Greece wants $236 billion in German World War II reparations

[freshwest]

46. They behave as if they are self-sufficient though. I suggest it's their reluctance to fight with...

whatever version of Koch types they've had going on there for some time.

But they shouldn't be let off the hook if they took the money at fair terms. Because allegedly (as I said, not European) that money came from the pockets of the Germans, et al, in the EU who work and pay in high taxes, and weren't part of the Third Reich nor did they benefit from it.

AFAIK, the allegation that 'debt is a scam' is based on the idea the Allies didn't have billions of dollars of debt from WW2. That's just wishful thinking, we're still paying for the damn thing. We nearly lost the war and as I've stated before after watching Ken Burns' Roosevelt series and reading up on it, FDR had to go to the money men and the oligarchs he called out with the much vaunted 'I welcome their hatred' quote. He saw that the USA was in danger of losing to Germany, and had to 'beg' them for help. They created the industrial production line that literally pulverized the Third Reich as they mobilized under FDR's leadership. Some anarchists say it wouldn't matter who won the war. I beg to differ.

IMO, there's scant difference in the utopia that Hitler thought he was creating and what ISIS is proposing. It was a utopian vision that met Ayn Rand's standards, with the Supermen ruling over disposable humanity and ISIS is the same animal as they seek to build their empire.

Because imperialism and empire don't have to be under the control of classical aristocrats as some idealogues would have us believe. Nor is it the vision of only the West. The meme that is anti-Western and anti-American is Exceptionalism rearing its ugly head. The world knew how to Empire, long before the British Empire was a gleam in some bloodline patriarch's eye.

It's the effect, not the label. What we see paraded as being the socialist label has no magic with me now, and I am a life long social democrat and think capitalism is a wasteful, immoral system. Yet in more than one case, we see the ones who say they are liberators are just scamming the people by telling them what they want to hear with words and stealing from them behind their backs like Putin. It is the Westerners who are most likely to fall for this, believing Communism was a change for people. It just transferred the wealth into other hands, although the dream persists that it really is the way to Equality. It was built on blood like every other empire was.

That was veering far off topic and not well expressed. However, the Greek 'moral' argument may hold weight within a world paradigm where those who lost wealth to empires like the Third Reich, are demanding they be repaid.

What I don't get is why, after all the talk, they are even in the EU. I fear the Greeks have bought into something that still isn't going to help, but is the same thing, under a new name.

All that being said, I don't think nations, any nation, lend to others out of altruism unless there are layers of that in play to keep from having another war. I think the USA and West has attempted to bribe its way out of having another WW2, or WW3. It may be that war is more the natural state than not.

These loans were not gifts. The nations that caterwauled about the Iraq War but lent money to the USA for it were expecting something in return. China is also getting ahead in different regions, none of their 'aid' is done out of love. And that is no slam on them, as they take from their own people to buy influence with other nations and expect a return for it.

I need more coffee or sleep, not sure which.