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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
65. Indeed, Sir
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 10:16 AM
Apr 2020

There are libertarian anarchists of several stripes, but the libertarian socialist is a rare bird indeed.

The fact is most who identify with 'Bernie' are at bottom nihilists, attracted by the hope of 'burning it all down'. This is a feeling people on the leftmost tail of the political bell-curve share with people on the rightmost tail of the political bell-curve.

Socialism really is not compatible with nihilism, and it is very hard for a nihilist to be a socialist.

At bottom, Socialism is simply the view that what a society produces ought to belong to the society, and not to private parties who superintend facets of its production, and appropriate to themselves a disproportionate quantity of the society's produce. It does not, and never has, meant either autocratic state control or diveying up everything into equal shares. Nor does it require destruction of anything. In fact it seeks to take over what already exists, and direct in a different manner.

Capital, the surplus of what is produced over what its production costs, is the engine that drives new economic activity, and would do so whether it was administered by public or private means. Humans being involved, one can expect log-rolling and sharp practice in any case, but with public administration, however contrived within a democratic polity, it ought to be more difficult for a few individuals to extract value in greatly disproportionate share from society's capital.

Marxism is something different. Marxism is a particular theory of how socialism will emerge from capitalism. Marx saw this as something which would inevitably occur as industrialization reached its peaks, producing of necessity a trained and regimented work-force, who would be subjected to extreme penury owing the concentration of capital in ever fewer hands, and who would come to understand they actually controlled the mines and factories, etc., on which capitalism's profits depended. This he supposed would occur first in countries like England and Germany, France and Belgium. Nothing of the sort happened, and a variety of people enchanted by the theory, and its promise success was inevitable, set about trying to figure out ways to redeem the promise. Lenin's view was that imperial expansion was what was delaying the inevitable emergence of socialism, and he conceived further the idea that establishment of socialism by revolution might be achieved through forcing accelerated development of a backward, largely feudal society such fin de siecle Russia. At this point it should be obvious that Lenin's program had little to do with the original ground of Marxism, and as Orwell observed, 'one does not establish a dictatorship to preserve a revolution, one makes a revolution to establish a dictatorship'.

People once steeped deeply in Marxism have a hard time letting it go, and it is Sanders Marxist background inclines me firmly against him. He continued in Marxist belief well into middle age, and that to my mind indicates questionable judgement, to put it mildly. He seems to have still at that time accepted the equation of socialism with Marxism, and so have taken states established on the bastardized pseudo Marxism of Lenin and Mao as genuinely socialist states, which again calls his judgement into serious question.



"It is nonsense to suppose what benefits the greater portion of society would be injurious to its whole." (Adam Smith)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Who is Joe Rogan? True Blue American Apr 2020 #1
White nationalist who has a podcast other white nationalists like. HarlanPepper Apr 2020 #66
He's a comedian....he's in character? This is for laughs, right? OAITW r.2.0 Apr 2020 #2
Rogan was never voting for Sanders anyway...operation chaos. Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #29
yes the "proud boys" are a racist un-American thugs rockfordfile Apr 2020 #70
Yes they are...scum. Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #74
Joe says it is comedy but it is more than that...very angry guy...and he gave the Proud boys Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #68
I am not surprised Gothmog Apr 2020 #3
South Carolina GOP Leaders Plot to Boost Bernie Sanders in Dem Primary TomCADem Apr 2020 #37
Hmmm BidenBacker Apr 2020 #38
Not very Bright, Bright. sheshe2 Apr 2020 #51
That's what's wrong with this country BidenBacker Apr 2020 #4
ROFL Sloumeau Apr 2020 #6
I found it on Twitter mcar Apr 2020 #7
Mellow out, mcar BidenBacker Apr 2020 #9
Well OK then mcar Apr 2020 #12
Peace BidenBacker Apr 2020 #13
... mcar Apr 2020 #19
Surprise! Joe Rogan is still a slimeball! :) nt Sloumeau Apr 2020 #5
Even if what he says were true genxlib Apr 2020 #8
Exactly! PatSeg Apr 2020 #16
Just think what a kick-ass administration Joe could have BidenBacker Apr 2020 #17
I can just imagine PatSeg Apr 2020 #32
Just think how much that would piss Trump off if Joe did that BidenBacker Apr 2020 #33
Yes PatSeg Apr 2020 #36
Excellent job qualification. sheshe2 Apr 2020 #52
Sanders lost AOC in part because of Rogan. TwilightZone Apr 2020 #10
That's what I read, too. It wasn't a big a deal as the BS campaign Cha Apr 2020 #22
Typical person in the Bernie camp. William769 Apr 2020 #11
Remember all the excitement among Sanders supporters when Rogan endorsed Bernie? FelineOverlord Apr 2020 #14
Well the BS campaign embraced it. Cha Apr 2020 #21
Yup! peggysue2 Apr 2020 #23
One Nina Turner seemed especially excited about the Joe Rogan Cha Apr 2020 #31
Lest we forget... sheshe2 Apr 2020 #53
Right.. cenk got run over with so much Cha Apr 2020 #55
Cenk hit a huuuge wave. sheshe2 Apr 2020 #56
lol@4% WIPE OUT! Don't Mess With US DEMS, cenk.. Cha Apr 2020 #57
Lol!!!! sheshe2 Apr 2020 #58
.. Cha Apr 2020 #59
Love ya sheshe2 Apr 2020 #60
But Berniebros are a myth...nt SidDithers Apr 2020 #15
A pretty persistent group of myths, aren't they? mcar Apr 2020 #20
The myth has been busted! NurseJackie Apr 2020 #24
My kids favorite show back in the day mcar Apr 2020 #47
Hubby liked it. I learned to appreciate it. NurseJackie Apr 2020 #49
Misogynist racists vote Trump. No surprise. LizBeth Apr 2020 #18
Nothing he's done surprises me... NurseJackie Apr 2020 #25
Sanders holds about 30%. 15% will vote Trump. How many won't vote? It isn't Democrats supporting LizBeth Apr 2020 #26
Ummm sheshe2 Apr 2020 #54
Rogan is an independent jorgevlorgan Apr 2020 #27
Usually Independents are in the middle of the political spectrum BidenBacker Apr 2020 #30
an independent is anybody that does not vote party line. jorgevlorgan Apr 2020 #34
Politically most Independents are not extremists BidenBacker Apr 2020 #35
Independents voted for Trump in 2016. jorgevlorgan Apr 2020 #39
Independents split in 2016, with Trump having a slight edge. TwilightZone Apr 2020 #41
absolutely right. jorgevlorgan Apr 2020 #44
Fascists aren't independent. Fascism is right-wing. Fascists are traitors rockfordfile Apr 2020 #73
Independents BidenBacker Apr 2020 #42
Not really rockfordfile Apr 2020 #72
We don't need them Just_Vote_Dem Apr 2020 #75
Nope. TwilightZone Apr 2020 #40
Right you are, TZ BidenBacker Apr 2020 #43
That actually isn't the case. It's a wildly held incorrect belief. Gore1FL Apr 2020 #45
Is it true this rogan guy had racist "proud boys" on his show? rockfordfile Apr 2020 #71
Completely unsurprised by this. morillon Apr 2020 #28
oe Rogan says the democratic party has made us all feel like morons by rapidly.. Cha Apr 2020 #46
If Sanders' socialism flips people to Trump kcr Apr 2020 #64
Indeed, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #65
Joe Rogan endorsed Bernie only to fuck with Democrats la-trucker Apr 2020 #48
But 'Bernie', He's A Political Genius! A Freakin' Wizard! The Magistrate Apr 2020 #50
lol la-trucker Apr 2020 #63
Meanwhile Bernie stands idly by and let's his goons do the dirty work. BlueIdaho Apr 2020 #61
You bet. Rogan's a populist rabblerouser with a big following, Hortensis Apr 2020 #62
I believe this excitement and the ad hurt Sanders with progressives like AOC, AA voters, LGBTQ and Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #67
That's a good point mcar Apr 2020 #69
He's just another Bernie Bro who won't vote for Biden. n/t zackymilly Apr 2020 #76
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