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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: In under the wire... I am still very angry with Bernie Sanders [View all]Gothmog
(154,181 posts)34. The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected
Sanders.
Sanders was soundly rejected by three key groups in the base of the Democratic Party. Sanders was rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino voters and got less than 43% of the vote in the primaries The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected him. Sanders was rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino votes. Sanders did not come close to getting enough votes.
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/a-message-for-hardcore-bernie-stans/
Hillary Cinton won the nomination because of democracy. She received more than 57% of Democratic votes cast. Bernie Sanders virtually only won caucuses, which are the least democratic aspect of the primary process. And most of those he won only because she decided to save her money for the General election. He won very few primaries, except for his home states and Michigan and his clock was cleaned in virtually every other state that mattered. Demographically, he only won white liberals. The fact that YOU think he made it close, or only lost because of Super Delegates is a hallmark of your delusion. Bernie Stans largely didnt seem to notice that she reached out to you repeatedly and you bit her hand off, making you more like Republicans than you should be comfortable with.
Sanders could not win the popular vote and was in the process only due to caucuses. The claim that the DNC fixed the primary process is wrong http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
Easily the most ridiculous argument this year was that the DNC was some sort of monolith that orchestrated the nomination of Hillary Clinton against the will of the people. This was immensely popular with the Bernie-or-Busters, those who declared themselves unwilling to vote for Clinton under any circumstances because the Democratic primary had been rigged (and how many of these people laughed when Trump started moaning about election rigging?). The notion that the fix was in was stupid, as were the people who believed it.
Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the partys nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldnt figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.....
According to a Western European intelligence source, Russian hackers, using a series of go-betweens, transmitted the DNC emails to WikiLeaks with the intent of having them released on the verge of the Democratic Convention in hopes of sowing chaos. And thats what happenedjust a couple of days before Democrats gathered in Philadelphia, the emails came out, and suddenly the media was loaded with stories about trauma in the party. Crews of Russian propagandistsworking through an array of Twitter accounts and websites, started spreading the story that the DNC had stolen the election from Sanders. (An analysis provided to Newsweek by independent internet and computer specialists using a series of algorithms show that this kind of propaganda, using the same words, went from Russian disinformation sources to comment sections on more than 200 sites catering to liberals, conservatives, white supremacists, nutritionists and an amazing assortment of other interest groups.) The fact that the dates of the most controversial emailsMay 3, May 4, May 5, May 9, May 16, May 17, May 18, May 21were after it was impossible for Sanders to win was almost never mentioned, and was certainly ignored by the propagandists trying to sell the primaries were rigged narrative. (Yes, one of them said something inappropriate about his religious beliefs. So a guy inside the DNC was a jerk; that didnt change the outcome.) Two other emailsone from April 24 and May 1were statements of fact. In the first, responding to Sanders saying he would push for a contested convention (even though he would not have the delegates to do so), a DNC official wrote, So much for a traditional presumptive nominee. Yeah, no kidding. The second stated that Sanders didnt know what the DNCs job actually waswhich he didnt, apparently because he had not ever been a Democrat before his run.
Bottom line: The scandalous DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clintons, fed into the misinformation.
In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.
Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the partys nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldnt figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.....
According to a Western European intelligence source, Russian hackers, using a series of go-betweens, transmitted the DNC emails to WikiLeaks with the intent of having them released on the verge of the Democratic Convention in hopes of sowing chaos. And thats what happenedjust a couple of days before Democrats gathered in Philadelphia, the emails came out, and suddenly the media was loaded with stories about trauma in the party. Crews of Russian propagandistsworking through an array of Twitter accounts and websites, started spreading the story that the DNC had stolen the election from Sanders. (An analysis provided to Newsweek by independent internet and computer specialists using a series of algorithms show that this kind of propaganda, using the same words, went from Russian disinformation sources to comment sections on more than 200 sites catering to liberals, conservatives, white supremacists, nutritionists and an amazing assortment of other interest groups.) The fact that the dates of the most controversial emailsMay 3, May 4, May 5, May 9, May 16, May 17, May 18, May 21were after it was impossible for Sanders to win was almost never mentioned, and was certainly ignored by the propagandists trying to sell the primaries were rigged narrative. (Yes, one of them said something inappropriate about his religious beliefs. So a guy inside the DNC was a jerk; that didnt change the outcome.) Two other emailsone from April 24 and May 1were statements of fact. In the first, responding to Sanders saying he would push for a contested convention (even though he would not have the delegates to do so), a DNC official wrote, So much for a traditional presumptive nominee. Yeah, no kidding. The second stated that Sanders didnt know what the DNCs job actually waswhich he didnt, apparently because he had not ever been a Democrat before his run.
Bottom line: The scandalous DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clintons, fed into the misinformation.
In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.
I was a delegate to the national convention and I saw much of this silliness first hand. Ignoring that Hillary Clinton got 3.7 million more votes than Sanders does not help your case
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That's shallow as hell. Eco omic justice for all is good for america. If you want to shit on that
dionysus
Jan 2017
#2
What the fuck good is economic justice if we have a nuclear war or if someone as
Eliot Rosewater
Jan 2017
#6
90% of Bernie supporters voted proudly for Clinton.. I was one of them.. We NEED move on now, and
secondwind
Jan 2017
#115
I don't blame Bernie, but I do hold a grudge at those progressives who refused to vote for Hillary
still_one
Jan 2017
#133
Not enough, especially young voters. Bernie's attacks hurt their views of Hillary,
pnwmom
Jan 2017
#155
+1, this is the FACT that Sanders, M$M and Sanders supporters wont admit too... HRC Young vote was
uponit7771
Jan 2017
#161
You must have a fucked up idea of utopia. Please detail what you abhor so much. I'm dying to hear it
dionysus
Jan 2017
#16
My identity as a black woman fighting for the rights of those who look like me
bravenak
Jan 2017
#40
Aside from maybe suggesting the use of paragraphs, you think he's racist, don't you?
dionysus
Jan 2017
#42
I think he is a throw back to the split between economic justice and social justice in the late
bravenak
Jan 2017
#44
Not so at all. She got 3 million more votes, remember? Are you purposely ignoring the elephant in ..
brush
Jan 2017
#19
Sanders was a very weak general election candidate who would have been destroyed in the general
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#26
You know you post this constantly and without fail people pretend they don't know those points...
JHan
Jan 2017
#73
As the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it."
George II
Jan 2017
#107
The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#34
Sanders was in the race for media and was rejected by Jewish, Latino and African American voters
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#38
Still preferred them, and until we have actual politicians in power promoting them, we cant
Eliot Rosewater
Jan 2017
#21
Exactly how many how many new/magical voters did Sanders need for his proposals?
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#41
I think if the campaign and their surrogates made the primary campaign about...
Hassin Bin Sober
Jan 2017
#30
You must have responded in the wrong place or didn't read my post. Try again.
Hassin Bin Sober
Jan 2017
#32
No, i responded and assumed you were criticizing Hillary's campaign, not Bernie's
Eliot Rosewater
Jan 2017
#39
Nah, bullshit point. Bernie's a sitting Senator. HRC is a private citizen.
emulatorloo
Jan 2017
#134
I am sure you will still be allowed to trash Bernie once this forum is closed down.
m-lekktor
Jan 2017
#25
Whats she supposed to say? She doesnt hold office anywhere currently and anything she says against
cstanleytech
Jan 2017
#145
It sure did help Donald Trump. It was over a year of slamming the party without being
R B Garr
Jan 2017
#53
Sanders claimed that the DNC rigged the process and Trump ran with this bogus claim
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#77
I thought that there were emails showing some of the DNC leadership were working against Bernie?
cstanleytech
Jan 2017
#147
The DNC had nothing to do with Sanders being soundly rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#168
Umm I'm not making any case for Bernie here I am simply asking a question.
cstanleytech
Jan 2017
#180
Don't be angry at Bernie because it will keep you from seeing who he really is
underthematrix
Jan 2017
#37
You felt it? and a comment that I said he shits on people's hearts?? mmmmmkay...
boston bean
Jan 2017
#47
Nonsense. It was his right to run, and he's not the one who stole this election.
tenorly
Jan 2017
#50
Even though I disagree with you I understand your frustration. This was a hard and bitter election
NWCorona
Jan 2017
#58
I feel exactly the same way..but we have to move on...what else can we do?..nt
asuhornets
Jan 2017
#59
Yes. . .campaigning with her after the convention is worse than calling her a nasty woman
Feeling the Bern
Jan 2017
#86
Yes, I see it too. But, I guess finger pointing is easier than mirror looking.
Feeling the Bern
Jan 2017
#112
I see a bunch of revisionist history that is erasing the negative campaign Weaver ran for NY
emulatorloo
Jan 2017
#138
Bernie's not the devil. Nor is HRC, despite your half-truths and innuendo.
emulatorloo
Jan 2017
#148
Nope. I am backing out of this flamebait thread. This entire thread should have been
Feeling the Bern
Jan 2017
#150
Even though I believe his refusal to concede helped weaken Hillary a little against Trump
cstanleytech
Jan 2017
#82
I am actually upset that he pulled his punches. If he had gone after the email scandal full throttle
yodermon
Jan 2017
#85
Actually, in 2008 she announced that she would be suspending her campaign less than 24 hours
StevieM
Jan 2017
#119
No one can handle being torn down consummately by anyone. It always takes down numbers and
uponit7771
Jan 2017
#164
I am angry at those progressives who refused to vote for Hillary in the general election.
still_one
Jan 2017
#132
Thats their right though but they like those who voted for Trump will have to learn to
cstanleytech
Jan 2017
#144
Anger doesn't even begin to describe my contempt. The constant ridiculing of the only viable....
Tarheel_Dem
Jan 2017
#154