2016 Postmortem

JHB

(37,566 posts)

38. There were many, many contributing factors, and with the margin so thin...

Wed Jan 18, 2017, 08:12 AM

Jan 2017

Last edited Thu Jan 19, 2017, 02:29 PM - Edit history (2)

...there's an argument to be made for ANY of them to be "the" reason we lost the EC and a howler monkey will be sworn in on Friday. Some were immediate to the election, some are longer-term strategic blind spots and bad calls.

They all deserve examination, but harping on any one of them to the exclusion of the others will just perpetuate the dysfunction.

And hey, let's not absolve the "responsible Republicans" who voted for Johnson just because they "could not vote for that woman." Both the Libertarian and Green parties got about 3x as many votes as they did in 2012 (L's a little more, G's just under). Assuming the swell was from the "rRs" for the Ls and the "Or Busts" (who'd already parted with Bernie) for the Gs, there were over 3 times as many Republicans who let Trump into office just out of spite and swallowing all the horseshit about Hillary promulgated by conservatives than there were strident lefties who effectively did much the same.

But hey, why would the author of the Time column look there when he'd have to pass up an opportunity to grind an axe, one whose fumes Time's audience can be pretty comfortable sniffing.

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And the 2016 Ralph Nader Award Goes to Bernie Sanders - Time.com [View all] factfinder_77 Jan 2017 OP

Bernie DISTRACTED Hillary! HassleCat Jan 2017 #1

Damn that Bernie Jake Stern Jan 2017 #8

No, The Systems Not Totally Rigged. But That Idea Sure Helped Donald Trump. Gothmog Jan 2017 #46

Primary accusations always can be used in the general election -- karynnj Jan 2017 #62

Sanders also claimed that the election process was rigged and Trump quoted him Gothmog Jan 2017 #101

Both Clinton and Sanders worked for the nominee after the primaries ended. karynnj Jan 2017 #103

I was a delegate to the national convention Gothmog Jan 2017 #106

I know how the Vermont delegates were chosen karynnj Jan 2017 #108

Under DNC rules the candidate has the right to approve or reject delegates Gothmog Jan 2017 #111

More like Hey you Corporatist! WhiteTara Jan 2017 #63

no, he offered unrealistic promises based on simplistic solutions which appeals to large numbers of Bill USA Jan 2017 #170

Really on a roll ain't ya.. pangaia Jan 2017 #2

Yeah no one wants to face this but.... bettyellen Jan 2017 #3

The result would have been exactly the same Ken Burch Jan 2017 #6

Three strikes was supposed to be for violent felons and the GOP took it further ... bettyellen Jan 2017 #9

+1 betsuni Jan 2017 #10

That was how they sold it... Wounded Bear Jan 2017 #11

Post removed Post removed Jan 2017 #13

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2017 #57

Has Sanders changed his FEC filing to run as a Democrat for Senate in 2018? Gothmog Jan 2017 #59

It's what it was- and GOPers changed the laws... bettyellen Jan 2017 #20

Oh gosh no. Bernie gave ammunition to the same folks who STILL are saying Eliot Rosewater Jan 2017 #152

no one want to face fact THAT BERNIE HARDLY CAMPAIGNED FOR HILLARY. trueblue2007 Jan 2017 #25

Sanders was in the democratic race for media coverage and money Gothmog Jan 2017 #48

Hogwash. Your hobby of making Sanders out to be a greedy money-grubbing opportunist is pathetic ThirdEye Jan 2017 #85

Right. According to him, bernie has to have suitcases of dirty cash stashed somewhere... dionysus Jan 2017 #89

It's also anti-Semitic af Arazi Jan 2017 #91

Have you bought his latest book yet? Gothmog Jan 2017 #98

The OP is mostly BS. Sanders attacks had an effect but Hillary still won the pop. vote by 3 million brush Jan 2017 #56

Not only is it BS. It's the same dog whistle narrative we've been hearing for 2 months. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #72

+1000. I bet she took her foot off the gas in a few states she thought he R B Garr Jan 2017 #116

Utterly ridiculous. Clearly you have not seen his schedule. He busted his ass on the trail for her, JudyM Jan 2017 #137

The primaries hurt her a lot, but Bernie eventually jump in Alice11111 Jan 2017 #126

He campaigned for her quite a bit. thesquanderer Jan 2017 #180

yep. boston bean Jan 2017 #39

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2017 #54

I agree with this bravenak Jan 2017 #4

I also agree with the analysis in the OP Gothmog Jan 2017 #47

It's certainly truth bravenak Jan 2017 #80

The OP is promoting the same narrative Bernie supporters have been pushing since the election. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #94

heck I'll beg along with you in that case. JHan Jan 2017 #95

I know thats right bravenak Jan 2017 #114

I would support Hillary Clinton if she ran for POTUS again Gothmog Jan 2017 #147

Put me in the long line that says bull$hit. CentralMass Jan 2017 #5

Shout loudest + throw tantrums + don't see any bumper stickers they think they are the majority. T factfinder_77 Jan 2017 #14

It is anyone's turn. CentralMass Jan 2017 #37

Exactly! Duppers Jan 2017 #18

Post removed Post removed Jan 2017 #7

The guy who wrote this, Gil Troy, wrote one book called "Hillary Clinton, Polarizing First Lady" Ken Burch Jan 2017 #12

Thanks. Figures. Duppers Jan 2017 #17

shhhhh! Locrian Jan 2017 #31

That doesn't really address his argument treestar Jan 2017 #69

It's pertinent that the man has an anti-progressive bias of VERY long standing Ken Burch Jan 2017 #83

Yet he's promoting the same narrative that DU posters have been promoting for 2 months. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #84

It's NOT that the party should stop talking about race or talk about it less Ken Burch Jan 2017 #141

Contrary to your assertions, Sanders policies are not that popular in the real world Gothmog Jan 2017 #150

Thank you! MelissaB Jan 2017 #110

Thanks. Good point. nt riderinthestorm Jan 2017 #136

Centrist think they should be in charge, oops. Rex Jan 2017 #140

This narrative is bull shit no matter which side it comes from. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #15

Whatever else, you can never underestimate the influence Comey had on this election world wide wally Jan 2017 #16

That article is full-on love fest for Bill's campaigning and policies when in office. I'm sorry but JCanete Jan 2017 #19

You talk like Bill Clinton was worse than bush and trump. boston bean Jan 2017 #41

Yep Gothmog Jan 2017 #50

no I don't. That's a hell of a leap, made without a lick of evidence. nt JCanete Jan 2017 #97

No, that wasn't what that person said. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #128

we so far right right now with our new leader (DUMP) Bill Clinton looks like a radical leftist. boston bean Jan 2017 #130

That isn't even the point. Yes, Trump is to the right of Bill Clinton. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #133

No that is not the case. And I DISAGREE! boston bean Jan 2017 #134

If you actually elaborate here, some of us will actually read it. It won't be in vain, I promise. nt JCanete Jan 2017 #173

You are wrong yet again Gothmog Jan 2017 #148

The OP is promoting the same narrative Bernie supporters have been pushing since the election. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #71

We agree the narrative is bullshit. JCanete Jan 2017 #102

It isn't that Bernie's positions on various issues are unpopular or wrong. Here's the problem: Garrett78 Jan 2017 #107

we've had this discussion before, or at least we've been conversing about it in the same threads, JCanete Jan 2017 #109

Read Paul Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers LanternWaste Jan 2017 #117

seriously? this is a message board and people are discussing things. I'm talking about in THIS JCanete Jan 2017 #120

I don't have much time, so I'll have to keep this short. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #155

Thanks for the conversation. This won't be up much longer, so I know you may not have the time to JCanete Jan 2017 #165

I have a free moment to respond. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #166

thanks again for the discourse! Just to answer G really quick, because I think this is important. JCanete Jan 2017 #167

And, see, I think racism *is* the root. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #168

I'll just say quickly, that if that is the root, then you would have to be suggesting that we JCanete Jan 2017 #171

I think it's the root of why people vote against their class interests. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #175

but as to human nature where does racism get placed? What fundamental itch is it scratching? JCanete Jan 2017 #177

Here's the problems with that response Ken Burch Jan 2017 #135

I didn't say Sanders advocated not fighting racism. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #153

O.K., I read that. I agree with all of it and I think the candidate I backed in the primaries Ken Burch Jan 2017 #158

Then I Suppose The 2016 Al Gore Award Goes To... chwaliszewski Jan 2017 #21

And the 2016 Iran Hostage Crisis Award goes to Comey... JHB Jan 2017 #26

All sorts of things to point fingers at... chwaliszewski Jan 2017 #30

There were many, many contributing factors, and with the margin so thin... JHB Jan 2017 #38

Comey is pond scum and lacks any professional or other ethics Gothmog Jan 2017 #149

Thanks factfinder Cha Jan 2017 #22

Hillary was entitled to the nomination and Bernie jg10003 Jan 2017 #23

Or Democrats wanted Hillary WhiteTara Jan 2017 #65

Ignoring for a moment any possible unfairness during the primaries ThirdEye Jan 2017 #86

This is more about the way he did it treestar Jan 2017 #68

"Clean issue oriented campaign" UNTIL New York. Scorched earth after that emulatorloo Jan 2017 #129

Can't say Bernie HELPED get a strong nominee to the top of the ticket SticksnStones Jan 2017 #24

Issues matter and Bernie's had broad cross-over appeal. Many Dems felt his issues mattered a great JudyM Jan 2017 #138

Post removed Post removed Jan 2017 #27

Fake Progressivism ushered in Trump. delisen Jan 2017 #32

Republicans were the isolationist, America First crowd before PH Cooley Hurd Jan 2017 #35

Burton Wheeler-D Montana, David Walsh-D MA, Key Pittman,D-Nv delisen Jan 2017 #43

This otohara Jan 2017 #53

I agree WhiteTara Jan 2017 #66

More like fake progressives. nt JTFrog Jan 2017 #33

My sentiments exactly. n/t Lil Missy Jan 2017 #28

A lot wrong with this article, some right. Tortmaster Jan 2017 #29

(1a) So was Johnson, in a sense JHB Jan 2017 #40

K&R n/t JTFrog Jan 2017 #34

Unlike Nader, Bernie's name was NOT on the GE Ballot. PotatoChip Jan 2017 #36

Bernie Sanders was on the ballot and unperformed Clinton Gothmog Jan 2017 #60

Hmmm... spammm.... dionysus Jan 2017 #90

Facts are not span unless facts scare you Gothmog Jan 2017 #96

uh... kenfrequed Jan 2017 #115

You got to be kidding-no one in the real world believe in those silly match up polls Gothmog Jan 2017 #123

Absurd kenfrequed Jan 2017 #156

Sanders was treated with kid gloves by the Clinton campaign and there was a ton of material Gothmog Jan 2017 #160

Another comically bad op-ed kenfrequed Jan 2017 #161

Sanders does not have a good record at all and would have been destroyed Gothmog Jan 2017 #162

Democrats would be insane to nominate Sanders Gothmog Jan 2017 #125

Dana Milbank? kenfrequed Jan 2017 #157

Sanders was not vetted by the press and would have been a weak candidate Gothmog Jan 2017 #159

Eichenwald writes a fishwrap kenfrequed Jan 2017 #163

More discussion of the Fishwrap of Eichenwald kenfrequed Jan 2017 #164

You have been cutting and pasting the same opinions (not facts) dionysus Jan 2017 #118

Ignoring the facts will not make the facts false Gothmog Jan 2017 #122

Believing an opinion doesn't make it a fact. Op-eds are opinion. Nt dionysus Jan 2017 #131

Where are the millions/billions/trillions of new voters that Sanders promised Gothmog Jan 2017 #145

Facts are good things Gothmog Jan 2017 #143

Thank you for that, Gothmog.. valuble information like that can't Cha Jan 2017 #142

Sanders' proposals are not that popular Gothmog Jan 2017 #146

Polls suggest a majority support for his economic stances, but bigotry gets in the way. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #169

K&R. Paladin Jan 2017 #42

I think Hillary would have lost the pop vote outright if she tacked center like this. forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #44

It's the same narrative Bernie supporters have been promoting since the election. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #74

This is very true Gothmog Jan 2017 #45

Did Bernie hurt Hillary Clinton as she moved into the GE? Definitely NWCorona Jan 2017 #49

Actually Sanders and Nader have a great deal in common Gothmog Jan 2017 #61

Nader has things in common with a lot of elected Democrats NWCorona Jan 2017 #64

Do you tire of being wrong? Gothmog Jan 2017 #99

I don't think either of us are wrong but what ever NWCorona Jan 2017 #105

Sanders and his agenda was on the ballot in 2016 and that agenda failed Gothmog Jan 2017 #113

Why did it fail in 2016? I can't say for sure but it was a mix of things NWCorona Jan 2017 #119

Sanders' agenda failed because it had no chance of being adopted in the real world Gothmog Jan 2017 #121

I'm willing to give it time. NWCorona Jan 2017 #132

When will these millions/billions/trillions of new voter show up Gothmog Jan 2017 #144

K&R for truth Haveadream Jan 2017 #51

This is absolutely true. Bernie distracted Democrats with his attacks on them. R B Garr Jan 2017 #52

He didn't distract her. He simply never stopped fanning the flames of division. NCTraveler Jan 2017 #55

Ahh this one again from November. Must be running out of anti-Bernie pieces so we need repeats! nt m-lekktor Jan 2017 #58

It's the same narrative Bernie supporters have been promoting since the election. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #70

But of course... certain parties here at DU realize their Sanders bullshit is about to shelf expire. Raster Jan 2017 #79

Good analysis treestar Jan 2017 #67

Yeah, I remember when Nader campaigned for Gore killbotfactory Jan 2017 #73

I know, he really worked his ass off... Raster Jan 2017 #100

Lotta words, no data. Orsino Jan 2017 #75

Simplistic, and totally ignoring the numerous voter suppression tactics employed by the GOP. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #76

I think it's perfectly legitimate to have those debates in a primary BainsBane Jan 2017 #77

What a load of shit... I cannot wait until Friday, January 20.... Raster Jan 2017 #78

God I'm So Sick Of This Bullshit Z_California Jan 2017 #81

Let's accept this... tonedevil Jan 2017 #82

What a load of horse shit. "He pushed her too far left to prevent an effective recentering" dionysus Jan 2017 #87

History judges. yallerdawg Jan 2017 #88

All I know is I've heard a whole lot of people voted for Trump only because they disliked Hillary. Vinca Jan 2017 #92

Yeah, its obvious the Democratic party wants to continue it's long slide into ignominy Arazi Jan 2017 #93

this is the opinion of one columnist.. JHan Jan 2017 #127

Post removed Post removed Jan 2017 #104

"intimidated by Black Lives Matter"?! Fuck this guy. JustinL Jan 2017 #112

Well, wasn't Trump their "Person of the Year" so why not? flvegan Jan 2017 #124

Time also named Trump Person of the Year. Rex Jan 2017 #139

OFFS montanacowboy Jan 2017 #151

Wow. Glad 2016 Postmortem Forum is coming to an end. tecelote Jan 2017 #154

This article is plenty nasty and unfair to HRC as well. StevieM Jan 2017 #172

After the first paragraph I had to LMOA--Really now? Bernie hurt Clinton's chances? Ugh! n/a vaberella Jan 2017 #174

I'm sure the Repukes customerserviceguy Jan 2017 #176

This is just counterproductive and serves no purpose other than to divide and conquer. AgadorSparticus Jan 2017 #178

So the only way a Dem can win is to be a moderate Republican? thesquanderer Jan 2017 #179