2016 Postmortem

Gothmog

(154,889 posts)

10. The Demographics mentioned voted overwhelming against Sanders

Tue Jan 10, 2017, 04:18 PM

Jan 2017

You do realize that after Super Tuesday, the above mentioned demographic groups gave Hillary Clinton a lead in pledged delegates that Sanders had no chance of overcoming. That is very different from 2008. In addition, at the end of the process, Hillary Clinton had more than four times the lead in pledged delegates over Sanders compared to the lead that President Obama had over Hillary Clinton in 2008.

If the premise of this thread is that the Sanders wing of the party is predestined to control the Democratic party, then the votes of these demographic groups is indeed relevant. The facts doe not support the premise that the Sanders wing of the party is somehow predestined to control the Democratic Party. Given that Sanders lost the popular vote in 2016 by more than 3.7 million, this premise is not accurate.

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To Sanders supporters FROM a Sanders supporter: please stop saying Bernie should've got the nom. [View all] Ken Burch Jan 2017 OP

Well said, but also remember that what gets said on DU has absolutely nothing to do... TreasonousBastard Jan 2017 #1

The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected Gothmog Jan 2017 #2

That "rejected" framing is still loaded and silly. Orsino Jan 2017 #3

You don't actually read that Gish Gallop, do you? Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2017 #4

The Demographics mentioned voted overwhelming against Sanders Gothmog Jan 2017 #10

Hillary brought up the ghost Bobby Kennedy to justify why she was staying in the race in 2008 NWCorona Jan 2017 #13

That never happened. She wasn't even answering a question about whether she could still win. StevieM Jan 2017 #17

What are you talking about? She was talking about people trying to push her out of the race NWCorona Jan 2017 #19

Yes, and that was a long time ago! She dropped that "ghost of Bobby Kennedy" more than a month... George II Jan 2017 #33

I would think it's obvious to all but the diehard Bernie haters. NWCorona Jan 2017 #35

Then why bring up what she said more than a month before the convention, and a few days.... George II Jan 2017 #36

Like I said. To show that Hillary chose to stay in the race even tho the math was against her NWCorona Jan 2017 #39

And Sanders chose to stay in the race ONE MONTH LONGER for the same "reason"! George II Jan 2017 #43

Yes he did. It didn't bother me that Hillary stayed in either. In fact it pissed me off NWCorona Jan 2017 #46

Hillary herself has been quote gracious to bernie himself, and his camp. Nt dionysus Jan 2017 #99

Well, some people as sure as hell being sore winners... i remember when Obama came in and dionysus Jan 2017 #98

I don't know what you consider "modern times". former9thward Jan 2017 #67

That was 36 years ago. George II Jan 2017 #68

Wow, you're right! former9thward Jan 2017 #69

Politically speaking that was a very long time, and Kennedy got shredded for what he did. BUT.... George II Jan 2017 #71

You're right, people saw this in 1980: former9thward Jan 2017 #76

But Kennedy DID withdraw before the first ballot, Sanders waited until more than halfway through.... George II Jan 2017 #92

Sanders has been faithfully voting for Democratic leadership in the House and Senate former9thward Jan 2017 #93

I was not even born yet bravenak Jan 2017 #126

I was 33.............. George II Jan 2017 #128

A good age!! bravenak Jan 2017 #129

And Kennedy's actions help elect Reagan Gothmog Jan 2017 #73

Sanders' own wife admitted they stayed on because they hoped R B Garr Jan 2017 #78

In 2008 Hillary conceded the month before the convention. Bernie hung on pnwmom Jan 2017 #150

Come on pnwmom. We both know that those people never would have NWCorona Jan 2017 #161

Why don't you compare the time line of the 2008 vs. 2016 process Gothmog Jan 2017 #72

Again with the timeline? Is that all you have because you use use it ad nauseum NWCorona Jan 2017 #74

This isn't about Bernie anymore. It isn't about the primaries anymore. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #59

And yet, despite all the claims in your post Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #6

It's funny, isn't it? Tatiana Jan 2017 #9

"Sticking it to Trump"? Just yesterday he was lecturing Democrats that they should NOT do so. George II Jan 2017 #34

Always Warning Democrats Isn't He? otohara Jan 2017 #41

Ditto. George II Jan 2017 #44

That's fine but does the campaign get to shoulder some of the blame as well? NWCorona Jan 2017 #47

Sanders is busy selling books and is not attacking trump Gothmog Jan 2017 #64

I said somewhere else that he's starting to look more like Joe Lieberman every day. George II Jan 2017 #65

Oh fuck him for that. No wonder he's been so silent on Sessions and That piece of shit from Exxon! bettyellen Jan 2017 #81

Just wow! And what's Hillary been doing? InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2017 #154

She is NOT in the senate now. She ain't where you or Trump bettyellen Jan 2017 #158

Sanders is not immune to criticism... he needs to stay home too, as should all Dems. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2017 #164

He's everywhere now because he's selling a book. He was no where to be found lapucelle Jan 2017 #155

Sander is busy selling books-that is not the same as leadership Gothmog Jan 2017 #27

Keep telling yourself that Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #42

Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Jan 2017 #52

Gave 2 as Christmas gifts Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #54

It is too bad that Ellison's chances are zilch due to being a sanders puppet Gothmog Jan 2017 #55

Honestly, a seat at the table is fine - but not at the head... bettyellen Jan 2017 #82

It is no lock for Ellison, but unless things have changed, Schumer has endorsed him, and that does still_one Jan 2017 #86

The ADL and major fund raisers have objected to Ellison Gothmog Jan 2017 #89

I am aware of that Goth still_one Jan 2017 #94

"Hell of a way to sell books"? It worked on you. Twice. lapucelle Jan 2017 #160

You tell em... Bernie is the example all future Democratic candidates should follow. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2017 #156

Schumer knows exactly what to do with Sanders. lapucelle Jan 2017 #157

"de facto voice of the Democratic Party"? Who declared that? George II Jan 2017 #37

There is no factual support for this amusing claim Gothmog Jan 2017 #38

No evidence other than the fact Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #49

Sanders is selling books Gothmog Jan 2017 #56

Just like Trump? Headline grabbing is your criteria? Not mine. bettyellen Jan 2017 #83

The non-Democrat dominating the airwaves and social media is Trump, lapucelle Jan 2017 #159

While you were busy looking in the rear view mirror Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #40

How specifically has he "stepped up to fill the leadership vacuum"? And just what is that "vacuum"? George II Jan 2017 #45

With HRC out of the spotlight, and Obama days away from leaving office Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #48

So then, you can't be specific or cite one single act of "leadership". I see. George II Jan 2017 #51

Does yesterday's town hall, or his support at Standing Rock count? Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #53

Thanks! tecelote Jan 2017 #101

Surely you have some metrics from which you made those assumptions? --- George II Jan 2017 #91

Has Sanders commented on John Lewis yet? Gothmog Jan 2017 #103

There is no reason for you to have reposted that here. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #7

It's all the poster has left. NWCorona Jan 2017 #14

The Sanders wing is not destined to become the dominant faction in the Democratic Party Gothmog Jan 2017 #29

I didn't say it was "destined" and you know it. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #57

You are wrong yet again and you are trying to cover it up by changing OP Gothmog Jan 2017 #62

I didn't ever make that claim. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #84

What is so sad is that you think that anyone cares about the Sanders could win thread Gothmog Jan 2017 #100

You posted another response to this post showing you did care about such threads. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #108

No, I enjoy poking holes in the attempt at logic of these thread Gothmog Jan 2017 #110

amen HRC2020 Jan 2017 #21

We will need every vote we can get(and neither HRC nor Bernie will run again). Ken Burch Jan 2017 #85

As strident a Clinton supporter as I have been, there is zero chance she is going to be the nominee Grey Lemercier Jan 2017 #90

Indeed. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #96

Excellent post NastyRiffraff Jan 2017 #28

I see you have your cut and paste on your desktop ready dionysus Jan 2017 #97

Bernie supporter here as well, and totally agree. nt JCanete Jan 2017 #5

Thank you. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #8

IMHO, what hurt Bernie the most in the primaries was the vitriol by some of his still_one Jan 2017 #11

since the time I've been here, there's been vitriol on both sides, and that was pretty JCanete Jan 2017 #12

I guess the heckling of John Lewis, the hate mail to Planned Parenthood, and still_one Jan 2017 #18

I agree that some, not all, said horrible things Ken Burch Jan 2017 #20

I understand Ken, and that was my first comment, it was not meant to reopen the still_one Jan 2017 #23

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #60

You got to be kidding-the Clinton campaign treated Sanders with kid gloves Gothmog Jan 2017 #30

Are you going to keep this up until everyone even vaguely associated with the Sanders campaign Ken Burch Jan 2017 #61

Your rather amusing claim that both sides did this is false Gothmog Jan 2017 #63

Had a long post, but in the interest of not rehashing this erased it. To going forward. nt JCanete Jan 2017 #22

Then just to that point, that was the focus of my first comment, which was short still_one Jan 2017 #25

Give me a break melman Jan 2017 #88

I haven't seen any posts containing anti semitic remarks that received a lot of recommendations still_one Jan 2017 #95

The premise that the Sanders wing is destined to control the Democratic party is not true Gothmog Jan 2017 #15

I didn't say the Sanders wing was "destined" to take over the party. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #16

Ken you changed your op to cover up the fact that you used such language Gothmog Jan 2017 #70

"If we were" is NOT the same as "we are destined" Ken Burch Jan 2017 #75

The "No TPP" language was omitted from the platform in order not to embarrass a sitting Democratic lapucelle Jan 2017 #162

I admire President Obama, but he should have just withdrawn the proposal Ken Burch Jan 2017 #167

I agree with you about Obama and McAuliffe. lapucelle Jan 2017 #168

I don't know Goth. I suspect a good number of us, I know I have, edit a post because the phrasing still_one Jan 2017 #87

Well yes I still have resentment over how the nomination was handled mvd Jan 2017 #24

Great post Ken. Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #26

Thanks. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #79

Good points, you may want to send that to Sanders himself. Thank you. George II Jan 2017 #31

It is so hard to rise above isn't it? I kind of fell into that trap in this thread too. nt JCanete Jan 2017 #32

I am still thinking the majority will rule the DNC, it works better when the majority is in control. Thinkingabout Jan 2017 #50

This isn't Sanders v. Clinton Ken Burch Jan 2017 #58

And yet Sanders lost the primary by almost 4 million votes Gothmog Jan 2017 #66

Which, at this point, doesn't matter. 2016 is the past. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #77

I supported Hillary from start to finish CaliforniaLove Jan 2017 #80

I can't help but think to myself "damn, maybe if Sanders hadn't spend Fresh_Start Jan 2017 #102

True also CaliforniaLove Jan 2017 #106

The Sanders would have won threads are meaningless Gothmog Jan 2017 #104

Again, I'm arguing that Sanders people shouldn't be posting those threads anymore. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #107

You are using a rather weak straw man argument Gothmog Jan 2017 #109

There was no straw man in the OP. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #113

The OP was nothing but a straw man Gothmog Jan 2017 #114

The OP was directed AT Sanders supporters. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #118

Then do it on the Sanders page Gothmog Jan 2017 #125

It's enough to say that what was done re: PP and HRC and Lewis shouldn't have been done. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #119

If you look at the facts, sanders ran not to win the nomination but to get media coverage Gothmog Jan 2017 #124

Bernie wasn't mathematically eliminated on Super Tuesday. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #131

The math is the math-Sanders was really effectively eliminated on Super Tuesday Gothmog Jan 2017 #133

We're past that now. The math no longer matters. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #137

If your goal is unity, then stop using a straw man and address the issues set forth on this thread Gothmog Jan 2017 #146

Do you understand that I was asking people to STOP posting the threads you object to? Ken Burch Jan 2017 #149

I do not object to these threads because such threads are too silly to take seriously Gothmog Jan 2017 #153

Goth is stuck on repeat. Somebody has to do some debugging. nt JCanete Jan 2017 #111

Have you purchased Sanders latest book yet? Gothmog Jan 2017 #115

well don't make my case for me...nt JCanete Jan 2017 #117

I argue that the party should embrace what we stand for... HopeAgain Jan 2017 #105

If Sanders supporters want others to embrace Sanders Gothmog Jan 2017 #112

I addressed those in this thread. I said they shouldn't have been done. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #116

Except no one is talking about issues BainsBane Jan 2017 #121

How about HopeAgain Jan 2017 #122

We first need to tackle big money in politics... JHan Jan 2017 #136

That excludes Bernie BainsBane Jan 2017 #143

Sanders hosted DSCC retreats for financial sector donors when he ran for senate. lapucelle Jan 2017 #166

Some of us are. And Bernie isn't a presidential candidate now. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #123

And yet several of your fellow Sanders supporters want to claim that Sanders is the defacto ruler Gothmog Jan 2017 #134

I never SAID he or his supporters were destined or pre-destined and you know it. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #139

Then tell your fellow Sanders supporters that Sanders is not the defacto ruler of the party Gothmog Jan 2017 #141

I don't know who you're talking about BainsBane Jan 2017 #142

In my case BainsBane Jan 2017 #120

He had his moment in the spotlight. lapucelle Jan 2017 #165

Bernie could not even win the primary election. democratisphere Jan 2017 #127

I wasn't even addressing that. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #135

We lost fair and square. HassleCat Jan 2017 #130

Thanks for that. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #132

This message was self-deleted by its author CountAllVotes Jan 2017 #138

Likewise, I supported Sen Sanders... Docreed2003 Jan 2017 #140

Exactly. You get my intent here. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #144

Thank you! Docreed2003 Jan 2017 #148

I was a delegate to the national convention Gothmog Jan 2017 #145

I didn't suggest that sanders did everything he could at the convention... Docreed2003 Jan 2017 #147

BTW, all Clinton delegates were told/instructed to ignore the sanders delegates bad behavior Gothmog Jan 2017 #152

See what you did.... ciaobaby Jan 2017 #151

Republicans love it when we do our Fiddler on the Roof "Horse! Mule!" routine DFW Jan 2017 #163