2016 Postmortem

KPN

(16,110 posts)

139. Nonsense? Fantasy? Reality based thinking?

Sat Dec 24, 2016, 02:37 PM

Dec 2016

Keep fooling yourself. Number one, I did read the articles you posted above. As I recall, they all said the same thing: Independent voters tend to vote partisan (largely representing former actual party affiliation in many cases) and that there are more Democratic leaning/favoring Independents than Republican.

Fact (not fantasy): Trump won Independents by 6 points.

How about some common sense around here.

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In all the "Bernie would have won/No he wouldn't" posts I've read........... [View all] socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 OP

Thanks for a post that actually considers the possibilities. HassleCat Dec 2016 #1

Yeah, I've noticed that........ socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #12

BULL FUCKIN SHIT !!!! COMEY, Voter Suppression and RUSSIA !! This was NOT a Free and Fair election!! uponit7771 Dec 2016 #2

What he said. shraby Dec 2016 #3

So what are you going to do about that?........ socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #5

Advocate for free and fair elections? uponit7771 Dec 2016 #7

Hey, I'll join you in that............ socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #11

I swear, I'm about ready to join you. Ligyron Dec 2016 #32

Me too! KPN Dec 2016 #37

Funny how everyone hates socialism... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #207

What does that have to do with the OP? nt Gore1FL Dec 2016 #18

The suppositions are useless seeing the same thing would've happened to Sanders or JFK or FDR uponit7771 Dec 2016 #29

I only got to see the election that actually happened. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #33

Lol. Funny but true. KPN Dec 2016 #38

lol... that's like saying, "... yes, the ref tripped the kid with the ball but the kid was too slow uponit7771 Dec 2016 #45

It might have been stopped if the ticket was better. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #52

Exactly WilliamH1474 Dec 2016 #69

So Sanders didn't have ANYTHING the GOP could've exploited an blown up out of proportion? tia uponit7771 Dec 2016 #81

Not to the extent that Clinton did. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #90

This is false on its face .... The university thing was just last year uponit7771 Dec 2016 #103

I am not sure what Trump University had to do with Clinton fatigue. Please explain. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #111

There were a lot of things I liked in both WilliamH1474 Dec 2016 #93

There were two things that Comey could've used that Clinton didn't but I'll leave that to uponit7771 Dec 2016 #104

Yep. And the GOP just bringing it up would have depressed the Dem vote. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #122

So what as long as its a good dynasty? and the majority of America liked the same cause that uponit7771 Dec 2016 #80

Not really. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #89

Nope quakerboy Dec 2016 #102

Nice :) MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #94

Links to actual proof of these charges kcdoug1 Dec 2016 #151

Not making any charges and Clinton's camp isn't not silent on the issue uponit7771 Dec 2016 #153

mmmm Blaming every one and every rumor on your candidate losing kcdoug1 Dec 2016 #154

If you have to ask, you wouln't understand anyway. n/t Lil Missy Dec 2016 #190

I am sure I would understand if it actually made sense relative to the OP Gore1FL Dec 2016 #192

Sure, but more Dem voters would overwhelm the cheats/hacks. Beartracks Dec 2016 #20

Not relative to the facts, we could have 8 trillion people who voted the GOP would've uponit7771 Dec 2016 #30

Spot on! Where's the megaphone? KPN Dec 2016 #40

Not if Cross Check took them off registration !! Does anyone know what they were doing!?!? uponit7771 Dec 2016 #47

And they won by 80,000 votes in 3 States. KPN Dec 2016 #55

Not with the other 2 factors added in, I'm not buying into the guessing games when the facts uponit7771 Dec 2016 #56

Not buying in? Despite the fact that probably millions of more votes KPN Dec 2016 #60

All 3 factors are fact, I'm not buying into the guessing and RWTP like the DNC didn't stand up uponit7771 Dec 2016 #62

Lol. RWTP my ass! KPN Dec 2016 #138

Preach it! dionysus Dec 2016 #158

True shenmue Dec 2016 #46

It's hardly ever a free and fair election. Anybody remember when Netanyahu campaigned for Romney? NWCorona Dec 2016 #76

Comey? sfwriter Dec 2016 #86

They made up something about Clinton Comey would've made up something about Sanders uponit7771 Dec 2016 #87

Reasonable, mature reaction to someone having a different opinion from you. MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #92

Yeap...Not going to put up with FUD memes... I'm proud I'm aware of these ... uponit7771 Dec 2016 #105

True, but I knew a lot Rw'ers who actually and surprisingly liked Bernie. They actually said they The Wielding Truth Dec 2016 #101

Not after Comey and Russia for some with him... Victim blaming sucks uponit7771 Dec 2016 #106

Definitely. The Comey thing was her death knell. I always say this nation has a two week memory and The Wielding Truth Dec 2016 #142

Yep. These "if wishes were horses" threads are ridiculous. I've trashed the word Squinch Dec 2016 #109

Is this post for real or satirization of Hillary can do no wrong crowd? aikoaiko Dec 2016 #187

Nah it's the this was not a free and fair election based on reality crowd uponit7771 Dec 2016 #188

Misinformation, lies, voter suppression, and October revelations are all part of GE game. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #191

Can you link and quote where a Comey level announcement, Russia hacking DNC and 41,000 uponit7771 Dec 2016 #193

Well, the Comey letter was substantially less severe than his previous statements aikoaiko Dec 2016 #194

Nate estimated a net 4 point shift after Comey memo uponit7771 Dec 2016 #196

That's not what he said Nov 6th. Is there a later 538 article? aikoaiko Dec 2016 #197

Yes, link inside dated Dec 11th uponit7771 Dec 2016 #198

He does blame the Comey in tweets after the fact. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #199

I don't blame Silver for not knowing Comey's level of treason or not predicting the level uponit7771 Dec 2016 #200

This assumes that all Clinton voters would have been on board for Sanders. lapucelle Dec 2016 #4

Nope, I would have expected a large percentage of Clinton voters......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #9

IMHO there's no way Bloomberg would have got in. Regardless of what he said NWCorona Dec 2016 #78

Sanders would have had to bring in all the Clinton voters +10 of the non-voters. lapucelle Dec 2016 #120

I never said he would have gotten all of the Clinton voters.......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #123

What you say is true, of course, along with several other reasons he could have won. Ron Green Dec 2016 #6

Sad but true realmirage Dec 2016 #8

DU reflected everything that was wrong with the Democrats in 2016 Gore1FL Dec 2016 #19

What Gore1FL said Plucketeer Dec 2016 #28

It sure seems that way. But I'm not going away. Neither KPN Dec 2016 #41

Sanders approach is the only winning way forward realmirage Dec 2016 #10

We have to back away from corporate welfare so we can call trump's administration out on it, too. JudyM Dec 2016 #13

Exactly. We've become too much like Republicans realmirage Dec 2016 #14

Non-Dems have always crazily said both parties are alike in their self-serving greed. We are losing JudyM Dec 2016 #113

Do you think there's a chance that might happen here at DU? KPN Dec 2016 #42

Exactly and that's why I liked Bernie. He didn't use his position to get connected to the trough NWCorona Dec 2016 #82

Yep, one of the few. Stunning that many don't see that in him. JudyM Dec 2016 #114

Exactly. We used to stand for our values. Now we apologize for them. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #23

You're subscribing to the myth of the "independent" voter. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #15

So it's always that ... we got our heads up our derriers because KPN Dec 2016 #44

As long as people subscribe to nonsense, there will be people to point it out. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #98

Nonsense? Fantasy? Reality based thinking? KPN Dec 2016 #139

No, there are more "independent" Republicans than "independent" Democrats. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #143

The figures I cited were from Gallup from a poll in 2015 (?)......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #161

The more important point is that you're misrepresenting who "independents" are. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #182

I misrepresented nothing. I made a distinct demarcation between "independents".......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #184

You did. This is how you described "independents": Garrett78 Dec 2016 #185

I think you're mistaking polarization for.... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #203

Logical or not, that's the reality. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #205

You make an excellent point. We need to focus on our base. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #144

And drop this false narrative about who "independents" are. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #147

Exactly. The GOP, despite their dwindling numbers, know to focus on their base to win. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #149

Interesting double standard among some DUers - those who assert Sanders would've lost because JudyM Dec 2016 #16

All that has been said a dozen times. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #17

+1000. n/t pnwmom Dec 2016 #22

Yes. radical noodle Dec 2016 #31

Very thoughtful, spot on. brush Dec 2016 #35

THIS. Maven Dec 2016 #53

You all are underestimating the role of populism or, said another way, KPN Dec 2016 #54

This socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #67

nm indeed. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #132

I pulled away after he was out Axolotls Dec 2016 #85

Ah. The drama. The drama. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #134

And ironically, so are those who supported and ordained Hillary before the primary season KPN Dec 2016 #140

Yep. We lost for a lot of reasons. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #145

Trump exemplifies, "hard work. Not a wave of the celebrity wand?" immoderate Dec 2016 #202

You are underestimating reality. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #131

You are living in your own false reality. KPN Dec 2016 #141

Hardly anything was said about Bernie's rape article, comments about Castro, etc. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #146

Your opinion only. KPN Dec 2016 #170

You do not have facts on your side. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #148

As I've written before, anyone who thinks Trump is a populist is batshit crazy. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #150

But a lot of people Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #156

Can't argue with that. But populism is what elected him. KPN Dec 2016 #168

As long as that uninformed belief is yours Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #179

Spare me the psychological drivel. KPN Dec 2016 #169

Whoa. Sorry I touched a nerve. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #178

I had several problems with Bernie myself...... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #65

Let me hear your problems with Bernie Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #136

My problems with Bernie? Firstly, HE WASN'T A SOCIALIST!!!!!!!... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #162

We will disagree it seems. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #167

One way or another, EVERY thing that you mentioned in your...... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #181

If you want to redefine Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #186

Liberals ARE the establishment......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #201

This guy has a hammer, see? Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #206

Given the numerous real skeletons in his closet, duffyduff Dec 2016 #77

What skeletons are those? NWCorona Dec 2016 #84

My two cents NWCorona Dec 2016 #83

Here's your change. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #137

Hillary had her surrogates trash Bernie NWCorona Dec 2016 #155

Tell yourself whatever you need Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #157

What's that saying about when you assume? NWCorona Dec 2016 #160

It's hard to follow your inconsistency. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #166

I jump from one side to the other because I respect both Hillary and Bernie NWCorona Dec 2016 #172

She didn't actually. He had no such qualms, he attacked her character, while echoing and synergie Dec 2016 #165

Brock said that it appears that black lives don't matter to Bernie NWCorona Dec 2016 #171

The facts do not support you on any point. synergie Dec 2016 #174

So are you saying that black lives don't matter to Bernie? NWCorona Dec 2016 #175

So when the claims fall apart based on facts, deliberate dishonesty is the go to? synergie Dec 2016 #176

Hardly. You seem to be justifying Brocks statement and I'd like NWCorona Dec 2016 #177

Why do you think Russia, Comey, et all would have let ANY Democrat pnwmom Dec 2016 #21

The dynamic would have been different. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #25

No, because Russia wanted their puppet DT. Bernie would NOT have fit the bill. pnwmom Dec 2016 #36

2106 wasn't all about Russia. Socialism isn't scary to those who can define it. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #50

Everything you are arguing is based on speculation about an untested candidate pnwmom Dec 2016 #58

Like Michigan? nt Gore1FL Dec 2016 #71

You do realize, right, that pointing to the exception only proves the rule? Garrett78 Dec 2016 #99

Yes, he did well in Michigan. What other diverse primaries? n/t pnwmom Dec 2016 #73

Of course they wouldn't. Trump was in the bag for Russia before he even KPN Dec 2016 #48

Don't you think that Bernie "would" have won if he "could" have won? world wide wally Dec 2016 #24

He didn't run. He supported the Democratic nominee. nt Gore1FL Dec 2016 #26

He waited till the convention to support her. Up till then, he was pnwmom Dec 2016 #39

Apparently Hillary didn't have Hillary's ability to build a diverse coalition, either. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #51

She did. She won 3 million more votes than DT, pnwmom Dec 2016 #57

Unfortunately, popular vote is not how presidential elections work in the U.S. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #70

And the primary loser doesn't get to be proclaimed the real winner. pnwmom Dec 2016 #75

No one made that claim. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #88

She was the stronger ticket. The fact that he could have possibly carried pnwmom Dec 2016 #91

If Clinton/Kaine was the strongest ticket the Democrats could have put together for 2016 then Gore1FL Dec 2016 #97

They would have won if James Comey hadn't broken all precedent and official policy pnwmom Dec 2016 #100

Maybe, maybe not. That, too, is speculation. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #110

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #27

Bernie was never tested in the general election. It's easy for his supporters pnwmom Dec 2016 #43

Women weren't even particularly enthusiastic backers of Clinton. MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #95

No. And she got almost 3 million more votes than DT -- but not enough pnwmom Dec 2016 #96

You're wrong. "Clinton only got the support of 54% of women -- compared to Obama's 55%." MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #119

You're wrong if you think exit polls are precise within one percentage point. pnwmom Dec 2016 #121

Exactly! KPN Dec 2016 #34

Bernie ran an insurgent campaign bucolic_frolic Dec 2016 #49

Yup. Kick and Rec eom Arazi Dec 2016 #59

I see it differently. I welcome a progressive wing. LisaM Dec 2016 #61

A few things here after reading all of the posts socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #63

The fact that Zephyr Teachout lost -- in New York -- kinda kills your theory. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #125

If they want to have something to do with treestar Dec 2016 #64

I'm sure the Whigs felt that way about their position on slavery...... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #66

He sucked at pulling in liquid diamond Dec 2016 #68

Bloomberg would have evenly split from both parties. Exilednight Dec 2016 #72

Bernie would not have won outside of Vermont. duffyduff Dec 2016 #74

If he was able to bring ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #79

"If he was able to bring... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #115

Poor Bernie ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #152

Bernie might have beat Trump, mostly from more excitement among white millennials. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #107

That "excitement among millenials" never treanslated into votes, otherwise Hillary woulsn't have lunamagica Dec 2016 #108

It's probably good they didn't vote more... since Clinton lost them to Trump. n/t Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #112

In most Democratic primaries, you had to be registered as......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #117

Yeah, I noticed that Bernie did worse in PA and FL compared to MI and WI. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #124

We will never know ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #116

Independent and discouraged voters who weren't ALLOWED to vote.......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #118

Clinton won more open primary states than Sanders. lapucelle Dec 2016 #126

Wisconsin? Michigan? Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #133

What states? It was Hillary's base, people of color and women, who couldn't vote. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #128

Sanders got less than 43% of the vote in the primaries Gothmog Dec 2016 #129

Bernie Sanders was on the ballot and unperformed Clinton Gothmog Dec 2016 #127

Exactly. The pharma reform initiative Bernie pushed in CA lost, while Hillary won by 30 points. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #130

You and others have got to let go of this false narrative regarding "independents." Garrett78 Dec 2016 #135

Oh look what I found in this thread, about Democrats. betsuni Dec 2016 #159

A lot of these things that have been said, we'll know about soon....... socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #163

LOL! betsuni Dec 2016 #164

Reaganism is a dogma that is never disavowed by Democratic candidates. immoderate Dec 2016 #204

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!! socialist_n_TN Dec 2016 #208

Why would those that live an easy life rock the boat? Rex Dec 2016 #173

But he lost. Democrats wanted a Democrat. Lil Missy Dec 2016 #180

If not for caucuses, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #183

And as time went on after March, Sanders was nothing but a hinderence, a deliberate spoiler. Lil Missy Dec 2016 #189

Sure, but we as a party weren't going to take that chance. Orsino Dec 2016 #195