2016 Postmortem

NanceGreggs

(27,835 posts)

305. I've posted this dozens of times ...

Sun Dec 25, 2016, 11:59 PM

Dec 2016

... but I'll do so again, because I think it relevant to what we're seeing happening here.

IMHO, where it all went wrong on DU was the change in the TOS after Obama's election, where the "constructive criticism" of Democrats rule was changed to allow for "any and all criticism".

After that rule change, DU became inundated with people posing as "concerned Dems" - who trashed Obama and the Party on every issue on a daily basis, and oh-so-surprisingly never had anything positive to say about either.

Many old-time DUers left as a result - I was one of them. I eventually came back - many, many never did.

What's the difference between "constructive criticism" and "any and all" criticism?

It's the difference between saying, "We lost in the Rust Belt - and I think this is why ...," and saying, "Hillary lost the Rust Belt because she is the worst candidate ever, the DNC sucks, the whole Party sucks, and I think we should talk about how much everyone and everything sucks."

One invites constructive criticism, and constructive discussion. The other invites a bash-fest of Democrats, with the attendant whinging, complaining - and often more than a few RW talking points thrown into the mix.

Is DU still a "gathering place for Democrats"? To some extent, it is - as there are still many Democrats here. But there is no dismissing the fact that a lot of people here aren't Dems, or like-minded people. And I believe this election and its aftermath has given us all a much clearer picture of who's who.

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It kills me to come to a gathering place for democrats [View all] boston bean Dec 2016 OP

Amen, Boston Bean. Something is not right when that kind of thing continues. Hekate Dec 2016 #1

Some days are ok, and then others it is just as raw as Nov. 9. boston bean Dec 2016 #6

She would've been awesome as president. No one's perfect, but she would've been awesome. SharonAnn Dec 2016 #29

Seriously. At the risk of stirring something up, Bernie would NOT have won. calimary Dec 2016 #124

Absolutely fantastic rant, calimary. Hekate Dec 2016 #137

sadly they will never forgive her for being a woman. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #163

Being female hurt her Gothmog Dec 2016 #356

I hear you Gothmog. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #362

I am also sad at this Gothmog Dec 2016 #404

When we were in the USA this past year, my German wife caught this immediately DFW Dec 2016 #165

Spot on. The repugs held their fire on Sanders but went all in after Clinton? Not rocket science brush Dec 2016 #188

I know. That was so obvious. LisaM Dec 2016 #197

It's obvious to the objective common sense observer. betsuni Dec 2016 #198

Yes, that all was pretty obvious. There were a few candid statements from the GOP, but clearly stevenleser Dec 2016 #340

Some people trust Eichenwald's opinion about Bernie winning -- others do not. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #275

You hardly have to rely on Eichenwald's description of GOP oppo research. Other factors are stevenleser Dec 2016 #339

First, let me say that I am not sure Bernie would have won, but here is my counterargument. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #370

It wasn't an unconventional year. Nothing about it was unconventional. stevenleser Dec 2016 #376

My take on the election was that change was key factor aikoaiko Dec 2016 #379

Exactly like I said, polling in general elections has trouble with last minute events like Comey. stevenleser Dec 2016 #380

I can see we are not going to convince each other, but the polls don't show sifts inthe last 10 days aikoaiko Dec 2016 #381

And that is because as I keep telling you, the polls have trouble showing that when there is a major stevenleser Dec 2016 #382

Ok I see what you're saying now. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #383

No one in the real world relied on silly match up polls Gothmog Dec 2016 #510

Except they accurately described what happened to HRC in the GE this time. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #515

No-in the real world these match up polls were worthless because Sanders was not vetted Gothmog Dec 2016 #516

Maybe not. Trump had the biggest opposition research file ever -- even video -- it was not enough aikoaiko Dec 2016 #517

I like living in the real world Gothmog Dec 2016 #523

The real world where Trump beat HRC the most qualified candidate ever aikoaiko Dec 2016 #525

Trump had a great deal hope including from Sanders Gothmog Dec 2016 #526

Great post. This point needs to be made: 2016 was not unconventional or StevieM Jan 2017 #538

+1 Lucinda Dec 2016 #304

Trump had a two foot thick book of oppo on Sanders Gothmog Dec 2016 #355

Thank you for this, calimary! Cha Dec 2016 #372

Great post Gothmog Dec 2016 #500

Thank you for this post, Calimary. Pathwalker Dec 2016 #502

I feel very cheated. Like This is a personal loss La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #2

It feels like a betrayal. Arkansas Granny Dec 2016 #3

It is an extremely personal affront to me as a human being. boston bean Dec 2016 #5

Yup. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #13

I am still sick over this whole thing. It was such an evil victory for the GOP. StevieM Dec 2016 #84

Arkansas has gone from blue to deep red in just a few years time. Arkansas Granny Dec 2016 #129

I feel like everything I believe in has been stolen. we can do it Dec 2016 #11

I feel like women are reviled. To vote that fucker in.... boston bean Dec 2016 #15

Don't worry 2020 or 2024 the repugs are gearing up kellyanne Conway to be the yeoman6987 Dec 2016 #16

Now there's a scary thought!! Don't think there'll be anything left for Satan's Bride to destroy after the Fuhrer-Elect is done ransackin the country. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #252

No sane, intelligent person could have picked Trump. duffyduff Dec 2016 #20

ayep! boston bean Dec 2016 #24

And black people. And dems in general. For some reason the rethugs have a special dionysus Dec 2016 #27

Well, y'all were getting a bit uppity Ghost OF Trotsky Dec 2016 #284

It's disheartening. we can do it Dec 2016 #35

Come on. liquid diamond Dec 2016 #309

Gender is on the list of reasons why she lost.. Kuhl Dec 2016 #325

I strongly disagree with your analysis and conclusions Gothmog Dec 2016 #524

Therein lies the problem. Cowpunk Dec 2016 #287

He lost because he got fewer votes La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #301

Oh, I see. Cowpunk Dec 2016 #387

lol. No my feeling cheated is different from La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #391

Sanders got less than 43% of the vote in the primaries Gothmog Dec 2016 #358

I have the same feelings Gothmog Dec 2016 #357

K&R! n/t RKP5637 Dec 2016 #4

Thank you. we can do it Dec 2016 #7

YES !!! THERE'S NO GUESSING WITH COMEY !!! The polls numbers went down after Comey and its uponit7771 Dec 2016 #8

What breaks my heart Nonhlanhla Dec 2016 #9

you've hit the nail on the head. boston bean Dec 2016 #12

Nails are outdated obliviously Dec 2016 #134

Is that silly insult even necessary? Try contributing something useful. brush Dec 2016 #191

Mine's broken, too. we can do it Dec 2016 #56

i disagree with some of your premise. Exilednight Dec 2016 #10

I agree. elleng Dec 2016 #17

Obama ran a progressive campaign, but, by and large, did not advance a progressive agenda. lapucelle Dec 2016 #32

We will have to agree to disagree on all acounts. Exilednight Dec 2016 #34

We will have to disagree. lapucelle Dec 2016 #44

Bernie had scorched earth policy? One word for you from '08: PUMAs. Exilednight Dec 2016 #59

Hillary gave her full throated support prior to the convention. boston bean Dec 2016 #61

I am dealing in reality. Many of her supporters blame Obama for her not winning in 2016. Exilednight Dec 2016 #66

that's a new one. boston bean Dec 2016 #75

I haven't heard that from anyone. nt Tanuki Dec 2016 #81

you should read more. Exilednight Dec 2016 #116

Perhaps you would oblige by posting something one could read to support your assertion. Tanuki Dec 2016 #127

Post #115 Exilednight Dec 2016 #203

Seriously? You're still holding a grudge from the 2008 campaign. brush Dec 2016 #192

What are you talking about? Exilednight Dec 2016 #202

Read the same thing just recently, forget where. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #254

You should lie less. Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #272

What did I lie about? Exilednight Dec 2016 #280

I certainly have seen that sentiment expressed here. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #307

Link? sheshe2 Dec 2016 #95

Here you go. Exilednight Dec 2016 #115

Thanks but no.... sheshe2 Dec 2016 #118

you asked for proof, and there it is. That is a 100% pure pro Hillary site. Exilednight Dec 2016 #199

Seems like it's the same "reality" as Donald, "many people" are saying synergie Dec 2016 #439

I've provided links upthread. Exilednight Dec 2016 #443

It's a long thread and you have many posts, few of which contain facts. synergie Dec 2016 #488

I was accused of being a PUMA murielm99 Dec 2016 #135

The PUMA thing is real. Many are still out there. Exilednight Dec 2016 #200

This message was self-deleted by its author betsuni Dec 2016 #206

Clinton led her coalition to the table. lapucelle Dec 2016 #224

PUMAs are still out there. To pretend otherwise is ignorance at best and intellectual dishonesty at Exilednight Dec 2016 #230

I never said there weren't still PUMAS out there, but we seem to agree it's marginal lapucelle Dec 2016 #233

They weren't marginal. Obama found other avenues to win. Exilednight Dec 2016 #243

May I suggest you review third party voting in 2008 compared to 2016. boston bean Dec 2016 #389

Trump used Sanders quotes and arguments to great effect in the general Gothmog Dec 2016 #360

So your argument is Exilednight Dec 2016 #378

No that is not the argument. boston bean Dec 2016 #390

Then what is the argument. Exilednight Dec 2016 #395

Sanders was treated with kid gloves by the Clinton campaign which tied her hands Gothmog Dec 2016 #397

That explains nothing of relevance. Exilednight Dec 2016 #400

Actually, it does explain a great deal Gothmog Dec 2016 #412

Proof? Exilednight Dec 2016 #421

In the real world Sanders was a very very weak candidate Gothmog Dec 2016 #423

Where's your proof that Hillary treated Sanders with kid gloves against her will? Exilednight Dec 2016 #428

This was commonly known Gothmog Dec 2016 #430

That's an oped piece, not news. Any real proof? Exilednight Dec 2016 #432

I was a delegate to the National Convention Gothmog Dec 2016 #436

Okay, that's her delegates. I'm asking about her. Exilednight Dec 2016 #446

Clinton did not attack Sanders for two reasons Gothmog Dec 2016 #447

Stop trying to muddy the waters. Did someone keep her against Exilednight Dec 2016 #454

Here is another good example Gothmog Dec 2016 #451

She didn't attack him, not on his gang rape essays, his child sex one etc. synergie Dec 2016 #434

That doesn't answer my question. Exilednight Dec 2016 #435

Do you approve of the booing of Congressman John Lewis by Sanders delegates at national convention? Gothmog Dec 2016 #437

But, it does. You just don't like the answer. synergie Dec 2016 #438

There was proof she was gagged against her will? where is it? Exilednight Dec 2016 #445

Read the posts again-no one said that Hillary Clinton was forced to be nice to Sanders Gothmog Dec 2016 #448

It's weird how far you've dragged those goal posts to deny the basic truth here. synergie Dec 2016 #482

Since this is a claim you and only you have made, perhaps you should ask yourself synergie Dec 2016 #487

Did you read the platform written in July? George II Dec 2016 #442

Sanders had no chance of being the nominee and ran a campaign designed to hurt Clinton Gothmog Dec 2016 #396

That's a nice rant, but it doesn't explain why Exilednight Dec 2016 #398

To put the issue to bed would mean not treating Sanders with kid gloves Gothmog Dec 2016 #413

That's on Hillary. Exilednight Dec 2016 #420

You are wrong-Sanders supporters would have gone nuts is Sanders was treated like a real candidate Gothmog Dec 2016 #424

I keep hearing about this research, but no one can produce it. Exilednight Dec 2016 #427

The research was available for use but Hillary Clinton had to treat Sanders with kid gloves Gothmog Dec 2016 #429

Prove it exists and link up to it, and please provide proof that Hillary was gagged. Exilednight Dec 2016 #431

It's been proven numerous times, it's why so many of you were alerting and hiding people during synergie Dec 2016 #440

There was a great deal of material to use on Sanders Gothmog Dec 2016 #441

Critical thinking is based off of known variables, none of which Exilednight Dec 2016 #444

Do you tire of being wrong? Gothmog Dec 2016 #449

Actually, I just get tired of people who make accusations with only hear-say evidence. Exilednight Dec 2016 #468

It is so very amusing to see a layperson try to use terms that they do not understand Gothmog Dec 2016 #469

I note that you have yet to prove that Hillary was gagged against her will from attacking Sanders. Exilednight Dec 2016 #472

Re-read the material on this thread Gothmog Dec 2016 #473

There are no facts that you presented. NO ONE TOLD HILLARY TO STAY SILENT! Exilednight Dec 2016 #475

So she exercised her judgment and chose not to attack an easy target synergie Dec 2016 #483

Who cares - time for 2017 elections! JustAnotherGen Dec 2016 #491

Again misusing legal terms and ignoring facts are not helping your case Gothmog Dec 2016 #492

I get tired of people who launch strawman arguments, move the goal posts synergie Dec 2016 #484

Ignoring known variables doesn't help when one is attempting to pretend synergie Dec 2016 #467

Yeah, that's why I cash paychecks from the DNC from 2006 to 2009. Exilednight Dec 2016 #470

Yeah, sure I believe that. I mean you just said, it's not like you provided proof synergie Dec 2016 #485

You are using facts against someone who wants ignore these facts Gothmog Dec 2016 #474

But he "nos" so much about politics, he cashed checks and was solely responsible for synergie Dec 2016 #486

I am also amused by that post Gothmog Dec 2016 #489

It did not provide the republicans the tools to hit hard on corporate influence. Most Republicans JCanete Dec 2016 #346

I don't think it was unecessarily negative. It took going all the way to the convention for Clinton JCanete Dec 2016 #167

+1000000! SammyWinstonJack Dec 2016 #174

The exact inverse argument could be made... LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #177

That's not a different inverse argument. Its the same argument. I'm saying had the DNC not JCanete Dec 2016 #215

The Sanders portion of the party WAS invited to the table... LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #289

You'll have to show me what being invited to the table looks like. Saying "drop out and trust us" is JCanete Dec 2016 #345

Oh, absolutely Amaril Dec 2016 #419

80% of your platform was adopted...AND Sanders supporters were LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #425

again, show me what that looked like. I don't remember the overture, and I certainly JCanete Dec 2016 #456

You don't remember because you were too busy lamenting...and berating...To wit: LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #457

07/10/16. you are talking about what we got after Sanders stayed in the race. Guess what! JCanete Dec 2016 #458

your inability to remember that. LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #459

what? No we aren't. The conversation was about whether or not the DNC should have JCanete Dec 2016 #460

No. It wasn't. See post 345. LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #461

take the context of the whole conversation. I'm sorry that you got misled by me saying "during the JCanete Dec 2016 #462

I was at the National Convention and your analysis is wrong Gothmog Dec 2016 #361

You are fond of leading with "You are wrong," and then not addressing anything I said. JCanete Dec 2016 #369

Again your attempt at analysis is simply wrong Gothmog Dec 2016 #394

I'm sorry but you couldn't be more wrong, and it is amusing to me, and pathetic, and sad, JCanete Dec 2016 #401

The fact that you think that you are correct is amusing but is not based on facts Gothmog Dec 2016 #405

Again, addressing nothing that I said. Not a single thing. Do you talk around things for a living? JCanete Dec 2016 #406

Not to throw gas on the fire - not my intent JustAnotherGen Dec 2016 #408

in my last post? Or throughout the thread? The last post has to do with the way my conversations go JCanete Dec 2016 #411

I am not the only one amused on this thread Gothmog Dec 2016 #414

So you weren't happy to address anything I've said so far? Is that why you talked about entirely JCanete Dec 2016 #418

Use some facts or present something other than feelings Gothmog Dec 2016 #422

As a desciple of Sheldon Cooper, I caan't resist this: George II Dec 2016 #416

hehe, semantically, I think you can be more or less wrong though. Wrong on part of something JCanete Dec 2016 #417

Again, I use facts on these threads and you want to talk about your feelings Gothmog Dec 2016 #450

ugh..that was worth another post? The FACT is, that you use "facts" that are irrelevant to the JCanete Dec 2016 #452

Again it appears that you only want to discuss your feelings and not the facts Gothmog Dec 2016 #453

but what the fuck are you talking about? How is that responding to anything I've said up to this JCanete Dec 2016 #455

Has Sanders changed his FEC filing to run as a Democrat for Senate in 2018? Gothmog Dec 2016 #463

I would like to take a moment to praise you for actually responding to things I said in my post. JCanete Dec 2016 #464

Again your aversion to facts amuses me Gothmog Dec 2016 #465

My entrance into the conversation wasn't with the OP, so I'm not sure why that matters. JCanete Dec 2016 #466

Ignoring the facts will not change these facts Gothmog Dec 2016 #471

there should be a drinking game associated with every time you say facts, amuse and wrong. JCanete Dec 2016 #480

Again, your feelings are meaningless Gothmog Dec 2016 #490

What's a "desciple" Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #476

Sanders is the establishment as much as any other long term politician. lapucelle Dec 2016 #334

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about what establishment even means. JCanete Dec 2016 #344

"The Establishment generally denotes a dominant group or elite that holds power lapucelle Dec 2016 #347

Well I just explained to you how he's not part of that inner circle of power. He is in the Senate. JCanete Dec 2016 #348

Because I don't need you to explain things to me, I didn't read beyond your title. lapucelle Dec 2016 #349

Boggles the mind why you're on a discussion board at all. Why not just write shit in a journal and JCanete Dec 2016 #350

Coming from you that is so very very funny Gothmog Dec 2016 #493

hey, its Gothmog! You forgot to say that it's amusing to you... JCanete Dec 2016 #495

Again, there are no facts or real analysis in your post Gothmog Dec 2016 #496

no, I commented on the other poster for posting on a discussion board and then, because that poster JCanete Dec 2016 #497

Another silly but funny post Gothmog Dec 2016 #498

That doesn't really jive with reality... Kuhl Dec 2016 #326

"The primary process treated her with kid gloves" lapucelle Dec 2016 #333

I'm just saying that she had every internal advantage possible... Kuhl Dec 2016 #336

Clinton lost because Sanders entered the race with no expectation of being nominee Gothmog Dec 2016 #499

She just as easily could have realized that Bernie still had power... Kuhl Dec 2016 #503

Sander was the one who dragged out the negotiations Gothmog Dec 2016 #504

He was interested in getting more of his views into the main party... Kuhl Dec 2016 #505

Sanders hurt the party and help elect Trump Gothmog Dec 2016 #506

This is the old line... Kuhl Dec 2016 #507

How do you explain Sanders own admissions that he only ran for media coverage Gothmog Dec 2016 #512

I'll amend... Kuhl Dec 2016 #513

Sanders was eliminated mathematically after Super Tuesday Gothmog Dec 2016 #514

He still held a significant portion of the voting block in his hand... Kuhl Dec 2016 #518

So you are proud of Sanders efforts to get Trump elected Gothmog Dec 2016 #520

I'm saying that it is unrealistic... Kuhl Dec 2016 #521

In the past people running were actual members of the Democratic Party and cared about the Party Gothmog Dec 2016 #522

yes! this is exactly what I've been saying! nt JCanete Jan 2017 #536

Sanders tops list for most appearances on 2016 Sunday shows Gothmog Jan 2017 #534

Clinton 2008 vs. Sanders 2016: A comparison of what happened when the campaign ends Gothmog Jan 2017 #541

No, The Systems Not Totally Rigged. But That Idea Sure Helped Donald Trump. Gothmog Dec 2016 #494

He advanced a progressive agenda, but it was blocked at every turn by a republican congress. George II Dec 2016 #331

Yep WilliamH1474 Dec 2016 #41

The FBI would have been an issue if she had used a state dept email account stevenleser Dec 2016 #76

thank you for this. the BS people have fallen for and how the media covered this boston bean Dec 2016 #101

Thank you Steven Leser Hekate Dec 2016 #140

I guess we just see things differently WilliamH1474 Dec 2016 #157

There WASN'T classified material "emailed in the first place." All the targeted emails pnwmom Dec 2016 #171

Well, I see it right according to the facts which are not in dispute. It's not opinion. stevenleser Dec 2016 #246

+1000. n/t pnwmom Dec 2016 #170

Except, the classification issue might never have even erupted karynnj Dec 2016 #270

Nope, they would have altered their manufactured argument, but the outrage would have been the same stevenleser Dec 2016 #283

Every time it came up, people ask why it existed in the first place.. Kuhl Dec 2016 #327

Not sure if you mean the why the server existed OR why there was a classification issue karynnj Dec 2016 #341

Excellent post. It is amazing how successfully Republicans spread misinformation. StevieM Jan 2017 #540

The Political Media lost its mind this year: JHan Dec 2016 #117

I thank you for taking the time to write a great responce! WilliamH1474 Dec 2016 #161

Happy Holidays, hope you're enjoying it to the max :) JHan Dec 2016 #269

Well said... Bernie's positive contributions to the Democratic platform cannot be overstated. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #43

Bernie's contributions to the Democratic platform are overstated every day. baldguy Dec 2016 #184

Perhaps if the Democrats acted like Democrats once in a while, he wouldn't have felt the need. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #212

The idea that there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans is a RW lie. baldguy Dec 2016 #216

When did I say that? Perhaps before lobbing insults you should reread my post for understanding. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #251

When you say "...if the Democrats acted like Democrats...", who are they acting like then? baldguy Dec 2016 #257

Cowering bullied school children is who they act like. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #263

You're not above a little bullying yourself, though, huh? baldguy Dec 2016 #265

A few things Gore1FL Dec 2016 #266

Perhaps the Democratic party should join HIM. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #250

Exactly. nt Gore1FL Dec 2016 #267

He "chose" to continue representing his constituents truebluegreen Dec 2016 #290

He couldn't do that as a real Democrat? baldguy Dec 2016 #328

Can you read? He ran for Senator as an Independent, truebluegreen Dec 2016 #329

You seem to think there's something wrong with the Democratic Party baldguy Dec 2016 #330

I "seem"? Sanders "doesn't want"? truebluegreen Dec 2016 #338

+1 jack_krass Dec 2016 #73

She was right. Probably why he lost. Lil Missy Dec 2016 #149

If she was right, then she would have won the GE in a landslide. Exilednight Dec 2016 #220

Being right and losing are not mutually exclusive. Lil Missy Dec 2016 #322

It's nuts to say that electing the first woman President EVER didn't represent a sea change. pnwmom Dec 2016 #169

Sea change was achieved in 2008. Polls have shown that younger peopole do not believe Exilednight Dec 2016 #221

Polls can't prove that electing Hillary wouldn't have represented a sea change. pnwmom Dec 2016 #222

Look back at his platform. It was to the left of Hillary's in '08. Exilednight Dec 2016 #232

It wasn't to the left of Hillary's in 2016. You can't say a woman will be elected pnwmom Dec 2016 #236

Yes his platform was. Especially in foreign policy. Exilednight Dec 2016 #244

Of course Hillary's loss is a setback! A huge setback! pnwmom Dec 2016 #260

That's not true. Exilednight Dec 2016 #268

Nonsense. She would have won if James Comey hadn't dropped his letter bombs. pnwmom Dec 2016 #276

Could have, should have, would have. Exilednight Dec 2016 #281

Jobs, jobs, jobs. They analyzed her speeches and she talked about jobs pnwmom Dec 2016 #288

That's not a message, it's a word. Exilednight Dec 2016 #299

K & R SunSeeker Dec 2016 #14

100% agree apcalc Dec 2016 #18

+ 100 nt iluvtennis Dec 2016 #33

Trump gets elected, we all suffer bucolic_frolic Dec 2016 #19

That is one reason why BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #21

If the purists liquid diamond Dec 2016 #313

If they were the only ones BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #392

I really blame us, the voters LakeArenal Dec 2016 #22

It really is insane that HRC falling ill was treated like a scandal. The media and the GOP StevieM Dec 2016 #70

Fuckin' A Emilybemily Dec 2016 #23

DU has always been like that, sadly. Whether or not you support hillary,bernie, dean, dionysus Dec 2016 #25

Yup MFM008 Dec 2016 #26

I'm fucking sick of it too. betsuni Dec 2016 #28

What you said. BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2016 #30

Bernie had the enthusiasm and it was squashed. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #31

Bernie got outvoted Nonhlanhla Dec 2016 #36

Uh huh. Sure. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #48

umm what are you doubting? boston bean Dec 2016 #51

Anyone who acts like we can't have what we want. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #53

what? boston bean Dec 2016 #122

How was it (truthfully) "squashed"? George II Dec 2016 #38

The most obvious was DWS denying him access to his own database. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #47

After his campaign illegally breached Hillary's database? oh, ok? boston bean Dec 2016 #52

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #67

hahahaha.. oh gawd. boston bean Dec 2016 #68

Go back into the archives and see for yourself. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #69

no need. LOL boston bean Dec 2016 #71

Of course not. It would burst your bubble. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #72

It wouldn't be my bubble bursting. hahaha boston bean Dec 2016 #74

Remember THIS? Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #86

lmao! boston bean Dec 2016 #94

Obviously not. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #100

You want me to remember the time when bernie's campaign didn't illegally download his opponents boston bean Dec 2016 #103

That's because you are in a bubble. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #105

oh.. LOL boston bean Dec 2016 #107

It's why you lost. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #109

what's the reason? boston bean Dec 2016 #111

Believing reality is what you believe. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #126

Who lost? murielm99 Dec 2016 #136

Here we go with the "loyalty" crap again.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #143

WHOSE SIDE? murielm99 Dec 2016 #150

The arrogant side that STILL acts like Bernie supporters are the enemy. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #153

Then stop acting like an enemy. murielm99 Dec 2016 #154

"Bernie Sanders Withdraws Lawsuit Against DNC After Being Proven Correct About Data Breach" think Dec 2016 #155

Except the story says the opposite sweetloukillbot Dec 2016 #195

I quoted the article. You quoted the DNC's Luis Miranda. Miranda does not claim anything was stolen think Dec 2016 #209

LOL!!! You STILL are going around claiming Bernie hacked Hillary! Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #159

As long as you keep Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #182

Thank you. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #501

You've got it backwards. The correct thing to say is: "Our side didn't mobilize for Hillary." NBachers Dec 2016 #172

There are two sides BainsBane Dec 2016 #384

Awesome post. nt fleabiscuit Dec 2016 #386

Plus 1 million JustAnotherGen Dec 2016 #409

Thank you for posting this. I had missed it. /nt think Dec 2016 #145

I can't believe there are STILL people that claim Bernie hacked Hillary.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #158

You mean like the people who investigated the issue? sweetloukillbot Dec 2016 #196

That's the DNC's response. And he makes no claim anything was stolen or used improperly think Dec 2016 #213

It was not BainsBane Dec 2016 #385

A highly subjective "article" full of inaccuracies and glossed over details. George II Dec 2016 #332

Here you go, sir: George II Dec 2016 #373

Yes, that definitely stuck in my craw. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #57

his campaign workers breach into her database really stuck in my craw. boston bean Dec 2016 #60

Yeah, that was a stupid move, I'll give you that one... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #77

Bernie didn't have the class to concede to the first woman democratic nominee in our nations history boston bean Dec 2016 #78

Bernie conceded when it was clear there was no realistic path to victory... it may not have been soon enough for your liking, but then Hillary didn't quickly concede to Obama either. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #90

point me to the concession speech. you have a link to that? boston bean Dec 2016 #91

Your analysis is wrong Gothmog Dec 2016 #364

OMFG!! Why don't we just hang Bernie!! And let's mock and denigrate him AND his supporters EVERY chance we get, so we guaran-damn-tee ourselves the Dems NEVER win anotha election! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #371

If Sanders was the nominee he would have been destroyed in the general election Gothmog Dec 2016 #399

No way, no how... just the opposite! Bernie would've carved that Nazi racist pig up like a Hawaiian luau!! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #402

Sanders was a very weak general election candidate who would have been destroyed in the general Gothmog Dec 2016 #403

What stuck in my craw was the Sanders campaign hacking into the DNC database..... George II Dec 2016 #189

Yes, I already responded to that legitimate complaint above and, agreed, that was bad form... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #225

You do know why that happened, right? George II Dec 2016 #99

I'm sure you have the version with the vapors. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #104

I have the version that the Sanders campaign confessed to doing. You? George II Dec 2016 #190

Enough of this Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #180

Voters like you? Uponthegears Dec 2016 #201

and what Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #207

Tripe Uponthegears Dec 2016 #218

Excuse me Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #181

That was after Sanders campaign accessed confidential Clinton files Gothmog Dec 2016 #363

Liniment, Bengay, hotwater bottle obliviously Dec 2016 #133

WTH are you getting at? Bernie's a crotchety grandpa with a stoop, but I wouldn't ask if he ... Hekate Dec 2016 #142

What do our last two winners have in common obliviously Dec 2016 #144

Trump looks and acts old, so does Sanders. The youngest of the 3 is Hillary.... Hekate Dec 2016 #146

Yea Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #179

More than personally saddened, I'm saddened for our country. All the millions of Americans.... George II Dec 2016 #37

I hear you George. boston bean Dec 2016 #42

she lost against the worst candidate ever to run for the office. enough said bowens43 Dec 2016 #39

I have a feeling Bernie will get his shot to dethrone the Furher-Elect and fully expect Hillary's supporters to pledge their allegiance when the shoe is on the other foot. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #46

Not. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #102

Okay got it obliviously Dec 2016 #138

By that logic, you must be saying pemmican should not have run this time... okay, got it! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #141

Bernie is 74, so I doubt he'll run again. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #151

No need for ageism... besides 70's is the new 50's. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #228

It's not ageism. I'm old, too, and as such The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #229

So, using that logic, you could also argue we should elect only young, straight, white males to be our candidate, to avoid ageistic, homophobic, racist, mysogynistic bigots from voting against em... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #234

Whatever. The reality is that it's doubtful that a 78-year-old candidate would get elected. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #237

Okay TVO, again, using the logic of your argument, let's prove the bigots wrong again and run a 78-year-old candidate and get him elected... I love it! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #238

Not gonna happen, but you can dream on. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #242

Will he be running 3rd party? leftofcool Dec 2016 #185

Why would Bernie do that? That's silly! He's demonstrably shown his allegiance to the Democratic Party, while, at the same time, adeptly attracting independents... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #227

Well I would never "pledge my allegiance" to a candidate but if he is the nominee I will StevieM Jan 2017 #539

Sadly you are right. WilliamH1474 Dec 2016 #164

Schumer (at least) seems to have gotten the memo. Welcome to DU, WilliamH1474! JudyM Dec 2016 #256

Schumer's a smart politician. lapucelle Dec 2016 #352

Yup BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #176

exactly. + 1000 m-lekktor Dec 2016 #219

Her supporters? What an odd choice of words. lapucelle Dec 2016 #393

While the written DU rule against bashing Sanders is violated continually. JudyM Dec 2016 #255

Bernie lost... no scratch that... got his ass kicked Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #278

Amen, +1000. Paladin Dec 2016 #40

I feel you but humbled_opinion Dec 2016 #45

Bernie lost the primaries by nearly 3.5M votes. Can we please stop with this. boston bean Dec 2016 #49

Bernie had so much going for him and, yes, got shot down... fair or not, we had to accept it. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #50

you are going to be a very disappointed person. I'll leave it at that. boston bean Dec 2016 #54

Maybe, maybe not... but, couldn't be MORE disappointed than losing to the most despicable presidential candidate to EVER run for office. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #63

Bernie will be irrelevant as soon as his book tour is over. Count on that. boston bean Dec 2016 #65

How can you say that Bernie never conceded and supported Hillary BB? InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #83

can you point to his concession speech? boston bean Dec 2016 #85

I distinctly remember hearing it, as it was bitterly disappointing to say the least... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #96

provide the link and I will consider I am wrong. boston bean Dec 2016 #97

Here's the money quote from one of several of Bernie's concession speeches: InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #108

Prior to the convention, please. boston bean Dec 2016 #110

Oh lord. PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #112

After doing a lot of reading on this thread. WilliamH1474 Dec 2016 #168

Hillary did much over the past 40 years to support the Dem organization structure, without which NO duhneece Dec 2016 #214

Had Sanders or O'Malley been the Democratic nominee we would have learned that they are StevieM Dec 2016 #80

With Sanders they wouldn't have had to do much. 50% of the country consistently stevenleser Dec 2016 #92

May I borrow your crystal ball, please? TonyPDX Dec 2016 #249

No crystal ball is needed. Hillary crushed Bernie in Florida, Virginia, Pennsylvania stevenleser Dec 2016 #253

Hillary is only criticized here by the BoBs who hate her more than PEOTUS because she beat their god LonePirate Dec 2016 #55

yep. LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #62

I wasn't a Bernie supporter in the primaries and I have plenty of criticism for Hillary. YoungDemCA Dec 2016 #226

No. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #310

I'm a feminist who voted for Bernie Larkspur Dec 2016 #509

they will NOT let the primaries go! LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #58

They? truebluegreen Dec 2016 #291

yep LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #292

Pot, meet kettle truebluegreen Dec 2016 #293

Not at all... LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #296

That's my point. truebluegreen Dec 2016 #297

It's not a question of Bernie being better. KamaAina Dec 2016 #64

No one dislikes Clinton, and there were many factors. But to do an honest and complete analysis ALL RBInMaine Dec 2016 #79

Agree. ananda Dec 2016 #82

+ a million ananda! boston bean Dec 2016 #87

If you don't like Hilary criticism NobodyHere Dec 2016 #88

I don't mind truthful examination of facts. What we are seeing is a boston bean Dec 2016 #98

I'm with you boston bean... Guilded Lilly Dec 2016 #89

Yep, plus one million. nt stevenleser Dec 2016 #93

Go Boston! sheshe2 Dec 2016 #106

All those Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #113

Yup La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #205

I'm not seeing her constantly criticized... TreasonousBastard Dec 2016 #114

I am. boston bean Dec 2016 #119

Most are refraining from criticizing Hillary. HassleCat Dec 2016 #120

I agree that it is wrong to criticize Hillary for not being progressive enough etc. but... jimlup Dec 2016 #121

Obama's establishment? boston bean Dec 2016 #123

Hillary isn't jimlup Dec 2016 #125

Umm. Think about it. boston bean Dec 2016 #128

Think well! jimlup Dec 2016 #130

enough Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #175

That is pretty funny jimlup Dec 2016 #194

Yes Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #208

We don't jimlup Dec 2016 #211

Totally agree with you BB DownriverDem Dec 2016 #131

pro·gres·sive obliviously Dec 2016 #132

Thank you, boston! You know I love her. Cha Dec 2016 #139

She lost. That's why you see criticism. Tatiana Dec 2016 #147

That's it, exactly. OnionPatch Dec 2016 #240

Yes. Thank you. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #312

You are far from alone. nt fleabiscuit Dec 2016 #148

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #152

I've read a hundred posts like this.... RazBerryBeret Dec 2016 #156

Thank you Liberal_in_LA Dec 2016 #160

Divide and Conquer---the oldest GOP game in town. McCamy Taylor Dec 2016 #162

People on both sides are passionate about their candidates. You have been perfectly willing to fan JCanete Dec 2016 #166

They still don't realize what they've thrown away, Boston Bean, or the terror they've unleashed. NBachers Dec 2016 #173

i'm sick of it too. barbtries Dec 2016 #178

Great OP Gothmog Dec 2016 #183

DU rec...nt SidDithers Dec 2016 #186

I couldn't agree more. Littlered9560 Dec 2016 #187

Agreed on all points. democratisphere Dec 2016 #193

Part of the problem - as seen in the responses to this thread baldguy Dec 2016 #204

Agreed Baldguy Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #210

So fucking true La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #235

So fucking untrue.... jack_krass Dec 2016 #261

Critcizing Clinton doesn't mark one out as not being a real Democrat. baldguy Dec 2016 #264

QED truebluegreen Dec 2016 #294

Looking at this forum I don't see that many threads knocking her. hollowdweller Dec 2016 #217

Everything you point out is true randr Dec 2016 #223

The day of the neoliberal is passing. HassleCat Dec 2016 #277

Praise Dawg for that. truebluegreen Dec 2016 #295

Nothing about the Democratic Party is changing as a result of this election stevenleser Dec 2016 #303

Change is already in progress HassleCat Dec 2016 #308

Nope, it's not and it doesn't need to change. We got more votes. And what's more stevenleser Dec 2016 #311

I see your point HassleCat Dec 2016 #314

Sadly, it may be signing its own death warrant with that attitude. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #315

Nope, we won the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 national elections. We're fine. nt stevenleser Dec 2016 #317

Even God himself couldn't sink this ship. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #319

If you are going to go that far in mis-paraphrasing what I am saying, why bother coming to a stevenleser Dec 2016 #320

Okay. You're right. Everything's just fine. n/t Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #321

Look at where we stand down ballot - how bad does it have to get before we should be concerned? NT Midwestern Democrat Dec 2016 #323

So you are cherry-picking particular races and interpreting those races to get to your desired stevenleser Dec 2016 #335

Midterm turnout has always been lower than presidential turnout Midwestern Democrat Dec 2016 #342

For both parties, yes, everyone knows that. Except more Democrats stay home on midterms than stevenleser Dec 2016 #343

Christmas kick! mcar Dec 2016 #231

K and R...nt Stuart G Dec 2016 #239

Thank you for this Boston still_one Dec 2016 #241

Why not recommend the Merry Christmas Hillary thread instead? lostnfound Dec 2016 #245

And it kills me to come to a gathering place for democrats KPN Dec 2016 #247

k and r. (again) nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #248

I disagree, strongly. Shemp Howard Dec 2016 #258

Every campaign and candidate makes mistakes. The correct way stevenleser Dec 2016 #262

So, basically, she ran a B- campaign, at a time when we absolutely couldn't afford it. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #316

Nope. Not even close to what I was saying. nt stevenleser Dec 2016 #318

K & R revmclaren Dec 2016 #259

Hillary was underrated all her life. Let's not bear grudges but forge ahead with the women we have. ancianita Dec 2016 #271

It's not Secretary Clinton Ghost OF Trotsky Dec 2016 #273

Maybe you should consider learning how to handle setbacks just a bit mtnsnake Dec 2016 #274

If you put a car in the ditch on I-15 in broad daylight... Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #279

lulz Rex Dec 2016 #282

Are we saving all our empathy for white males these days? La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2017 #528

Post removed Post removed Jan 2017 #529

Lol. La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2017 #530

Yeah that is what I thought. Rex Jan 2017 #531

Aww La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2017 #532

Like Al Gore, SCantiGOP Dec 2016 #285

She proved in 2008 what a terrible campainer she was so Larkspur Dec 2016 #286

+3,000,000 votes over Trump, despite voter suppression. Sure, a terrible no good very bad campaigner Hekate Dec 2016 #353

HRC is not going to be the 45th President of the United States, so Larkspur Dec 2016 #426

She won the actual VOTE, Larkspur, by THREE MILLION OVER TRUMP. What part of that .... Hekate Dec 2016 #433

HRC's problem has always been developing a winning strategy based upon the rules of the contest Larkspur Dec 2016 #508

Well OK then.Your argument has totally won me over. Personally I think it was probably the pantsuits Hekate Dec 2016 #519

If 2016 Dem Primary was as open as the 2008 one, HRC would not have won the Dem nomination Larkspur Dec 2016 #527

It is difficult to see how we will get past this division. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #298

This is the 2016 Post Mortem Forum. We dissect the campaign and the candidate Arazi Dec 2016 #300

I see no plea for "special protection". NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #302

She ran a great campaign and had the whole thing won by a decisive margin with 11 days to go. StevieM Jan 2017 #537

I've posted this dozens of times ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #305

+3 million (votes over Trump) Nance Hekate Dec 2016 #354

Good luck with your voter outreach efforts! We certainly don't need more people voting for Dems! YoungDemCA Dec 2016 #359

What on earth ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #374

Great post Gothmog Dec 2016 #365

+1 betsuni Dec 2016 #366

A few months in liquid diamond Dec 2016 #306

If she was everything you say... Kuhl Dec 2016 #324

Nope, more like, if everything happened to other Democratic Prez candidates that happened to her stevenleser Dec 2016 #337

Isn't that the point though? Kuhl Dec 2016 #367

It IS the point, but not the point you seem determined to try to make. stevenleser Dec 2016 #368

Kicked! Reccomended! and Thank You! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #351

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #375

A real Democrat like Joe Manchin? TonyPDX Dec 2016 #377

2016 Post-Mortem isn't for you. Orsino Dec 2016 #388

Agreed Cosmocat Dec 2016 #407

Kick and rec boston! JustAnotherGen Dec 2016 #410

And yet, if we don't examine and learn from our mistakes Fiendish Thingy Dec 2016 #415

How can you do a postmortem if you keep insisting the corpse isn't really dead? The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #477

I, too, am sickened... SylviaD Dec 2016 #478

This place is turning into Bernie Underground again... SidDithers Dec 2016 #479

Agreed Gothmog Dec 2016 #511

At least now they can't hide truthful posts that they don't like. Lil Missy Jan 2017 #542

Even saw the "Hillary vacations with war criminal Kissinger and Bill golfs with Trump" betsuni Dec 2016 #481

Wish I could rec this to infinity theglammistress Jan 2017 #533

kick! LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #535