2016 Postmortem

nikto

(3,284 posts)

127. GOP is who stole it

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:49 AM

Jan 2017

Comey helped a bit, too.

The Russians?

Perhaps.

But evidence is still not public.
And that is empirical.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it especialy tragic when DEMOCRATS are at odds with empiricism.

Usually, it's GOPers and right-wingers who are.

But Neolib Dems, in a weird way, have joined their own parallel mirror-image club.

So depressing to see this happen to The Party.

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141 replies

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Highlight:

Naomi Klein: Neoliberalism is to blame ... [View all] rainy Jan 2017 OP

Seems to me Tavarious Jackson Jan 2017 #1

Great article. tecelote Jan 2017 #2

One more blind person describing the elephant... TreasonousBastard Jan 2017 #3

You wonder why Bill Clinton's truebluegreen Jan 2017 #11

Riiiight. And the partisan Republican Congress had nada to do with those bills, right? BlueCaliDem Jan 2017 #83

This is a complete misunderstanding of Clinton and the role of the President. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #135

No. It's a clear understanding of the role of the president - and his power, which is limited. BlueCaliDem Jan 2017 #136

Wow. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #137

OMG. A political novice. Now you sound (not saying you are) like a Republican. First you BlueCaliDem Jan 2017 #138

Faux News and Breitbart? OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #139

Basically, it is POLICY that counts, not messaging nikto Jan 2017 #4

you got it! rainy Jan 2017 #6

It's simple, really nikto Jan 2017 #13

People like that are in the Democratic Party for a couple of reasons -- Nay Jan 2017 #32

That's a very intelligent answer nikto Jan 2017 #47

I think it's because African Americans and others... Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2017 #45

One of FDR's biggest battles was getting the southern Democrats ... nikto Jan 2017 #53

Yep. Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2017 #57

You mean like free college for everyone when many graduate HS without bettyellen Jan 2017 #132

+ a brazillion truebluegreen Jan 2017 #12

This is so obvious to US, why isn't it obvious to everybody on this BBS? nikto Jan 2017 #15

I don't know. truebluegreen Jan 2017 #21

Wrong. It is about messaging. And about racism/sexism. And about Comey and Russia. DanTex Jan 2017 #23

You use the word, "Progressive" too loosely nikto Jan 2017 #49

No that person uses it just fine. You use it as if you own the term. You don't. nt stevenleser Jan 2017 #50

Unclear answer---Please explain nikto Jan 2017 #56

No reply. No content. No substance. nikto Jan 2017 #122

Very well started nikto. lastone Jan 2017 #65

Checkout my Progressive blog, you might like it ... nikto Jan 2017 #112

First of all "corporatist" doesn't mean what you think it means. DanTex Jan 2017 #79

+1000000 JHan Jan 2017 #80

Thank you, DanTex! Thank you for the eye-opening facts that too many on the left refuse to BlueCaliDem Jan 2017 #84

It's not purism --- that's just lazy thinking nikto Jan 2017 #109

Purists believe that their values are everyone's values. Purists believe that anything short of BlueCaliDem Jan 2017 #116

Post removed Post removed Jan 2017 #119

You are a good advocate ..... However Rilgin Jan 2017 #99

He didn't "quickly" abandon the public option. DanTex Jan 2017 #100

Own what his decision was Rilgin Jan 2017 #101

I will, happily. DanTex Jan 2017 #102

Yes he said he wanted it. That is different than fighting for it. Rilgin Jan 2017 #103

If you can explain to me how he was going to change Lieberman and Baucus's minds, please go ahead. DanTex Jan 2017 #105

Exactly Rilgin Jan 2017 #106

It wasn't a "sacrifice" because the public option was already dead. DanTex Jan 2017 #107

You try to too hard. Rilgin Jan 2017 #117

I guess it depends what one means by "fight". DanTex Jan 2017 #118

Excellent answer nikto Jan 2017 #124

Good, patient answer nikto Jan 2017 #121

Folks on this board have been hyper-sensitive about certain words for a while now nikto Jan 2017 #114

Yes, some of us prefer words to be used correctly and accurately. DanTex Jan 2017 #115

Post removed Post removed Jan 2017 #120

Name-calling instead of logical arguments. DanTex Jan 2017 #131

Centrists on DU sometimes call themselves Progressive. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #140

"If you went to HRC's website..." Docreed2003 Jan 2017 #63

I agree with you, messaging needs to be much better. DanTex Jan 2017 #72

These policies were on her website she kept referring to---That did a lot of good, didn't it? nikto Jan 2017 #110

Old-time Democrats like me will never accept today's more economically Conservative-leaning Party nikto Jan 2017 #113

Oh that Clinton "machine"- one would think Hillary had been president for the last 24 years delisen Jan 2017 #5

She's right, the left keeps moving to the right to get those donor dollars and now we have an rainy Jan 2017 #8

agreed... ewagner Jan 2017 #10

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nikto Jan 2017 #16

That simply is not true. Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #77

There is no proof they can not win, either. Exilednight Jan 2017 #89

Yeah ...Bernie lost the primary. Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #91

Bernie lost due to strategy, not because of his message. Exilednight Jan 2017 #104

He lost because the press didn't let the people hear his message. rainy Jan 2017 #134

+1! eom BlueMTexpat Jan 2017 #48

true quaker bill Jan 2017 #7

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nikto Jan 2017 #17

the problem is conservatism, not liberalism Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #27

Neoliberalism is an economic philosophy Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #54

Just because you don't like the word, doesn't mean the meaning is wrong; dionysus Jan 2017 #67

that's a fine definition... but it doesn't fit Hillary Clinton, as she often was called a neoliberal Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #70

I have no part in that debate. Nt dionysus Jan 2017 #71

They don't like it because IT APPLIES TO THEM nikto Jan 2017 #123

I love Naomi but this is a cheap argument. Neoliberalism is just a trendy term for the status quo Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #9

Ok. But "conservatism" has infiltrated the Democratic Party, truebluegreen Jan 2017 #14

Yup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nikto Jan 2017 #19

the New Deal died with Reagan... and liberal Democrats have a bad track record of getting elected Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #26

Yes there is a reason. truebluegreen Jan 2017 #28

am I right in assuming you think Sanders could have beat Trump? Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #29

I think almost anyone else would have beaten Trump. truebluegreen Jan 2017 #30

IMHO, NO Dem or Independent ... LenaBaby61 Jan 2017 #66

Agreed. Looking back on the Clinton administration, we can see that many Nay Jan 2017 #34

You really want to find the Democratic equivalent of Trump? ismnotwasm Jan 2017 #40

No, I want a democrat with some conviction and the ability to project it and convince others Nay Jan 2017 #68

The GOP spent years and billions convincing people... Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #76

Maybe I should have phrased it as "Dems SHOULD HAVE blah, blah, Nay Jan 2017 #81

Yes we do...and the states are most important now... Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #82

Intelligent answer nikto Jan 2017 #125

I agree on your feeling about the differing terms used nikto Jan 2017 #18

yes, a much better term! Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #25

You beat me to it re: the use of that word as Klein used it. stevenleser Jan 2017 #52

No she uses the term correctly Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #55

No, she doesn't. That's bullshit. It does not apply to Democrats. It MIGHT apply to Libertarians stevenleser Jan 2017 #59

that's my impression exactly Fast Walker 52 Jan 2017 #73

Bingo Boomer Jan 2017 #20

I'm with you nikto Jan 2017 #111

Yes, 1000 times, yes. This is what tacking to the center as corporatists has brought us. TonyPDX Jan 2017 #22

Right...because we have so much power...if you wanted to do that ...then electing Hillary was the Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #75

Great article! PatsFan87 Jan 2017 #24

So busy attacking the mythical "neoliberalism" - forgot to defend against the real live fascists. baldguy Jan 2017 #31

It's not mythical killbotfactory Jan 2017 #33

Noeliberals are Nazis & fascists? baldguy Jan 2017 #35

Right? ismnotwasm Jan 2017 #39

How the hell did you get that from my post? killbotfactory Jan 2017 #41

From your words. baldguy Jan 2017 #42

Yep, let's just pretend neoliberal economic ideas don't exist killbotfactory Jan 2017 #44

Let's just pretend that neoliberalism is EXACTLY THE SAME as Nazism. baldguy Jan 2017 #46

Take a deep breath, and listen...re-read the posts you are replying to Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #58

Nope, that person doesnt need to do anything. They understand the real meaning of the word. nt stevenleser Jan 2017 #60

It's just another variation of the RW "Democrats same as Republicans" bullshit. baldguy Jan 2017 #85

Agreed. And it's tiresome. These folks just need to specify what policies they want that they aren't stevenleser Jan 2017 #86

It is how a narrative works. Rex Jan 2017 #94

Funny the supposed "liberals" attacking mainstream Dems always seem to use RW talking points. baldguy Jan 2017 #108

It's mythical as used by Kline and many here and a poor substitute for actually making an argument stevenleser Jan 2017 #51

Trite and superficial, only to the uninformed Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #61

Intelligent response nikto Jan 2017 #126

Well, Wikipedia can be edited Fiendish Thingy Jan 2017 #62

K & R Duppers Jan 2017 #36

K & R! jalan48 Jan 2017 #37

Oh for Fucks sake what disingenuous bullshit ismnotwasm Jan 2017 #38

Racism Sexism and voter suppression are all real, and I think Klein should have framed her argument JCanete Jan 2017 #43

A basic problem in the Democratic party is that neoliberals and traditional call them New Deal PufPuf23 Jan 2017 #64

Some of them will never come around nikto Jan 2017 #128

"A good chunk of Trumps support could be peeled away if there were a genuine redistributive agenda Starry Messenger Jan 2017 #69

Trump does not have much support....he won Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #78

Trump didn't rig the system. The system is rigged in favor of Republicans over Democrats every time. JCanete Jan 2017 #87

Yes he did. He actively worked with Putin Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #92

If they hacked the machines I agree. If they offered up fake news...well that's a fucking drop JCanete Jan 2017 #93

This election was stolen. Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #97

but was it stolen by Russia or the GOP? if by the GOP, well they steal it just about every time JCanete Jan 2017 #98

GOP is who stole it nikto Jan 2017 #127

Catapulting Trumps propaganda..... not surprised we're seeing this again. bettyellen Jan 2017 #133

No naomi, you are to blame...and people like you who refused to support the only Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #74

Why are you digging up this hot take from seven weeks ago? Blue_Tires Jan 2017 #88

There will never be a shortage of people telling me who to blame. LanternWaste Jan 2017 #90

K&R Rex Jan 2017 #95

F'k Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nikto Jan 2017 #129

Klein milestogo Jan 2017 #96

Absolutely correct. Lunabell Jan 2017 #130

As usual, Klein gets it. My first non-Democratic vote ever 1996 for Greens. Clinton Republican-lite. snowy owl Jan 2017 #141