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BzaDem

(11,142 posts)
23. I disagree with part (though not all) of both points.
Sun Jan 1, 2017, 03:46 AM
Jan 2017

As far as point one goes, in a cause-and-effect sense, I think she does share some responsibility for the loss. She was the candidate, and strategic decision-making in a razor-close election could tip the election one way or the other. I could easily imagine a world where different decisions could have changed the outcome (though such decisions would not have been knowable prior to election day). As to the first part of the first point, I think it is silly to say she should not have been nominated.

As for the second part, I think Bernie definitely should have been allowed to run. But I also think he shares some responsibility for her loss. Bernie knew that Hillary was not "corrupt" in any reasonable sense of the word, and also knew that attacks implying otherwise would do nothing but hurt Hillary in the general election. Yet he went forward with such attacks with knowledge of the directionality of those consequences. This line of attack resulted in otherwise reasonable people parroting such attacks, which not only reduced enthusiasm for Hillary, but made Trump's dishonest attacks on Hillary more effective later in the fall. I could easily imagine a world where Hillary would have won absent such attacks, given that the election was decided by less than a point.

So both are partly responsible. I ultimately think Bernie's attacks deserve a bit more blame than Hillary's campaign decisions, since hindsight is always 20/20 with respect to campaign decisions (whereas Bernie knew at the time of his attacks that they would hurt her in the general, and chose to risk it anyway). But both her campaign decisions and his attacks were far from the only causes of the loss (given Comey, the media's obsession on emails, Russia's email hacking, etc). I think all reasonable causes should be on the table for discussion, so we can learn from the mistakes that were made.

Sure. yallerdawg Dec 2016 #1
I myself didn't START with (1). Not ever. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #7
And yet, your OP started with (1). yallerdawg Dec 2016 #8
I only mentioned (1) because I HAD to mention it Ken Burch Dec 2016 #9
Absolutely! williesgirl Dec 2016 #2
Absolutely. Nt lostnfound Dec 2016 #3
Fine by me. OrwellwasRight Dec 2016 #4
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2017 #36
Sounds GREAT. kacekwl Dec 2016 #5
No. Exilednight Dec 2016 #6
I agree but... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #13
Sorry. Can't fully agree with the second point. He should of course have been allowed to run. kcr Dec 2016 #10
Agreed. Justice Dec 2016 #12
No. Only Democrats should run in our primaries bravenak Dec 2016 #11
We need to also eliminate caucuses Gothmog Dec 2016 #18
Agreed about caucuses La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2017 #25
Caucuses are very undemocratic Gothmog Jan 2017 #34
I can agree on those two things. hamsterjill Dec 2016 #14
Understood. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #15
Not a chance! The greatest flame warriors on this site live and die Rex Dec 2016 #16
No Gothmog Dec 2016 #17
Where to begin? NastyRiffraff Dec 2016 #19
Great post Gothmog Dec 2016 #20
Yep. charlyvi Dec 2016 #21
Yup La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2017 #26
Your Bernie bias is showing there, Burch. charlyvi Dec 2016 #22
We live in a two party system. BzaDem Jan 2017 #24
We disagree. charlyvi Jan 2017 #33
YES, YES, YES! brush Jan 2017 #31
I disagree with part (though not all) of both points. BzaDem Jan 2017 #23
Sadly I don't think we are ready aikoaiko Jan 2017 #27
Ill be crystal clear: Bernie Sanders has absolutely no business determining the course stonecutter357 Jan 2017 #28
because y'all are doing such a bang up job? n/t HopeAgain Jan 2017 #32
For unity one suggestion: Everyone who disagrees with me shut the fuck up AngryAmish Jan 2017 #29
We lost and BOTH should move on HopeAgain Jan 2017 #30
Nope. Winner of the primary gets the biggest share of credit/blame for the general. Orsino Jan 2017 #35
Bernie doesn't agree. Nt BainsBane Jan 2017 #37
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2017 #38
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»A suggestion for the rest...»Reply #23