2016 Postmortem

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

68. Good question. Here's my amateur analysis.

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 04:48 PM

Dec 2016

You ask, "Are people just being intentionally obtuse?" My guess is that "intentionally" is a little too harsh. I suggest instead that some people are so blinded by partisanship that they can't see any fault on their own side or any merit in another side. They will embrace any attack on someone they dislike, regardless of how foolish the attack is. For any criticism of their own side, no matter how valid, they don't intentionally put their fingers in their ears and say "La-la-la-la-I-can't-hear-you," but they might as well.

Consider the millions of Trump voters who think unemployment went up under Obama. They're being obtuse but, in my judgment, not intentionally so.

Unfortunately, the ultimate effect is the same. The obtuseness remains.

This is the point in the post where I would explain my solution for dealing with the problem -- if I had a solution, which I don't.

Click here to purchase valentine hearts!

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

144 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

All the sudden sanders wants obamacare saved. [View all] boston bean Dec 2016 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author Renew Deal Dec 2016 #1

I am not trashing him. boston bean Dec 2016 #2

What do you call it? Renew Deal Dec 2016 #3

Defending the democratic party. boston bean Dec 2016 #5

He's in the Democratic Party leadership. Renew Deal Dec 2016 #6

Get over what? boston bean Dec 2016 #8

So is Joe Manchin who want to work with the Dumpster leftofcool Dec 2016 #9

Bernie's support for single-payer was never an ATTACK on the Democratic Party. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #40

Exactly liberalmike27 Dec 2016 #47

I disagree. It was an attack on the Democratic Party. DanTex Dec 2016 #57

If I remember right, padfun Dec 2016 #65

No, it was Bernie. It was also Bernie who refused to concede for a month after he was eliminated. DanTex Dec 2016 #74

Actually, Bill trashed it to. He had a chance to pass it Exilednight Dec 2016 #77

I guess we were in a parrallel universe WhiteTara Dec 2016 #63

I know. This is just sad by this point... dionysus Dec 2016 #70

Oh no; not trashing him at all. Chasstev365 Dec 2016 #54

This stopbush Dec 2016 #4

A single payer system would be far superior to the system we have now. PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #7

Maybe. It might be far worse. Look at Medicare Part D Recursion Dec 2016 #53

What??? OrwellwasRight Dec 2016 #85

Exactly... why do you think... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #109

Yep. OrwellwasRight Dec 2016 #110

Bernie would have no more luck getting single payor than Obama did. Lil Missy Dec 2016 #134

Sanders also stated that he is willing to work with Trump for a $10 an hour minimum wage. lapucelle Dec 2016 #10

I don't know why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #12

It is what will pass. What can be passed. boston bean Dec 2016 #13

Well the plan was to have The Presidency and The Senate. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #17

Republican opposition and citizen opposition to single payer still boston bean Dec 2016 #23

You mean like gay marriage and legal recreational pot were just "pipe dreams"? LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #58

Yep. And it sure doesn't help with Brock and the conservadems calling it freebies and pipe dreams. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #61

And like Medicare when it was first proposed. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #66

Federally Pot is Legal??? wow, didn't know that? boston bean Dec 2016 #69

Those would not have happened without the attention LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #97

Well, right now, single payer is not an option. Bernie realizes that. Hillary realized that but boston bean Dec 2016 #100

WHOOSH! LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #101

don't think so. boston bean Dec 2016 #102

I heard a whoosh of a point going over someone's head kcr Dec 2016 #103

this!!!! Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #131

Why not try fighting before you surrender? lapucelle Dec 2016 #15

There is no double standard... TCJ70 Dec 2016 #26

Making one out to be a corrupt politiciam for apeaking the truth v pie in the sky boston bean Dec 2016 #27

Wrong, wrong, wrong kcr Dec 2016 #29

I could not agree more. trc Dec 2016 #37

Wanting to do liberalmike27 Dec 2016 #49

Between someone who says: TCJ70 Dec 2016 #87

That's fine kcr Dec 2016 #90

Not at all... TCJ70 Dec 2016 #94

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #96

You are the best! JustAnotherGen Dec 2016 #138

As they said years ago, "half a loaf is better than none"! George II Jan 2017 #144

No, you actually fucking try and if you are stopped you relentlessly, stridently, and clearly who TheKentuckian Dec 2016 #104

Read what I'm actually saying. It's not the trying I disagree with. It's the dishonest attacks. kcr Dec 2016 #105

Are you specifically talking about healthcare? PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #28

The discussion was his categorization of her. To be beholden to health insurance companies. boston bean Dec 2016 #30

I don't think people thought she was corrupted for wanting to fix Obamacare PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #34

So, Bernie didn't want to tear down such a corrupt system, like many are saying????.. but boston bean Dec 2016 #84

When did Bernie say her winning was rigged? PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #89

No. I was talking about Sanders willingness to accept a $10 an hour minimum wage. lapucelle Dec 2016 #32

And yet when Hillary proposed a $12 minimum wage, some people on this board went ballistic mcar Dec 2016 #20

Show me where anybody said 15 or nothing or single payer or nothing. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #39

"Kill the bill!" kcr Dec 2016 #98

You tell the truth, kcr.. Cha Dec 2016 #135

I damn sure remember it very well. You do too, you were a host of GD, so if you forgot bravenak Dec 2016 #114

So you are saying during the campaign people said 15 or no minimum wage at all? Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #116

Fuck yeah bravenak Dec 2016 #118

Neither Bernie or anyone in his campaign or anyone here said 15 or "nothing" Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #124

It was fifteen or no change at all bravenak Dec 2016 #125

I wouldn't say ballistic liberalmike27 Dec 2016 #51

Well, 15 dollars sure as shit isn't, either kcr Dec 2016 #99

Neither is ten but he seems fine with ten now bravenak Dec 2016 #127

Exactly LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #62

Good question. Here's my amateur analysis. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #68

Oh my! sheshe2 Dec 2016 #11

Wow Bernie thanks again for all your help. Good thing you Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #14

Yeah......I agree with you. LisaM Dec 2016 #31

complete nonsense bowens43 Dec 2016 #55

terrible candidate bullshit she was the most qualified Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #56

I agree bravenak Dec 2016 #119

we could have been shaping the judiciary to suit our needs Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #143

I'm going to rec this thread for exposure. See if you can spot the logical fallacy... PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #16

There is no logical fallacy, but I do discern a note of pomposity... lapucelle Dec 2016 #18

Don't be so hard on yourself I wouldn't call your reply pompous. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #19

The very cogent "I know you are, but what am I?" response from a master logician! lapucelle Dec 2016 #21

Thanks for the notice. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #22

His whole career!!!! NCTraveler Dec 2016 #25

He is a career politician acting like a career politician. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #24

Is he working for the banks like Barney Frank? Is he working for big health care like Howard Dean? aikoaiko Dec 2016 #52

Thenprojection is astounding... and sad... dionysus Dec 2016 #76

Word. SMDH nt riderinthestorm Dec 2016 #122

Who is surprised by this shift in positions? Gothmog Dec 2016 #33

You have so much ENERGY for criticizing Bernie! lostnfound Dec 2016 #35

Can't agree more!!! HenryWallace Dec 2016 #60

Great point. I think this is what they call selling out. R B Garr Dec 2016 #36

Look, Bernie never wanted the ACA simply repealed, for God's sakes. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #38

lol, this is just one small example of the divisive dishonesty that was allowed R B Garr Dec 2016 #41

It's obvious that Bernie didn't want to weaken Hillary in the fall, and that he and his supporters Ken Burch Dec 2016 #43

Before the Fall, Bernie's main goal was to defeat Clinton, and his tactics R B Garr Dec 2016 #48

You mean divisive and dishonest like when Chelsea claimed Bernie wants to take away your Medicare? Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #64

omg, this kind of divisiveness is what Bernie enabled with his dishonest R B Garr Dec 2016 #71

Hillary's fight for health care was one of the main reasons I supported her since the 90s... Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #88

Aw, this is more of the divisiveness that Bernie fostered. Defending herself against R B Garr Dec 2016 #91

You know perfectly well it was a lie to say Bernie wanted to just get rid of the ACA Ken Burch Dec 2016 #111

Bernie is the one who needs to apologize for making false claims not only R B Garr Dec 2016 #113

Bernie is in Congress, not the VT legislature and had no role to play w healthcare there Arazi Dec 2016 #140

He was asked about this in a debate, so it's more than legitimate to expect R B Garr Dec 2016 #142

Compare his tactics with Clinton 2008 Jim Lane Dec 2016 #67

2008, Clinton won the popular vote by most calculations. Bernie never ever had a shot R B Garr Dec 2016 #72

Your characterization of Bernie's campaign is simply false. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #75

Seriously? He couldn't even provide proof of Wall Street execs he would prosecute. R B Garr Dec 2016 #78

and he had no idea how he would break up big banks, it was in Dodd Frank he said.. another boston bean Dec 2016 #81

Oh, yeah! Forgot that one, I'll have to dredge them up now considering this R B Garr Dec 2016 #83

I started to reply to your foolishness but I realized my post would be removed. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #86

She ONLY won the popular vote because she actively campaigned in Florida and Michigan Ken Burch Dec 2016 #112

Fact: she was far closer than Bernie ever was. And she won California. R B Garr Dec 2016 #115

It couldn't have served any greater good for Bernie to withdraw earlier. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #117

This persistence on maligning her is a bit laughable considering in the real world R B Garr Dec 2016 #120

I'm NOT maligning her. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #121

You do keep maligning her, and saying you know what her natural instincts are is R B Garr Dec 2016 #123

He wanted to fight for medicare for all as President. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #42

+1 n/t CousinIT Dec 2016 #46

So True. Sanders has Become Clinton. Schumer co-opted by giving him a role in the Party. delisen Dec 2016 #44

Of course he does. Given the alternative right now that makes sense. CousinIT Dec 2016 #45

HRC accused him of wanting to zentrum Dec 2016 #50

That's because it is. Thank you for posting the truth. 50 Shades Of Blue Dec 2016 #59

Umm, then what was the difference between his and her proposals? boston bean Dec 2016 #73

Let's not rewrite history. zentrum Dec 2016 #79

So you cannot answer. Got it. boston bean Dec 2016 #80

Excuse me? zentrum Dec 2016 #92

very very principled. forget about single payer, because republicans... but those same ones would boston bean Dec 2016 #93

So Bean, can we look forward to another Bernie "hit piece" tomorrow? Raster Dec 2016 #106

Exactly. zentrum Dec 2016 #130

It's only a losing zentrum Dec 2016 #108

He lost WAY before she lost. And would again in a New York minute. No contest. bravenak Dec 2016 #126

Let's not rewrite history. Because you're doing a fine job of it yourself, right here. kcr Dec 2016 #95

Sometimes Uponthegears Dec 2016 #82

SANDERS!!!!!!! Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #107

Did he vote for the ACA? andym Dec 2016 #128

He knows if Republicans repeal it we will have nothing. Liberty Belle Dec 2016 #129

I see the same people who went on and on about how bad incremental change betsuni Dec 2016 #132

This OP is just more of the same--so much waisted energy. Entering the stalker phase of relationship TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #133

You are implying something else here. Sienna86 Dec 2016 #136

"Don't blame Bernie for Hilary losing the election" TCJ70 Dec 2016 #139

It's just another chance to smear Bernie. SSDD Arazi Dec 2016 #141

Sanders wanted to get rid of the ACA & replace it with Medicare For All. baldguy Dec 2016 #137