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MadHound

(34,179 posts)
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:57 PM Jan 2012

The flag as a fetish. [View all]

Periodically it comes around, somebody in the US burns a flag and lots of people, right, left and center, get all upset about desecration of the flag, calling for new laws, prosecution, or at least a good scolding of those who put did the torching. Lots of odes to the flag are printed and spoken, lots of vitriol is spewed, and all in all, a good time is had by all and things go back to normal, until the next time.

A bit of perspective is needed however.

First of all, what is the flag? In concrete terms, the flag is nothing more than cloth, stitched into a design that we all recognize. In short, it is a symbol, that's all. Burning a flag does not damage the country, it doesn't kill anybody, in fact the proper way to discard of an old flag is to. . .burn it.

Meanwhile Americans put the flag on everything, their cars, their heads, hell even their asses(and frankly I think putting a flag on your ass is more of a desecration than burning it). Yet despite using the flag as corporate propaganda, slapping it on our bottoms, using it as a condom(yes, you can get red white and blue rubbers), despite desecrating it in every form imaginable, people only get up in arms when we burn it.

What that says to me is that we've developed a fetish about the flag. Not as in some kinky sex fixation(though go to any adult toy store and you can find all kinds of patriotic flag toys), but rather in the sense that it has become some magic talisman that in many minds has actually taken the place of what it stands for. We have watched as our country has been taken away from us and given to the few, the elite. We have stood by as politicians of all stripes have shredded the Constitution, and continue to do so. But relatively little fuss is raised though these ongoing acts of destruction continue.

But burn a flag, oh the horror. Even though it is a Constitutionally accepted form of free speech, whenever the rare occasion arises where a flag is burned a huge uproar is raised. Some tsk-tsk that it makes a particular group look bad. Others demand even further destruction of the Constitution via an anti flag-burning amendment. Some even threaten death to those who perform such an act. All this uproar over a symbol, yet so little ruckus raised when what that symbol stands for is shredded, ripped or burned.

What a strange reversal that is, truly. It reminds me of another society where the flag became a fetish, Nazi Germany. There, every single flag was physically "blessed" by the original blood flag, the flag that flew and was bled on at the head of the beer hall putsch. No, I am not saying that we are Nazi Germany, or some sort of fascist nation. But the similarities between then and now in the way we fetishize the flag are indeed striking, striking and troubling.

For when you put more stock in a symbol than you do in what that symbol stands for it is a certain sign that your country, your society is in trouble. It is a sign that we have lost our way when we put more stock in defending a symbol from freedom of expression than actual freedom of expression itself. It means that we are traveling a path where symbol means more than substance, illusion is worth more than reality, that we are manipulated into false outrage over a piece of cloth, but unmoved when what that cloth stands for is desecrated.

So I say let the flag burn. Better a flag burning to make a point about our disappearing freedom than having it fly unscathed over a nation where there is no freedom. Rather than getting outraged about a symbol, it is time to take action over the outrages currently besetting our country. We have much more important issues to worry about than a perfectly legal form of free expression, we have the real thing, our country, to regain and restore to all of us.

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The flag as a fetish. [View all] MadHound Jan 2012 OP
Yes, let's burn more flags nobodyspecial Feb 2012 #1
Wow, I guess my point did a complete double backflip, right over your head MadHound Feb 2012 #2
And made a whooshing sounds when it did. SammyWinstonJack Feb 2012 #6
you seem to show up unionworks Feb 2012 #41
Well, some people like to watch fires burn, MadHound Feb 2012 #48
Freedom to commit an act of free expression does not mean freedom from criticism or rebuttal bluestateguy Feb 2012 #3
Have you ever put some thought into why somebody burns a flag? n/t MadHound Feb 2012 #5
I guess bluestateguy Feb 2012 #7
Actually, they do if one is dedicated to having an intelligent conversation. Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #11
The number of DUers decrying the burning of a piece of cloth while tacitly Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #9
No DUer is doing those things. You are inventing those positions all on your own stevenleser Feb 2012 #15
Really? Looking around here the past few years you could have fooled me MadHound Feb 2012 #18
No one on DU is talking about the evils of flagburning. That is YOUR strawman stevenleser Feb 2012 #23
Well despite your protestation, and loud protestation at that, MadHound Feb 2012 #25
could you provide a source mackattack Feb 2012 #27
Cool, then you can use it MadHound Feb 2012 #30
Well usually when you make an assertion mackattack Feb 2012 #36
Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #42
Were at downthread? mackattack Feb 2012 #47
Let me guess, you want to be spoonfed at dinner time too. MadHound Feb 2012 #50
I require my students to cite their sources mackattack Feb 2012 #51
Well sorry, but I'm not one of your students MadHound Feb 2012 #52
hmmm mackattack Feb 2012 #60
Obama is a Kenyan and a secret muslim mackattack Feb 2012 #63
He knows he is wrong. He really loves the strawman he created but cannot back it up stevenleser Feb 2012 #35
Nope, you are still not getting it. Try reading what people are saying instead of imputing opinions stevenleser Feb 2012 #28
Oh I get it, MadHound Feb 2012 #33
You are calling out nothing and no one but the strawman you created. thats why you cannot link to stevenleser Feb 2012 #37
Actually a perfect example just turned up downthread, check it out MadHound Feb 2012 #39
LOL, that person is not saying what you are hoping they are saying either. nt stevenleser Feb 2012 #43
Wow, you do have a comprehension problem don't you. MadHound Feb 2012 #45
Some people might be damning them, others like myself just dont give a damn one way or the other. cstanleytech Feb 2012 #77
Yes. Soooo many posts about the "stupid" move of a couple of dozen out of a couple of thousand. Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #70
Do you know what "tacitly" means? nt Bonobo Feb 2012 #20
If the concern is not over a piece of cloth, then all those professing concern would also Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #49
Or the flags thrown on the ground by cops nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #55
No, people can state an opinion on one issue without having to bring anything else into it. stevenleser Feb 2012 #57
Amazing, isn't it? I am stunned that those flag burners were not arrested, and that there was a sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #56
I've seen that opinion raised elsewhere. I really think Occupiers are too smart to do this. stevenleser Feb 2012 #62
Considering how the robo cops were grabbing people off the street and arresting them from sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #66
Personally, I am not univerally against storming government & private institutions. Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #74
I feel sick reading your post. I know what you are saying, and I too am outraged over what sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #75
(heart) I suggest that you don't leave. You have an amazing command of language Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #76
You're making things up. emilyg Feb 2012 #58
Nope. Not one of those who walked into City Hall, vandalized, stole a flag, burned it outside Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #65
This needs to be mentioned in an OP. backscatter712 Feb 2012 #73
Yes. The flag! The flag. Meanwhile our fellow citizens are being brutalized. Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #4
And you know what is even more ironic nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #8
"traveling a path where symbol means more than substance" whatchamacallit Feb 2012 #10
So, not an agent povocateur? joshcryer Feb 2012 #12
Are asking if I am one? n/t MadHound Feb 2012 #13
Nope. Tired of the people saying the flag burners are. joshcryer Feb 2012 #34
Cool, just wanted to get that cleared up MadHound Feb 2012 #44
Have the flag burners unionworks Feb 2012 #59
Yes, they have been arrested in other instances (trumped up charges). joshcryer Feb 2012 #67
It is a fetish. We used to call them the "flag people," sticking flags on RKP5637 Feb 2012 #14
You are missing the point. stevenleser Feb 2012 #16
I'm not just speaking to one poster's thread, MadHound Feb 2012 #19
I know you aren't, you are missing the point of the 'handwringers' stevenleser Feb 2012 #22
So there is a right way and a wrong way to deliver a message of protest? MadHound Feb 2012 #24
Yes, there are right ways and wrong ways to deliver messages of protest. stevenleser Feb 2012 #26
Don't be ignorant of our history MadHound Feb 2012 #29
What success? Westboro hasnt achieved any of their objectives! You want to Westboro-ize Occupy? stevenleser Feb 2012 #40
Of course they have, are you that foolish? MadHound Feb 2012 #46
Is there anything you actually do understand? I encourage you to talk about THOSE things. stevenleser Feb 2012 #53
I posted on the flag burning thread ... markpkessinger Feb 2012 #78
Well, what was the right way to deliver the message during the Civil Rights era? An awful sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #61
I'm a huge supporter of OWS. stevenleser Feb 2012 #64
Thank you and my apologies if I misunderstood you. sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #71
Very good point... markpkessinger Feb 2012 #79
Breast milk cheese? Have you seen this? Gorgomorgo Feb 2012 #17
And this is relevant to this thread how, exactly? MadHound Feb 2012 #21
How does this fit in with the topic being discussed? RKP5637 Feb 2012 #54
A lot of people think your position makes sense, but it doesn't. gulliver Feb 2012 #31
Speaking of not making sense. . . MadHound Feb 2012 #38
k&r n/t Kamikaze1 Feb 2012 #32
Everyone has the right to burn the flag. I reserve the right to call flag-burners cherokeeprogressive Feb 2012 #68
The flag is a piece of cloth. Fawke Em Feb 2012 #69
this issue seperates the progressives from the closet conservative love it or leave it" crowd nt msongs Feb 2012 #72
You're right, it is just a piece of cloth - but that doesn't mean . . . markpkessinger Feb 2012 #81
thank you, thank you! inna Feb 2012 #80
Burning a person in effigy does not damage the person, Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #82
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