2016 Postmortem

The Velveteen Ocelot

(120,836 posts)

12. I heard comments of that sort from a surprising number

Fri Dec 30, 2016, 09:33 PM

Dec 2016

of people, and they were not rural, red state folks. The belief that Hillary was somehow crooked or corrupt was very widespread, even if the specifics - Benghazi, child prostitution out of the pizza parlor, that sort of thing - were not believed. If you try to rebut the Benghazi or emails stuff, the response was always something like, "Well, maybe she didn't do those things but she's just... crooked. I don't trust her." Even when the alternative was an ignorant, bigoted (and unquestionably crooked) boor like Trump, they couldn't get past their unshakable belief that Hillary was disastrously corrupt in an undefinable but horrible way.

I have my own theory about how this came about, which might start a flame war, so I won't mention it. However, this belief was clearly a real thing and I have no doubt it cost an awful lot of votes.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

163 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

I grew up in a very red, rural community in the midwest. [View all] yardwork Dec 2016 OP

And a corporate, conservative media that promotes the false equivalence argument, guillaumeb Dec 2016 #1

Correct. yardwork Dec 2016 #3

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #9

I agree. I saw and heard it. yardwork Dec 2016 #14

Many claiming to be our side did one hell of a hatchet job on Hillary. oasis Dec 2016 #28

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #31

"Voted for Hillary"? Only they know if they even voted at all. oasis Dec 2016 #37

No freakin' kidding! calimary Dec 2016 #105

You are so right on!! Angry Dragon Dec 2016 #96

Similar background, but it's simpler than that - they are stupid. That's why they believe that junk. Hoyt Dec 2016 #2

We're supposed to reach out to these folks, Hoyt! yardwork Dec 2016 #4

I hear you, but it's a waste of time, sorry. Hoyt Dec 2016 #6

Yeah, I was being sarcastic. It is indeed a waste of time. yardwork Dec 2016 #7

Salt of the Earth Hunter Rose Dec 2016 #87

I'm in a Deep South red state Phoenix61 Dec 2016 #5

I'm not sure how we can reach the brainwashed and willfully ignorant. yardwork Dec 2016 #8

I found a way to get through to the ones that do not know me! Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #43

Good job! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #82

that's the way to do i! Locrian Dec 2016 #86

Good tactic lunatica Dec 2016 #109

Welcome to DU, Phoenix61! calimary Dec 2016 #108

Thanks for the welcome Phoenix61 Dec 2016 #116

Yes, yes, and yes! radical noodle Dec 2016 #118

Okay, well, this is MOST instructive information, radical noodle. calimary Dec 2016 #129

Know your enemy radical noodle Jan 2017 #135

One-point-six MILLION shares. calimary Jan 2017 #150

No doubt about it radical noodle Jan 2017 #151

There are a lot of stupid a$$ people who are gullible to lies kimbutgar Dec 2016 #10

Thank you! betsuni Dec 2016 #11

I heard comments of that sort from a surprising number The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #12

Please share your theory. Here's mine: yardwork Dec 2016 #13

That's a big part of it, I think. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #15

No politician is pure. yardwork Dec 2016 #17

True. But Hillary's impurities seemed to count against her The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #20

Confirmation bias. People believe what they want to believe. yardwork Dec 2016 #22

Maureen Dowd... JHan Dec 2016 #30

Women have always been required to be more "virtuous" than men. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #32

Yep. +100000 JHan Dec 2016 #40

Agree Canoe52 Dec 2016 #48

If she'd been caught on tape bragging about The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #50

You have nailed it. LuckyLib Dec 2016 #57

Absolutely. Did Biden/Kerry/Edwards/Gore get crucified by the left over the Welfare Reform Bill? ehrnst Dec 2016 #90

Exactly. Or the 1994 Crime Bill, which Sanders actually voted for. nt SunSeeker Dec 2016 #99

But, but, but.... Bernie didn't mean it!!! Hillary was sleeping with Bill at the time!!! (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #124

neither Gore nor Edwards voted for that bill dsc Dec 2016 #132

Thanks - Gore was head of the Senate, and was smiling in the photo of it being signed.(nt) ehrnst Jan 2017 #145

Here is a good article about HRC's speeches. StevieM Dec 2016 #46

Yes, it seems to give credence to the theory that if you repeat a lie whathehell Dec 2016 #102

This DURHAM D Dec 2016 #18

But they're willing to set aside that feeling to vote against the woman. yardwork Dec 2016 #19

yes, guns was a big part of the anit-H vote that is rarely discussed Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #34

This. Nearly half of America is conservative Christian, built on misogyny. Crash2Parties Dec 2016 #21

The country was founded on two great crimes: theft of land from its KingCharlemagne Dec 2016 #59

You've nailed it, and this election of trump proves it will always be so. trump voters fell back . . brush Dec 2016 #91

The racism was "necessary" to maintain high profits. So was the revolution. Crash2Parties Dec 2016 #130

Sorry, but Christianity is no more "built on misogny" than Judaism or Islam whathehell Dec 2016 #84

Seriously? They're all built on it. Guess you never heard of hijabs? brush Dec 2016 #92

Yes, seriously...Thanks for making my point, lol. whathehell Dec 2016 #97

Adam and Eve. Also, in terms of sex/gender the Catholic Church is damn conservative Crash2Parties Dec 2016 #131

The Book of Genesis which contains the Adam & Eve story is part of Judaism whathehell Jan 2017 #136

Misogyny played a large role in this election Gothmog Dec 2016 #106

mommy issues. mopinko Dec 2016 #53

Similar here. tammywammy Dec 2016 #121

Yeah, I deal with these people, too. herding cats Dec 2016 #16

Yep not fooled Dec 2016 #52

Well said and described, not fooled. Cha Dec 2016 #66

No progressive I ever zentrum Dec 2016 #23

Just because you didn't hear it doesn't mean it didn't exist. yardwork Dec 2016 #24

Exactly, yardwork... I've seen it all too often. No FACTS whatsoever Cha Dec 2016 #67

+1000 progressoid Dec 2016 #27

There were plenty of people who were legitimately concerned The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #29

You might want to check out ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #36

Thank you for bringing that into the light, Nance.. it really is mind Cha Dec 2016 #69

I knew plenty who spread lies from usuncut La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #45

"Fake left" news is zentrum Dec 2016 #47

Ahh ok. I meant the types of people who call themselves La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #49

You must be new here. brush Dec 2016 #94

As a matter of fact zentrum Dec 2016 #113

You're probably right. All those "corrupt, crooked and corporate whore remarks" must ... brush Dec 2016 #126

So they're extremely gullible. milestogo Dec 2016 #25

Confirmation bias. They were looking for excuses. yardwork Dec 2016 #26

yes, also, she wanted your GUNS!!! Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #33

Funny thing, Obama was supposed to have taken them The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #39

it's almost like the rightwing just believes pure bullshit Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #41

Far too many people are completely incapable of critical thinking. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2016 #35

Im sure progressives probably do spread false hoods but lancelyons Dec 2016 #38

You forgot a power hungry, "will do anything" woman for the Presidency. DawgHouse Dec 2016 #42

Was this before Obama took their guns and turned them gay IronLionZion Dec 2016 #44

But there are rural, very red communities in the Midwest Oldtimeralso Dec 2016 #55

Absolutely my experience in the rural west and southwest Tumbulu Dec 2016 #51

Meanwhile Hillary Clinton was born in the Midwest (Chicago), and served initially in the South.... George II Dec 2016 #54

It suprises me everytime I see someone on FaceBook say C Moon Dec 2016 #56

I suspect that people believed all of these lies because they were already biased against Clinton. Willie Pep Dec 2016 #58

This really, REALLY, deserves to be its own OP and receive wide exposure. The KingCharlemagne Dec 2016 #61

I've thought about your points a lot. I've decided that I need to speak up more often. yardwork Jan 2017 #143

I would be surprised if these people could fine Benghazi on a map MrScorpio Dec 2016 #60

Yep. I tried to convince people on some local online forums a few months ago... Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #62

And, in the final analysis... ailsagirl Dec 2016 #63

That, and RUSSIA, because it can't be overstated that less than 1% in most swing LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #64

Thank you for this, yardwork! I've overheard similar Cha Dec 2016 #65

I've heard people say about Hillary... Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #70

They want to believe it.. they're repubs and it's easier to Cha Dec 2016 #72

They weren't always Republican, though. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #73

I know.. the m$m has done a thorough job of getting Cha Dec 2016 #74

I'm pleased that MOST people voted for her! Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #75

I know.. right there with ya.. we were all shocked, literally, Cha Dec 2016 #80

Yeah. It was more shocking than Dumbya being elected twice for me. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #81

I actually think that Comey did more than just tip a narrow race one way as opposed to the other. StevieM Jan 2017 #144

It boiled down to this? Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #78

Indeed not fooled Dec 2016 #100

Critical thinking and facts... Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #101

Great meme Gothmog Dec 2016 #127

What a great thread. Can't rec it enough. This reminds R B Garr Dec 2016 #68

Another thing especially to your last sentence.... R B Garr Dec 2016 #71

+1 Hekate Dec 2016 #77

For crying out loud he treated her with kid gloves. I suppose he was supposed to coddle her? dionysus Dec 2016 #79

Like the time he said she was not qualified for office? La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #83

Actually you are wrong-it was the Clinton campaign who handle Sanders with kid gloves Gothmog Dec 2016 #133

Hillary Clinton did not attack Sanders because his supporters over-reacted Gothmog Jan 2017 #134

They both acted poorly on that one. Booing the guy was rude. It was also low dionysus Jan 2017 #149

In reality, Bernie was the one coddled, mostly because he was not vetted. R B Garr Jan 2017 #146

K&R Jamaal510 Dec 2016 #76

Why do millions of people believe these blatant falsehoods? hamsterjill Dec 2016 #85

I've heard all of the above. Details are always vague. blue cat Dec 2016 #88

I think that plenty of damning fiction could have been easily created about other Dem candidates ehrnst Dec 2016 #89

Like the song says TNNurse Dec 2016 #93

It is those who style themselves BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #95

Not just rural red places-- low info voters were at least hearing these fake stories everywhere andym Dec 2016 #98

I have personally experienced these people and you are correct. Eliot Rosewater Dec 2016 #103

Good OP, yardwork. brer cat Dec 2016 #104

No, The Systems Not Totally Rigged. But That Idea Sure Helped Donald Trump. Gothmog Dec 2016 #107

Except its NOT a bogus claim LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #114

Sanders was rejected soundly by Jewish, African and Latino votes Gothmog Dec 2016 #120

"Sanders helped get trump elected" LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #123

In the real world in past primary contests, the candidates were all actual members of the party Gothmog Dec 2016 #128

Sanders was absolutely right, he needed to run as a Democrat LiberalLovinLug Jan 2017 #142

So you are proud of Sanders efforts to get Trump elected Gothmog Jan 2017 #153

I can't argue with someone with such a vicious predetermined opinion LiberalLovinLug Jan 2017 #154

Then prove me wrong- the facts are clear that Sanders helped elect trump Gothmog Jan 2017 #157

Bernie's platform was unrealistic and there was no revolution Gothmog Jan 2017 #158

You're confused LiberalLovinLug Jan 2017 #159

There is so much wrong in this post that it is hard to pick Gothmog Jan 2017 #160

So once again...you do not believe that the system is rigged at all in favor of the wealthy? LiberalLovinLug Jan 2017 #162

I was a delegate to the national convention Gothmog Jan 2017 #163

The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected Gothmog Jan 2017 #161

Because they read the Enquirer dreamland Dec 2016 #110

I have to say sammcgee68 Dec 2016 #111

I'm with you. Way too much Sanders, and Sander supporters, bashing LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #112

Did you mean to respond to my OP? I said nothing about Sanders. yardwork Dec 2016 #117

+1000 n2doc Dec 2016 #119

No offense, sam, but this is called hijacking a thread mtnsnake Jan 2017 #138

Thank you. My OP is not directed at Sanders or the primaries. yardwork Jan 2017 #141

"We live in a world of radical ignorance" Robert Proctor CousinIT Dec 2016 #115

Heard a similar story just today DeminPennswoods Dec 2016 #122

They heard that "flawed" argument radical noodle Dec 2016 #125

"Because millions of people deliberately spread the lies" mtnsnake Jan 2017 #137

Thanks! I did leave out the gun issue by accident. The NRA was busy this year. yardwork Jan 2017 #140

Thank you, everyone, for your responses. yardwork Jan 2017 #139

"They don't know or care what the word deplorable means." Goblinmonger Jan 2017 #147

It's a statement of fact, based on my personal experience. yardwork Jan 2017 #148

These people can believe ellie Jan 2017 #152

She abdicated for 2/3 of the year. She never showed up to campaign in Swing States. libdem4life Jan 2017 #155

From what I understand 80k Red votes in one state, equals 2 million Blue votes in another state. Rex Jan 2017 #156