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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: And the 2016 Ralph Nader Award Goes to Bernie Sanders - Time.com [View all]Gothmog
(154,181 posts)148. You are wrong yet again
We lost the 2000 election due to Nader and his stupidity re are some facts on this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html
Nader-voters who spurned Democrat Al Gore to vote for Nader ended up swinging both Florida and New Hampshire to Bush in 2000. Charlie Cook, the editor of the Cook Political Report and political analyst for National Journal, called "Florida and New Hampshire" simply "the two states that Mr. Nader handed to the Bush-Cheney ticket," when Cook was writing about "The Next Nader Effect," in The New York Times on 9 March 2004. Cook said, "Mr. Nader, running as the Green Party nominee, cost Al Gore two states, Florida and New Hampshire, either of which would have given the vice president [Gore] a victory in 2000. In Florida, which George W. Bush carried by 537 votes, Mr. Nader received nearly 100,000 votes [nearly 200 times the size of Bush's Florida 'win']. In New Hampshire, which Mr. Bush won by 7,211 votes, Mr. Nader pulled in more than 22,000 [three times the size of Bush's 'win' in that state]." If either of those two states had gone instead to Gore, then Bush would have lost the 2000 election; we would never have had a U.S. President George W. Bush, and so Nader managed to turn not just one but two key toss-up states for candidate Bush, and to become the indispensable person making G.W. Bush the President of the United States -- even more indispensable, and more important to Bush's "electoral success," than were such huge Bush financial contributors as Enron Corporation's chief Ken Lay.
All polling studies that were done, for both the 2000 and the 2004 U.S. Presidential elections, indicated that Nader drained at least 2 to 5 times as many voters from the Democratic candidate as he did from the Republican Bush. (This isn't even considering throw-away Nader voters who would have stayed home and not voted if Nader had not been in the race; they didn't count in these calculations at all.) Nader's 97,488 Florida votes contained vastly more than enough to have overcome the official Jeb Bush / Katherine Harris / count, of a 537-vote Florida "victory" for G.W. Bush. In their 24 April 2006 detailed statistical analysis of the 2000 Florida vote, "Did Ralph Nader Spoil a Gore Presidency?" (available on the internet), Michael C. Herron of Dartmouth and Jeffrey B. Lewis of UCLA stated flatly, "We find that ... Nader was a spoiler for Gore." David Paul Kuhn, CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer, headlined on 27 July 2004, "Nader to Crash Dems Party?" and he wrote: "In 2000, Voter News Service exit polling showed that 47 percent of Nader's Florida supporters would have voted for Gore, and 21 percent for Mr. Bush, easily covering the margin of Gore's loss." Nationwide, Harvard's Barry C. Burden, in his 2001 paper at the American Political Science Association, "Did Ralph Nader Elect George W. Bush?" (also on the internet) presented "Table 3: Self-Reported Effects of Removing Minor Party Candidates," showing that in the VNS exit polls, 47.7% of Nader's voters said they would have voted instead for Gore, 21.9% said they would have voted instead for Bush, and 30.5% said they wouldn't have voted in the Presidential race, if Nader were had not been on the ballot. (This same table also showed that the far tinier nationwide vote for Patrick Buchanan would have split almost evenly between Bush and Gore if Buchanan hadn't been in the race: Buchanan was not a decisive factor in the outcome.) The Florida sub-sample of Nader voters was actually too small to draw such precise figures, but Herron and Lewis concluded that approximately 60% of Florida's Nader voters would have been Gore voters if the 2000 race hadn't included Nader. Clearly, Ralph Nader drew far more votes from Gore than he did from Bush, and on this account alone was an enormous Republican asset in 2000.
Nader's stupidity gave bush the win in 2000. Ignoring Nader's stupidity is wrong
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And the 2016 Ralph Nader Award Goes to Bernie Sanders - Time.com [View all]
factfinder_77
Jan 2017
OP
Sanders also claimed that the election process was rigged and Trump quoted him
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#101
no, he offered unrealistic promises based on simplistic solutions which appeals to large numbers of
Bill USA
Jan 2017
#170
Three strikes was supposed to be for violent felons and the GOP took it further ...
bettyellen
Jan 2017
#9
Oh gosh no. Bernie gave ammunition to the same folks who STILL are saying
Eliot Rosewater
Jan 2017
#152
Hogwash. Your hobby of making Sanders out to be a greedy money-grubbing opportunist is pathetic
ThirdEye
Jan 2017
#85
Right. According to him, bernie has to have suitcases of dirty cash stashed somewhere...
dionysus
Jan 2017
#89
The OP is mostly BS. Sanders attacks had an effect but Hillary still won the pop. vote by 3 million
brush
Jan 2017
#56
Not only is it BS. It's the same dog whistle narrative we've been hearing for 2 months.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#72
Utterly ridiculous. Clearly you have not seen his schedule. He busted his ass on the trail for her,
JudyM
Jan 2017
#137
The OP is promoting the same narrative Bernie supporters have been pushing since the election.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#94
Shout loudest + throw tantrums + don't see any bumper stickers they think they are the majority. T
factfinder_77
Jan 2017
#14
The guy who wrote this, Gil Troy, wrote one book called "Hillary Clinton, Polarizing First Lady"
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
#12
It's pertinent that the man has an anti-progressive bias of VERY long standing
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
#83
Yet he's promoting the same narrative that DU posters have been promoting for 2 months.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#84
It's NOT that the party should stop talking about race or talk about it less
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
#141
Contrary to your assertions, Sanders policies are not that popular in the real world
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#150
Whatever else, you can never underestimate the influence Comey had on this election
world wide wally
Jan 2017
#16
That article is full-on love fest for Bill's campaigning and policies when in office. I'm sorry but
JCanete
Jan 2017
#19
we so far right right now with our new leader (DUMP) Bill Clinton looks like a radical leftist.
boston bean
Jan 2017
#130
If you actually elaborate here, some of us will actually read it. It won't be in vain, I promise. nt
JCanete
Jan 2017
#173
The OP is promoting the same narrative Bernie supporters have been pushing since the election.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#71
It isn't that Bernie's positions on various issues are unpopular or wrong. Here's the problem:
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#107
we've had this discussion before, or at least we've been conversing about it in the same threads,
JCanete
Jan 2017
#109
seriously? this is a message board and people are discussing things. I'm talking about in THIS
JCanete
Jan 2017
#120
Thanks for the conversation. This won't be up much longer, so I know you may not have the time to
JCanete
Jan 2017
#165
thanks again for the discourse! Just to answer G really quick, because I think this is important.
JCanete
Jan 2017
#167
I'll just say quickly, that if that is the root, then you would have to be suggesting that we
JCanete
Jan 2017
#171
but as to human nature where does racism get placed? What fundamental itch is it scratching?
JCanete
Jan 2017
#177
O.K., I read that. I agree with all of it and I think the candidate I backed in the primaries
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
#158
Issues matter and Bernie's had broad cross-over appeal. Many Dems felt his issues mattered a great
JudyM
Jan 2017
#138
You got to be kidding-no one in the real world believe in those silly match up polls
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#123
Sanders was treated with kid gloves by the Clinton campaign and there was a ton of material
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#160
Polls suggest a majority support for his economic stances, but bigotry gets in the way.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#169
I think Hillary would have lost the pop vote outright if she tacked center like this.
forjusticethunders
Jan 2017
#44
It's the same narrative Bernie supporters have been promoting since the election.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#74
Sanders' agenda failed because it had no chance of being adopted in the real world
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#121
This is absolutely true. Bernie distracted Democrats with his attacks on them.
R B Garr
Jan 2017
#52
He didn't distract her. He simply never stopped fanning the flames of division.
NCTraveler
Jan 2017
#55
Ahh this one again from November. Must be running out of anti-Bernie pieces so we need repeats! nt
m-lekktor
Jan 2017
#58
It's the same narrative Bernie supporters have been promoting since the election.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#70
But of course... certain parties here at DU realize their Sanders bullshit is about to shelf expire.
Raster
Jan 2017
#79
Simplistic, and totally ignoring the numerous voter suppression tactics employed by the GOP.
guillaumeb
Jan 2017
#76
What a load of horse shit. "He pushed her too far left to prevent an effective recentering"
dionysus
Jan 2017
#87
All I know is I've heard a whole lot of people voted for Trump only because they disliked Hillary.
Vinca
Jan 2017
#92
Yeah, its obvious the Democratic party wants to continue it's long slide into ignominy
Arazi
Jan 2017
#93
After the first paragraph I had to LMOA--Really now? Bernie hurt Clinton's chances? Ugh! n/a
vaberella
Jan 2017
#174
This is just counterproductive and serves no purpose other than to divide and conquer.
AgadorSparticus
Jan 2017
#178