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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Yes, Bernie Sanders would have beaten Trump, but the real question is [View all]Gothmog
(154,470 posts)86. Sanders was on the ballot in 2016 and under performed Clinton
This is a good article that demonstrates that Sanders would have under performed in the general election https://extranewsfeed.com/bernie-sanders-was-on-the-2016-ballot-and-he-underperformed-hillary-clinton-3b561e8cb779#.jbtsa3epl
Of course, this narrative ignores the facts that despite Clintons supposed flaws, she easily defeated Sanders in the primary via the pledged delegate count, that Sanders inability to convince minority voters doomed his campaign for the nomination, and that the attempt to use superdelegates to override the popular vote was an undemocratic power grab.
And the white workers whose supposed hate for corporate interests led them to vote for Trump? They dont seem upset that Trump has installed three Goldman Sachs executives in his administration. They dont seem to be angry that Trumps cabinet is the wealthiest in US history. And we havent heard any discontent from the white working class over Trump choosing an Exxon Mobil CEO for Secretary of State.
The devil is in the details, and at first glance, it is easy to see why so many people can believe that Bernie actually would have won. He got a great deal of positive media coverage as the underdog early on, especially with Republicans deliberately eschewing attacks on him in favor of attacks on Clinton. His supporters also trended younger and whiter, demographics that tend to be more visible in the media around election time. A highly energized and vocal minority of Sanders supporters dominated social media, helping him win online polls by huge margins.
But at some point, you have to put away the narrative and actually evaluate performance. This happens in sports all the time, especially with hyped up amateur college prospects before they go pro. Big time college players are often surrounded by an aura, a narrative of sorts, which pushes many casual observers to believe their college skills will translate to success on the next level. But professional teams have to evaluate the performance of these amateur players to determine if they can have success as professionals, regardless what the narrative surrounding them in college was. A college player with a lot of hype isnt necessarily going to succeed professionally. In fact, some of the most hyped up prospects have the most underwhelming performances at the next level. In the same vein, we can evaluate Sanders performance in 2016 and determine whether his platform is ready for the next level. Sanders endorsed a plethora of candidates and initiatives across the country, in coastal states and Rust Belt states. He campaigned for these candidates and initiatives because they represented his platform and his vision for the future of the Democratic Party. In essence, Bernie Sanders was on the 2016 ballot. Lets take a look at how he performed.
And the white workers whose supposed hate for corporate interests led them to vote for Trump? They dont seem upset that Trump has installed three Goldman Sachs executives in his administration. They dont seem to be angry that Trumps cabinet is the wealthiest in US history. And we havent heard any discontent from the white working class over Trump choosing an Exxon Mobil CEO for Secretary of State.
The devil is in the details, and at first glance, it is easy to see why so many people can believe that Bernie actually would have won. He got a great deal of positive media coverage as the underdog early on, especially with Republicans deliberately eschewing attacks on him in favor of attacks on Clinton. His supporters also trended younger and whiter, demographics that tend to be more visible in the media around election time. A highly energized and vocal minority of Sanders supporters dominated social media, helping him win online polls by huge margins.
But at some point, you have to put away the narrative and actually evaluate performance. This happens in sports all the time, especially with hyped up amateur college prospects before they go pro. Big time college players are often surrounded by an aura, a narrative of sorts, which pushes many casual observers to believe their college skills will translate to success on the next level. But professional teams have to evaluate the performance of these amateur players to determine if they can have success as professionals, regardless what the narrative surrounding them in college was. A college player with a lot of hype isnt necessarily going to succeed professionally. In fact, some of the most hyped up prospects have the most underwhelming performances at the next level. In the same vein, we can evaluate Sanders performance in 2016 and determine whether his platform is ready for the next level. Sanders endorsed a plethora of candidates and initiatives across the country, in coastal states and Rust Belt states. He campaigned for these candidates and initiatives because they represented his platform and his vision for the future of the Democratic Party. In essence, Bernie Sanders was on the 2016 ballot. Lets take a look at how he performed.
After looking at a number of races where sanders supported candidates under perform Hillary Clinton, that author makes a strong closing
If Sanders is so clearly the future of the Democratic Party, then why is his platform not resonating in diverse blue states like California and Colorado, where the Democratic base resides? Why are his candidates losing in the Rust Belt, where displaced white factory workers are supposed to be sympathetic to his message on trade? The key implication Sanders backers usually point to is that his agenda is supposed to not only energize the Democratic base, but bring over the white working class, which largely skews Republican. Universal healthcare, free college, a national $15 minimum wage, and government controlled prescription drug costs are supposed to be the policies that bring back a white working class that has gone conservative since Democrats passed Civil Rights. Sanders spent $40 million a month during the primary, and was largely visible during the general, pushing his candidates and his agenda across the country. The results were not good specifically in regards to the white working class. The white working class did not turnout for Feingold in Wisconsin, or for universal healthcare in Colorado. Instead, they voted against Bernies platform, and voted for regular big business Republicans.
Why did Sanders underperform Clinton significantly throughout 2016 first in the primaries, and then with his candidates and initiatives in the general? If Sanders platform and candidates had lost, but performed better than Clinton, than that would be an indicator that perhaps he was on to something. If they had actually won, then he could really claim to have momentum. But instead, we saw the opposite result: Sanders platform lost, and lost by much bigger margins than Clinton did. It even lost in states Clinton won big. What does that tell us about the future of the Democratic Party? Well, perhaps we need to acknowledge that the Bernie Sanders platform just isnt as popular as its made out to be.
Why did Sanders underperform Clinton significantly throughout 2016 first in the primaries, and then with his candidates and initiatives in the general? If Sanders platform and candidates had lost, but performed better than Clinton, than that would be an indicator that perhaps he was on to something. If they had actually won, then he could really claim to have momentum. But instead, we saw the opposite result: Sanders platform lost, and lost by much bigger margins than Clinton did. It even lost in states Clinton won big. What does that tell us about the future of the Democratic Party? Well, perhaps we need to acknowledge that the Bernie Sanders platform just isnt as popular as its made out to be.
Trump would have destroyed sanders in a general election contest.
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Yes, Bernie Sanders would have beaten Trump, but the real question is [View all]
mtnsnake
Jan 2017
OP
AA, Latinos, Jewish voters, etc? What did Weaver do to bring those voters to Bernie?
emulatorloo
Jan 2017
#120
The DNC had nothing to do with Sanders being soundly rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#88
Never again. He trashed the party all through the primaries and then wouldn't concede when beaten
brush
Jan 2017
#65
That was during the general in a debate with trump. Frankly, I have no problem with that.
brush
Jan 2017
#69
That's not how I remember it. But why did the Sanders campaign take the info, firewall or not?
brush
Jan 2017
#98
He was not in that debate, nor did he EVER debate Trump. Sanders lost the Primary ... remember?
Lil Missy
Jan 2017
#110
He was in the debate in Flint where Hillary was fed a question in advance.
Qutzupalotl
Jan 2017
#111
Donna has denied that actually...but when I heard the questions she supposedly
Demsrule86
Jan 2017
#147
It was obvious to any objective observer the games played over the debates.
Hassin Bin Sober
Jan 2017
#53
What happened to Russ Feingold, Zypher Teachout, and every Democrat running for Senate in those
still_one
Jan 2017
#11
Lets see, lost primary, zypher teachout and Russ feingold heavily endorsed by Bernie lost, and every
still_one
Jan 2017
#9
No, I am refuting the speculation of those who say Bernie would have won, and for those
still_one
Jan 2017
#23
Sorry, Hillary got more votes, and the bullshit from people like greg palast who falsely
still_one
Jan 2017
#38
well you think that all you want doesnt make it so. bernie is a socialist who said our taxes
Ohioblue22
Jan 2017
#16
Exactly. This attacking the Democrats who voted, Hillary supporters and the DNC
synergie
Jan 2017
#83
Thank you. And to Hillary's credit she didn't use the negative oppo research against Sanders, . . .
brush
Jan 2017
#100
They seem to spend more time bashing Democrats and Hillary than Trump, GOP or Putin.
synergie
Jan 2017
#118
I think you are over-thinking. Really - does the "republican base" give a shit who trump
jmg257
Jan 2017
#26
good point. and russ feingold lost to johnson by several percentage points, while Hillary lost
still_one
Jan 2017
#39
Young people stayed home in Wisconsin in the ge. You can't pin that on Bernie.
Hassin Bin Sober
Jan 2017
#50
Lol, I'm not "pinning" anything on Bernie. Just pointing out that OP's reasoning is faulty
emulatorloo
Jan 2017
#75
You are pretending the top of the ticket doesn't have a huge influence down ballot. Ridiculous
Hassin Bin Sober
Jan 2017
#81
The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#130
Fairy tales?? Hahaha, look who's talking, the matriarch of fairy tales and fables herself!
mtnsnake
Jan 2017
#64
Sure she did. That's why everyone's talking about President-elect Clinton, right?
mtnsnake
Jan 2017
#66
Would it have made a difference with both houses of Congress being republican?
no_hypocrisy
Jan 2017
#101
Understand what you are saying there. That said; I really do not think Clinton could have beaten a
Alekzander
Jan 2017
#104
There's nothing about Russia in my post, so either you meant to post that in a different thread
mtnsnake
Jan 2017
#135
You are desperately trying to hijack a thread again by getting it off subject.
mtnsnake
Jan 2017
#137