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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: The Root: Pipe Down, Bernie Sanders [View all]Gothmog
(154,181 posts)276. I like the real world and for me Sanders' platform was not realistic and was based on a "revolution"
I live in a deep red state and so I am faced with the real world on a daily basis. A number of Sanders proposals sounded great but they were not realistic in the real world. Sanders based his unrealistic proposals on a mythical voter revolution where millions/billions/trillions of new voters would magically appear and somehow forced the GOP to be reasonable. That revolution exists only in a fantasy world and has not been evident in the real world http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/articles/2016-04-15/bernie-sanders-bad-delegate-math-and-fantasy-revolution
He went on to argue that he's going to win because he'll pile up votes now that the contest has moved out of the Deep South. This is a shorthand version of an argument that Sanders and his allies have been deploying recently in an attempt to downplay Clinton's lead in pledged delegates "having so many Southern states go first kind of distorts reality" he told Larry Wilmore, host of "The Nightly Show," earlier this week.
There's a lot wrong with this formulation, as Paul Krugman wrote in The New York Times this morning. It suggests a world view redolent of former half-term Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's toxic pandering to "real America." In Sanders' case, he's saying that red-state Democrats should be discounted because they're too conservative. But that's simply wrong, Krugman notes: Clinton isn't "riding a wave of support from old-fashioned Confederate-flag-waving Dixiecrats," she ran up the score by scoring lopsided victories among black voters ("let's be blunt, the descendants of slaves," he writes).
And the fact that the Deep South is conservative should be irrelevant, given that Sanders argues the principle obstacle to his super progressive agenda is campaign finance corruption rather than, say, ideology. Either he's leading a national movement, as he claims, or he's not.
Thus more broadly, his attempt to delegitimize a swath of voters lays bare a fundamental inconsistency of the Sanders campaign: One of his basic answers about how he's going to accomplish his aims whether winning the Democratic nod, winning the general election or enacting his agenda is the forthcoming revolution. His super-ambitious agenda will prove to be achievable substance rather than unicorns-and-rainbows fantasy, he said Thursday night, "when millions of people stand up, fight back and create a government that works for all of us, not just the 1 percent. That is what the political revolution is about. That is what this campaign is about."
And that's fine: If he can summon the revolution, then more power to him, literally and figuratively. But the Sanders revolution is breaking on the hard realities of math. The revolution will not be televised, the old song goes; but it can be fantasized and it can be measured, in votes and delegates. And in every calculable respect, it's coming up short. That leaves Sanders to bank on an anti-democratic sleight of hand to secure the nomination. That's not a broad-based revolution; that's a palace coup.
There's a lot wrong with this formulation, as Paul Krugman wrote in The New York Times this morning. It suggests a world view redolent of former half-term Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's toxic pandering to "real America." In Sanders' case, he's saying that red-state Democrats should be discounted because they're too conservative. But that's simply wrong, Krugman notes: Clinton isn't "riding a wave of support from old-fashioned Confederate-flag-waving Dixiecrats," she ran up the score by scoring lopsided victories among black voters ("let's be blunt, the descendants of slaves," he writes).
And the fact that the Deep South is conservative should be irrelevant, given that Sanders argues the principle obstacle to his super progressive agenda is campaign finance corruption rather than, say, ideology. Either he's leading a national movement, as he claims, or he's not.
Thus more broadly, his attempt to delegitimize a swath of voters lays bare a fundamental inconsistency of the Sanders campaign: One of his basic answers about how he's going to accomplish his aims whether winning the Democratic nod, winning the general election or enacting his agenda is the forthcoming revolution. His super-ambitious agenda will prove to be achievable substance rather than unicorns-and-rainbows fantasy, he said Thursday night, "when millions of people stand up, fight back and create a government that works for all of us, not just the 1 percent. That is what the political revolution is about. That is what this campaign is about."
And that's fine: If he can summon the revolution, then more power to him, literally and figuratively. But the Sanders revolution is breaking on the hard realities of math. The revolution will not be televised, the old song goes; but it can be fantasized and it can be measured, in votes and delegates. And in every calculable respect, it's coming up short. That leaves Sanders to bank on an anti-democratic sleight of hand to secure the nomination. That's not a broad-based revolution; that's a palace coup.
You are welcomed to support Sanders but some of us have to live in the real world. Sanders platform turned me off in that it was based on a revolution that was unlikely at best. Clearly the millions/billions/trillions of new voters that sanders promised never showed which is why he lost so badly in the primary. It is hard to take Sanders positions seriously when such positions all require a political revolution that has not materialized and will not materialize.
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So we cant complain about him but he can complain about us. Got it. He's more important
bravenak
Jan 2017
#11
It keeps him on the front page and groups keep paying to have him speak.
redstatebluegirl
Jan 2017
#242
That's what I'm telling him. Walk the walk. Can't learn from anybody if he's the one doing all
bravenak
Jan 2017
#34
Speaking of "walk the walk", have we heard a single word in defense of Rep. John Lewis...
George II
Jan 2017
#66
Yes -- you obviously just chose not to see his statement. It was posted on this site
KPN
Jan 2017
#206
I "chose" not to see it? Before I said anything about it I checked his website. Not there (yet)
George II
Jan 2017
#212
Substantive is in the eye of the beholder. As for "woulda, coulda, shoulda", perhaps....
George II
Jan 2017
#226
Didn't the polling data suggest that the more Bernie campaigned, more POC voted for him?
aikoaiko
Jan 2017
#73
With all that's coming out about the ruskies cyber-hacking and perhaps more than that...
LenaBaby61
Jan 2017
#187
This is the answer, too much hurt feelings and distrust left over from this election
Eliot Rosewater
Jan 2017
#81
He is trying to help fix a party that has been GUTTED all over the country at every level!
RBInMaine
Jan 2017
#285
Identity politics are like the most important thing along with political correctness and things of
bravenak
Jan 2017
#244
And once again, black people and other minorities are the MOST reliable members
forjusticethunders
Jan 2017
#273
He can fight for progressive goals without fighting the Dem party. Fight the effin repugs...
brush
Jan 2017
#153
Well said. I don't disagree other than the anti-war bit but I'll leave that alone.
tecelote
Jan 2017
#65
Definitely too much conflict between factions. We need to emphasize working together more.
randome
Jan 2017
#67
Would you be welcoming someone who keeps bad-mouthing you? It works both ways.
randome
Jan 2017
#202
But Sanders has not joined the Democratic Party and is running for re-election as an indie
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#250
I like the real world and for me Sanders' platform was not realistic and was based on a "revolution"
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#276
Nobody ever called him racist. It was called tone deaf. And the point stands with his anti PC
bravenak
Jan 2017
#10
There are good reasons why Sanders is not appealing to African American and other voters
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#97
As you noted, you were in the minority of the African American community on this issye
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#131
I got to meet Congressman Lewis iniatially because of my work in voter protection
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#220
I dispute your contention that only a "minuscule" number of DUers posted on JPR.
yardwork
Jan 2017
#194
Strange how so many have nothing to say about Russian hacking or Donald's Russian support
UCmeNdc
Jan 2017
#31
He could start with stop smearing allies of the left who disagree with him on minor points.
JHan
Jan 2017
#55
examples of smearing people who disagree with him on minor points, please, particularly as
JCanete
Jan 2017
#230
your first post was rehashing. These 13 dems didn't have a minor disagreement. nt
JCanete
Jan 2017
#232
In the interest of "transparency", the bombastic title is "Shut Up Bernie Sanders" (not my title)
George II
Jan 2017
#62
So, you are saying that because Sanders ran a campaign to win the election...
Talk Is Cheap
Jan 2017
#89
Sanders claimed that the system was rigged and Trump quoted Sanders on numerous occassions
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#134
Yes, he did help Trump win, and thank you for your factual links and contributions
R B Garr
Jan 2017
#193
Posts critical of Bernie never get removed, OTH,posts critical of Corey Booker do.
m-lekktor
Jan 2017
#127
if you haven't been paying attention, there has been a great consolidation of wealth in the pockets
JCanete
Jan 2017
#144
Unnuanced articles that simply want to make one of the voices of the left/center-left bad or wrong,
JCanete
Jan 2017
#136
Your neener-neener posts don't change the fact that Bernie lost the primary. Sorry,
R B Garr
Jan 2017
#256
Such a failed message that he was invited to participate in yesterday's tribute to MLK, Jr...
SMC22307
Jan 2017
#259
EVERYONE was invited to commemorate MLK day. It's a national holiday set aside
R B Garr
Jan 2017
#264
Well, none of us are SENATORS on this board, so it's a silly analogy to ask why
R B Garr
Jan 2017
#272
The Church is described as a "favorite" of politicians. Seriously, it fits the pattern that you
R B Garr
Jan 2017
#280
Yes, he's done quite an about-face on identity politics now that he can get media attention
R B Garr
Jan 2017
#257
Did the Root cheer for Joe Lieberman when he consistantly stabbed Dems in the back?
Larkspur
Jan 2017
#254
FDR was the first Democratic Presidential candidate to win the majority of black
Larkspur
Jan 2017
#261