2016 Postmortem

NewJeffCT

(56,840 posts)

60. all candidates are flawed - the party that nominates the more charismatic candidate wins.

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 03:49 PM

Dec 2016

2016 - the media is drawn to Trump like flies are to shit. He dominated the media coverage when it wasn't about the Clinton emails. Trump "wins" with almost $3 billion in free media coverage.

2012 - Obama over Romney; Obama is still the charismatic speaker and now a mature presence, while Romney is the aloof 47% guy.
2008 - Obama over McCain; Obama is the young charismatic speaker talking of hope and change, while McCain is old, gruff and rubs many the wrong way.

2000 - Bush was the "down home" guy you'd want to have a beer with, even if it was fake. Gore was smarter, but bland and boring.
2004 - Bush is still that down home guy and the war president. Kerry was smarter, but also bland and boring.

1996 - Bill Clinton was hands down more charismatic than Bob Dole
1992 - Young Bill Clinton was light years ahead of George HW Bush

1988 - The Charisma challenged George HW Bush beats the even stiffer and less charismatic Mike Dukakis. Reagan's coattails helped as well.

1984 - The charismatic Reagan went up against the smart, but bland and boring Mondale and buried him.
1980 - The charismatic Reagan went up against the smart, but bland and boring Carter and won handily.

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No. Bernie Sanders would not have beaten Trump [View all] bravenak Dec 2016 OP

I am willing to entertain the notion that both of them would have been weak candidates in the RDANGELO Dec 2016 #1

I can get with that idea bravenak Dec 2016 #3

Nobody trusted her but 66 some million voters, nearly 3 million more than Trump brush Dec 2016 #53

+1. n/t pnwmom Dec 2016 #136

all candidates are flawed - the party that nominates the more charismatic candidate wins. NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #60

Don't forget JFK & Nixon. The polls suggested that those who "listened" to the first jonno99 Dec 2016 #155

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #2

And long term reliable members rejected him bravenak Dec 2016 #5

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #7

I am a millennial and I am a longterm reliable voter bravenak Dec 2016 #11

Speak on it!!!!!! Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #23

Boy, these people, lol bravenak Dec 2016 #29

scream it. mopinko Dec 2016 #51

Brava! sheshe2 Dec 2016 #103

This post is so profound. liquid diamond Dec 2016 #204

I agree; it's unfair of them to expect treestar Dec 2016 #32

Yes!!! bravenak Dec 2016 #36

Conversely... Else You Are Mad Dec 2016 #4

It was more popular than Bernies and slightly less popular than Obama's bravenak Dec 2016 #6

We do not know that. Else You Are Mad Dec 2016 #8

They have no problem with Trump's Goldman Sachs cabinet so why would they vote Bernie? bravenak Dec 2016 #12

Except none of those "populist" DT voters care that he's putting all these Goldman Sachs pnwmom Dec 2016 #142

According to this, Sanders would have crushed Trump mtnsnake Dec 2016 #9

Us uncut is fake new imo bravenak Dec 2016 #13

What is fake about that analsyis? mtnsnake Dec 2016 #19

They have been reporting bullshit for months. I won't read them anymore. bravenak Dec 2016 #20

I'll take your word for it, bravenak mtnsnake Dec 2016 #44

I think nobody would have beaten Trump except Obama bravenak Dec 2016 #47

I think it will be easy to beat Trump in 2020 if the asshole is still in office mtnsnake Dec 2016 #56

I want Corey Booker to run, I really like his personality bravenak Dec 2016 #58

I never thought of them as a team even though they both top my list mtnsnake Dec 2016 #62

Either way they work it I will work my ass off bravenak Dec 2016 #66

I like them both mcar Dec 2016 #69

Love her bravenak Dec 2016 #79

Good for you bravenak. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #105

Her opponent was a shithead bravenak Dec 2016 #107

Yup... sheshe2 Dec 2016 #113

US Uncut is not fake news. Mr. Evil Dec 2016 #163

I said imo. In my opinion bravenak Dec 2016 #164

At best it is a liberal site that reports with a bias and often omits facts etherealtruth Dec 2016 #197

Fake news... revmclaren Dec 2016 #17

What exactly is fake about that article? mtnsnake Dec 2016 #21

I could say prove to me its true revmclaren Dec 2016 #25

Just as I thought. You couldn't come up with anything. mtnsnake Dec 2016 #34

dont have to prove anything to someone revmclaren Dec 2016 #95

same here mtnsnake Dec 2016 #102

USuncut? Really? Come on snake. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #28

Sorry, I thought the article made sense, but I didn't know they were fake news mtnsnake Dec 2016 #48

There's no way to know that. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #10

When people stop lying and saying Sanders would hav crushed it bravenak Dec 2016 #14

How is it a lie? TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #73

Because Sanders had not enough appeal to the democratic base bravenak Dec 2016 #76

The EC is the system that is in place. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #84

I never said she was going to be. Have fun beating yr strawmen bravenak Dec 2016 #85

You, too - your dead horse. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #88

an op is not a response. How the fuck can you tell at this point who the originator and who the JCanete Dec 2016 #186

Chill bravenak Dec 2016 #188

Bernie would have won. The DNC slowed his momentum by delaying the debates. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #15

Bullshit. He lost the debates bravenak Dec 2016 #16

His poll numbers steadily rose. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #18

Poll! Yay! Because polls were SPOT ON! Lol bravenak Dec 2016 #22

the polls are not perfect, but I'd rather go with the candidate with the double digit lead..... virtualobserver Dec 2016 #27

Sanders not vetted and was treated with kid gloves in the primaries Gothmog Dec 2016 #35

Sanders would have handled it. He would have made Trump look like a fool. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #41

Trump had a ton of good oppo on Sanders that would have killed him Gothmog Dec 2016 #123

nonsense virtualobserver Dec 2016 #140

THIS we can do it Dec 2016 #195

These polls were totally meaningless in the real world Gothmog Dec 2016 #30

Going with your candidate brought us Trump...that isn't hypothetical. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #37

And so was the man Clinton beat. bravenak Dec 2016 #43

In some states he did appeal to black voters. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #52

Ignoring the actual voters is how you lose bravenak Dec 2016 #54

A Hillary nomination brought us Trump. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #64

No. The electoral college brought us Trump bravenak Dec 2016 #67

Any intelligent campaign knows that it has to win the electoral vote virtualobserver Dec 2016 #72

And any intelligent campaign knows it must win a primary first to even think about a general bravenak Dec 2016 #78

the DNC delayed the debates to keep people from gaining momentum virtualobserver Dec 2016 #89

He could never win without the south. The black vote. How was he going to get that? bravenak Dec 2016 #91

He didn't have to win the south. He just had to do better in the south, and everywhere else. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #98

To win the primary he needed some of those southern states bravenak Dec 2016 #99

he didn't lose NH, and momentum is everything virtualobserver Dec 2016 #110

You think that we would have just voted for him because he got momentum from NH? bravenak Dec 2016 #117

It isn't about "following"...momentum makes the case for viability. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #133

Why. Would we have switched just because he won the two whitest states? bravenak Dec 2016 #135

you speak of this monolithic "we".... virtualobserver Dec 2016 #143

Not enough bravenak Dec 2016 #144

I disagree virtualobserver Dec 2016 #147

Where is your evidence that enough of us would have switched to the guy who called our bravenak Dec 2016 #149

where is your evidence that people wouldn't have? virtualobserver Dec 2016 #153

Impossible to prove a negative. Illogical too. bravenak Dec 2016 #156

The point is that neither of our positions can be proven to be correct virtualobserver Dec 2016 #160

Very true bravenak Dec 2016 #162

and we both have to live with Trump. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #165

I will be crying bravenak Dec 2016 #166

I agree..... virtualobserver Dec 2016 #169

No shit. He really fucked shit up. It's like handing it off to a mean ass six year old. bravenak Dec 2016 #173

Iowa and New Hampshire are two 90%+ white states Gothmog Dec 2016 #122

Where did HRC win in the South Lonusca Dec 2016 #200

Doesn't make sense treestar Dec 2016 #39

Bernie would have won independents. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #45

No surmise the Democratic party did not treestar Dec 2016 #46

I wasn't counting on anything. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #55

I don't even know what that means treestar Dec 2016 #61

He was completely unvetted mcar Dec 2016 #71

next to the reality of Trump....any "huge file" would have had no impact. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #75

That makes no sense mcar Dec 2016 #80

your "huge file" on Bernie is in your imagination virtualobserver Dec 2016 #93

Wrong mcar Dec 2016 #157

Most of Sanders so-called victories were in caucus states Gothmog Dec 2016 #24

I agree bravenak Dec 2016 #31

Michigan was also an open primary NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #63

There was no doubt some cross over by GOP types to mess up the nomination process Gothmog Dec 2016 #118

I agree bravenak Dec 2016 #177

I bet to differ... Joe941 Dec 2016 #26

She still did not need them to be way way way past him in delegate totals so.... bravenak Dec 2016 #33

Super delegates would have supported Bernie if he had been leading in pledged delegates tammywammy Dec 2016 #38

You are using facts against a silly talking point that has no basis in reality Gothmog Dec 2016 #116

Super delegates did not come into play because sanders only got 43% of primary popular vote Gothmog Dec 2016 #40

The point is when the news... Joe941 Dec 2016 #42

That did not happen in the real world Gothmog Dec 2016 #115

I disagree with your logic... Joe941 Dec 2016 #128

I was a delegate to the national convention Gothmog Dec 2016 #139

Fans of Obama and Edwards also said that 2008 was rigged NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #65

as our new President often says "WRONG" bowens43 Dec 2016 #49

He's not my fucking President bravenak Dec 2016 #50

quoting trump revmclaren Dec 2016 #109

Yup, he would have easily won Arazi Dec 2016 #57

Without minority voters feeling enthused? Yeah right bravenak Dec 2016 #59

That didn't really work out for Hillary either. progressoid Dec 2016 #70

And less than with any candidate besides obama. Remember that bravenak Dec 2016 #81

And the Latino vote? progressoid Dec 2016 #94

She got the majority of it. Check the numbers bravenak Dec 2016 #97

But it was still a drop from 4 years ago. progressoid Dec 2016 #108

They only voted so high for dems because of obama. The way people act now bravenak Dec 2016 #119

He would not have won mcar Dec 2016 #68

You are so right bravenak Dec 2016 #83

And yet it's claimed over and over here mcar Dec 2016 #87

I am super bored with it bravenak Dec 2016 #92

Me too mcar Dec 2016 #158

This wasn't about platforms. iscooterliberally Dec 2016 #74

Do whatever you need to deflect attention from your loss. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #77

My loss? Did you somehow win while the rest of us lost bigly? bravenak Dec 2016 #82

You don't seem to be able to accept it. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #86

More strawmen to abuse. I never said any of that or wished anything here bravenak Dec 2016 #90

My anger has passed. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #130

You a mind reader too? bravenak Dec 2016 #131

People don't generally comment about this, but... Mike Nelson Dec 2016 #96

Absolutely bravenak Dec 2016 #101

Hillary had astronomical unfavorable ratings for a Presidential candidate. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #100

When are you going to layoff Bernie Sanders, bravenak? Chasstev365 Dec 2016 #104

Ask huffpo bravenak Dec 2016 #106

He would have won handily. Deal with it. Schema Thing Dec 2016 #111

I have accepted he would have lost. You should accept that he did. Handily. bravenak Dec 2016 #114

Excellent article, bravenak. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #112

Thank you bravenak Dec 2016 #120

Backatcha. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #121

I think he could've oberliner Dec 2016 #124

He would have gone full blown stormfront on Bernie bravenak Dec 2016 #125

Yes, it would have been ugly oberliner Dec 2016 #127

Sanders was on the ballot and underpreformed Clinton Gothmog Dec 2016 #126

We would have lost forty states bravenak Dec 2016 #134

I agree Gothmog Dec 2016 #203

Bravenak you are dead wrong TaterBake Dec 2016 #129

Polls, yay!! They were so perfect!! Lol bravenak Dec 2016 #132

They showed her within margin of error with tRump, which is where she ended up. They showed JudyM Dec 2016 #167

Those polls were done in Nov showing Bernie ten points ahead? bravenak Dec 2016 #171

Ha! Doesn't matter, they were 10points beyond the MOE, consistently. That many more likely JudyM Dec 2016 #175

Polls from what, April? Not valid bravenak Dec 2016 #178

If you say so it must be right. JudyM Dec 2016 #182

Half corporate party? ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #187

Why the hell do liquid diamond Dec 2016 #205

People throwing around absolutes really need to stop. We will never know. Get over it NWCorona Dec 2016 #137

I really don't think either of them would have won bravenak Dec 2016 #138

The underlying and hidden metrics were always in Trump's favor NWCorona Dec 2016 #159

I agree bravenak Dec 2016 #161

I would never say he gave up but he did move resources else where but by that point NWCorona Dec 2016 #172

Exactly. You got that right bravenak Dec 2016 #174

whup it out! Cryptoad Dec 2016 #141

I know bravenak Dec 2016 #145

I just wonder how Bernie would have responded when Comey opened an investigation of his ties world wide wally Dec 2016 #146

He would have said the DNC rigged the FBI bravenak Dec 2016 #148

This thread brought to you by the people who said Clinton would win in a landslide. nt Gore1FL Dec 2016 #150

I was not the writer of those ops bravenak Dec 2016 #151

Did you not think she was going to win, or just not in a landslide? nt Gore1FL Dec 2016 #152

I thought she would until Comey bravenak Dec 2016 #154

I had my concerns all the way through due to the voter rejection of political dynasties. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #168

All of this is speculation. We need new blood bravenak Dec 2016 #170

Of course it is all speculation. Hence my criticism of your OP. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #193

Sanders' message was clearly rejected. The 70,000-something people spread over R B Garr Dec 2016 #180

If you say so. I don't recall him runnning in the general election to know if he was rejected. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #192

The 70,000-something voters who decided this election voted R B Garr Dec 2016 #194

Those 70,000-something didn't vote for a lot of people where were not running besides Sanders. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #198

I believe that Bernie would have won. But, the election is over and Trump won. DemocraticWing Dec 2016 #176

Good on you bravenak Dec 2016 #179

Agreed, brave! I guess it bears repeating until the fantasyland relating to him R B Garr Dec 2016 #181

Right? The manson/trump side by side tells the tale bravenak Dec 2016 #184

Anyone who definitively claims to know whether Bernie would have lost or won has little credibility. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #183

Nobody knows for sure bravenak Dec 2016 #185

We did do that. forjusticethunders Dec 2016 #196

I dont think so. Given her history there was no shifting to economic issues aikoaiko Dec 2016 #202

Hillary headed a ticket that did poorly quaker bill Dec 2016 #189

I must respectfully disagree... gregcrawford Dec 2016 #190

Yes. Bernie Sander would have beaten Trump Devil Child Dec 2016 #191

You're wrong. PA, MI and WI... SMC22307 Dec 2016 #199

We don't get to know that. Orsino Dec 2016 #201

Truth! And, Marcus lays it out with FACTS.. So glad I saw this!! Cha Dec 2016 #206

Nope your wrong. Bernie would have beaten Trump jack_krass Dec 2016 #207