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Gothmog

(154,470 posts)
55. Another strawman-there are very valid reasons why Sanders did not do well with AA and other votes
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 09:36 AM
Dec 2016

Your strawman arguments are amusing. The Sanders campaign did not appeal to many demographic groups (including the Jewish vote) for a host of reasons. One good reason is that Sanders repeatedly attacked President Obama which alienated a large number of key demographic groups. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics

But lurking behind this argument about the future is a dispute that's really about the past. It’s a debate over what Obama accomplished in office -- in particular, how significant those accomplishments really are. And it's been simmering on the left for most of the last seven years.

On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only he’d fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.

They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.

On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.

It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.

Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (me included) and many African American Democratic voters did not support Sanders.

I understand why Sanders supporters dislike talking about demographics but the fact remain that Sanders supporters tend to not like President Obama and that dislike affected the amount of support that Sanders got from certain demographic groups. The other so called reasons advanced for a lack of Sanders support in the above post are strawmen that can be explained by the concept of projection.
One thing I've been amazed by... vi5 Dec 2016 #1
Excellent points! Docreed2003 Dec 2016 #4
Oh bullshit. OilemFirchen Dec 2016 #6
So it wasn't voter suppression or ID laws? vi5 Dec 2016 #8
There were a ton of factors. OilemFirchen Dec 2016 #13
In most states, just about anything will suffice for an ID, even a utility bill. Hoyt Dec 2016 #27
I don't disagree.... vi5 Dec 2016 #50
Hello, neighbor! Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #26
The work I saw with the Clinton campaign was about registering to vote NOT GOTV csziggy Dec 2016 #56
Trump used this bogus claim to great effect Gothmog Dec 2016 #2
The problem is that it wasn't "bogus" - the system IS rigged. forjusticethunders Dec 2016 #5
There are two problems-first Sanders had no chance of being the nominee and the DNC did not fix race Gothmog Dec 2016 #7
You misunderstand - Sanders's entire point was that both parties were doing the "rigging". forjusticethunders Dec 2016 #34
The system was rigged against Bernie. Joe941 Dec 2016 #9
How? Sanders lost due to the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected him Gothmog Dec 2016 #14
Super delegates cost him the primaries - totally changed how the primary progressed! Joe941 Dec 2016 #52
Super delegates had nothing to do with Sanders lost Gothmog Dec 2016 #54
You assume starting out with a 700 delegate lead has no bearing on the rest of the race. It changes Joe941 Dec 2016 #57
Sanders got less than 43% of the popular vote in the primaries Gothmog Dec 2016 #58
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Trump was always going to say exactly what he said. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #15
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This is how I see it... Docreed2003 Dec 2016 #3
Strange how the "system is rigged" choir has fallen silent. ucrdem Dec 2016 #10
Are you going to claim that our economic system isn't tilted towards the wealthy, "rigged", if you dionysus Dec 2016 #11
It's a revelation to you that the wealthy have more money than the rest of us? ucrdem Dec 2016 #12
It's not as simple as "the wealthy have more money than the rest of us". Never has been. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #17
Wow, you seem a trifle upset. I suppose if trump said the sky was blue, after dionysus Dec 2016 #18
Dayum I lve you. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #31
Heya sheshe!!! ucrdem Dec 2016 #33
Thank you... sheshe2 Dec 2016 #36
backatcha sheshe ucrdem Dec 2016 #42
It hasn't. Sanders supporters have been just as outspoken about the bogusness of Trump's "victory" Ken Burch Dec 2016 #16
These giys have to blame someone, something, for this loss (other than dionysus Dec 2016 #19
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That's a lot of straw. By that turn, i could say liberals aren't president of the college dionysus Dec 2016 #23
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She lost any right to claim she cared more than Bernie about civil rights Ken Burch Dec 2016 #28
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He was upset because they disrupted the event for no good reason Ken Burch Dec 2016 #37
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At the time, Hillary hadn't said anything explicitly in support of BLM Ken Burch Dec 2016 #40
What happened to our friend? Was the strain of this post more than they could bear? dionysus Dec 2016 #48
You mean he didn't usher them backstage, and wag his finger at them? dionysus Dec 2016 #46
Bernie was equal to Hillary in his civil rights commitment. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #30
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Actually, he made speaking out about racism a standard part of his stump speech Ken Burch Dec 2016 #41
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There's no way you can seriously argue he wasn't to the left of HRC. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #45
Another strawman-there are very valid reasons why Sanders did not do well with AA and other votes Gothmog Dec 2016 #55
Bravo/ Brava! sheshe2 Dec 2016 #32
You are honestly saying with a straight face that MANY BernieBros Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #47
Actually yes. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #60
You and I exist on different planets Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #61
Many of them have been, yes. kcr Dec 2016 #51
Nothing. The Electoral College system is rigged to make the votes pnwmom Dec 2016 #25
Thank you. It's the last vestige of the slave system. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #29
Elizabeth Warren says 'the system is rigged' (2012) think Dec 2016 #44
Because it's mostly a backlash against things like a Black President and Women and others gaining JI7 Dec 2016 #49
It has nothing to do with banks rigging markets, becoming felons, and no one going to jail? think Dec 2016 #53
Apparently you never listened to an entire Clinton speech emulatorloo Dec 2016 #59
The system's having been rigged is why we're all here. It's not open to debate. Orsino Dec 2016 #62
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