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Prairie Gates

(3,067 posts)
29. Let me explain some of this from a Euro Football culture point of view
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 08:37 AM
Nov 10

A few points:

1. Maccabi Tel Aviv has perhaps the most disgusting racist ultras in European competition - Anyone who disputes this doesn't really understand ultra culture and shouldn't be taken seriously. Having the most racist ultras in Euro competition is also a very high bar, because you're going up against Lazio, AZ Alkmaar, and pretty much any team's ultras based in the former Yugoslavia. Hell, Ajax gets honorable mention in that table. Maccabi Tel Aviv are up there with the absolute worst. They are notorious for it.

2. Ultras have to be distinguished from ordinary "fans" (we call them supporters). Ultras (or what some would call "hooligans" ) are very nearly organized paramilitaries at this point. Ordinary fans wear kits and scarves and are usually relatively clueless about the ultra conflicts in the offing.

When I first heard this story, I thought it was about fights between Ajax ultras and Maccabi Tel Avi ultras, primarily because both groups are up for it and both are extremely violent. It was notable that several Israeli officials insisted that this wasn't a story about what they called "supporter culture," a euphemism for ultra crime and fighting. I wasn't so sure.

It seems like what happened here is hard to explain unless groups 1 and 2 are distinguished and given their own stories. I have no doubt that the Maccabi Tel Aviv ultras were acting like racist asshats in Amsterdam. I also think that both Tel Aviv ultras AND ordinary fans were drawn into the fight. The attacks of group 1 do not, of course, justify the attacks on group 2. It's kind of a metaphor in that way, no? Anyway, this is where a correct and reasonable discussion of what happened can start.

You left out the cheap shot at President Biden. Mosby Nov 9 #1
I figured some folks would focus on that instead of what actually happened in Amsterdam, so excerpted just the salient WhiskeyGrinder Nov 9 #2
What does focusing on what actually happened have to do with this story? Beastly Boy Nov 9 #8
There is this. Eko Nov 9 #3
Yeah, I can clearly see the half dozen or so hardened hooligans in this picture Beastly Boy Nov 9 #6
Yeah I didn't say that. I specifically didn't say that. I specifically said this wasn't evidence for the rest at all. Eko Nov 9 #9
Let me rethink that... Beastly Boy Nov 10 #16
Thx Mosby Hekate Nov 11 #80
I can't figure out how some 60 masked peaceful pro-Palestinian protesters were arrested for Beastly Boy Nov 9 #4
It's pretty obvious to me JustAnotherGen Nov 9 #5
Maybe some context from this Jewish Israeli politician in the Knesset will help vanessa_ca Nov 10 #28
Good on the Knesset member who represents 6% of Israelis on the extreme left of the political spectrum. Beastly Boy Nov 10 #32
Hadash hold 5 seats Israeli Nov 11 #52
I see it more as Israel's democrats losing our country. Beastly Boy Nov 11 #55
And the Israeli media? As usual: approaches, hides, and distorts reality in the service of the authorities. Israeli Nov 11 #50
Easy there, zimmy. Iggo Nov 11 #78
"Death to the Arabs". AloeVera Nov 9 #7
You know Israel likes dump right? Eko Nov 9 #10
Only 17% of Israelis supported Harris for Pres??! AloeVera Nov 9 #12
Nah, we have to keep supporting them on their Eko Nov 9 #14
Are you American ??? Israeli Nov 11 #51
Yup, I am an American. Eko Nov 11 #73
Welcome to my world Israeli Nov 13 #82
Ha thanks. Eko Nov 13 #83
Why would Democrats get upset with what what non-voting Israelis 5000 miles away think, rather than Beastly Boy Nov 10 #19
I have news for you... choie Nov 10 #26
What a coincidence! Beastly Boy Nov 10 #27
That's 22% fucking stupid asses choie Nov 10 #36
Not to disagree with you, but how does this relate to Beastly Boy Nov 10 #38
50% of Catholics, 60% of Protestants voted for that criminal. Mosby Nov 10 #46
So do American Muslims. Beastly Boy Nov 9 #13
So that makes which one good? Eko Nov 9 #15
you tell me. Beastly Boy Nov 10 #17
Did I not ask you? Eko Nov 10 #20
Watch me ignore your endless bickering: Beastly Boy Nov 10 #22
Watch all of us see you not answering a easy question. Eko Nov 10 #25
American muslims showed themselves as single issue voters. Mosby Nov 10 #47
I think their answer will be obvious choie Nov 10 #37
That could be totally right, Eko Nov 10 #18
No, silly, the conversation is about the antisemitic attack by supporters of Palestine against supporters of a friggin Beastly Boy Nov 10 #21
I mean, dump sign? Israels supprt for dump? Eko Nov 10 #24
I will take a wild guess and say Beastly Boy Nov 9 #11
Great post malaise Nov 10 #31
Assaulting an Arab cab driver, tearing down Palestinian flags, racist chants, vandalism... Rob H. Nov 10 #23
...as 60 alleged assilants of a cab driver ended up in a hospital with serious injuries, including knife wounds. Beastly Boy Nov 10 #34
63 people were arrested, about 30 suffered light injuries, and five were treated Rob H. Nov 10 #39
Dutch authorities, including King Wilhelm-Alexander, described the attacks as antisemitic. Beastly Boy Nov 10 #41
10 Israelis were injured, according to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. AloeVera Nov 10 #48
If they were locals, they were all Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters. Beastly Boy Nov 10 #49
It's surprising more locals weren't injured Rob H. Nov 11 #56
Everyone should watch this video. AloeVera Nov 11 #68
Let me explain some of this from a Euro Football culture point of view Prairie Gates Nov 10 #29
THIS malaise Nov 10 #45
Good report malaise Nov 10 #30
Sky News reported on it, accurately at first Rob H. Nov 10 #33
... and then, for no reason, changed their minds and decided to report outright lies... Beastly Boy Nov 10 #35
This person actually lives in the Netherlands Rob H. Nov 10 #40
So do the Mayor of Amsterdam and the King of Netherlands, I suspect. Beastly Boy Nov 10 #43
That's shocking. I used to think Sky News was a trustworthy source. Mr. Sparkle Nov 11 #53
FAFO racist assholes. ZonkerHarris Nov 10 #42
This just in: Violent hominids behave according to their nature misanthrope Nov 10 #44
Good report here malaise Nov 11 #54
all sources deny that the Jewish supporters misbehaved or brought aggression upon themselves" Mosby Nov 11 #57
De Telegraaf is a right-wing tabloid Rob H. Nov 11 #60
So what? Mosby Nov 11 #63
Right-wing sources aren't permitted here Rob H. Nov 11 #70
That's not accurate Mosby Nov 11 #72
Calling out racism and bigotry, sure Rob H. Nov 11 #81
Hamas supporters attacked Jews leaving Noa Kirel's concert in New York City last night. Mosby Nov 11 #58
Trumps steal has emboldened racists peregrinus Nov 11 #74
Yes, and just because it's starting with Jews Mosby Nov 11 #75
Is this kid a racist? Are all Jews legitimate targets? Mosby Nov 11 #59
The "Jew Hunt" was planned days before. Mosby Nov 11 #61
The "Jew Hunt" is starting in Begium Mosby Nov 11 #62
Amazon employee Alfaisal Al Khaledi shockingly defends the antisemitic pogroms Mosby Nov 11 #64
Richie Torres on the Pogrom Mosby Nov 11 #65
AIPAC is his biggest donor Rob H. Nov 11 #71
The antisemitic mob also beat up women Mosby Nov 11 #66
New info Mosby Nov 11 #67
This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Nov 11 #69
Riots have broken out again in Amsterdam tonight Mosby Nov 11 #76
Amsterdam Mayor Femke Halsema.... Mosby Nov 11 #77
The horrifying videos just keep coming out of Amsterdam Mosby Nov 11 #79
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