2016 Postmortem

Gothmog

(154,590 posts)

162. Denial is not just a river in Africa

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:39 AM

Dec 2016

Sanders would have lost the electoral and popular vote to trump by a wide margin. Sanders would have been a very very weak general election candidate

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Bernie Sanders Would Have Lost the Election in a Landslide [View all] brooklynite Dec 2016 OP

Why relitigate the primaries AGAIN?? The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #1

This is the post-mortem folder; others keep raising the "what if" question. brooklynite Dec 2016 #4

Our real focus needs to be on coming together! RiverStone Dec 2016 #45

+1! tecelote Dec 2016 #56

Since pro-Sanders posts ("he woulda won") are rife here these days stopbush Dec 2016 #55

I see the claim that Bernie would have won over and over every day. pnwmom Dec 2016 #59

I hadn't noticed them but I would have asked the same question. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #68

Because some Bernie Bros insist on it. n/t Lil Missy Dec 2016 #126

I think it's because Hillary supporters are are trying to control the narrative TransitJohn Dec 2016 #174

We will never know for sure, will we? TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #2

Trump would have killed Sanders in the general election Gothmog Dec 2016 #3

You posted this earlier today. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #5

People need to see this so they're not deluded. He would have gotten creamed. Dream Girl Dec 2016 #113

There's no way to know that. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #119

Sanders was a very weak general election candidate who would have been destroyed in the general Gothmog Dec 2016 #154

Sanders had a free ride in the primaries and would had been destroyed in the general election Gothmog Dec 2016 #155

That is pure speculation, TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #158

You are wrong-Sanders under performed Clinton Gothmog Dec 2016 #163

And Clinton lost to Trump, TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #167

Sanders was a very weak general election candidate who would have been destroyed in the general Gothmog Dec 2016 #168

and Hillary wasn't defeated? TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #171

cheated is different than defeated. LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #178

Trump also killed Hillary in the general election The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #8

She won the popular vote by 3 million votes Gothmog Dec 2016 #30

There's no way to know what would have happened The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #31

Only with the help of the Kremlin, the FBI and 25 years of smears.(nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #54

+1000 complain jane Dec 2016 #101

And after all of that, complain jane Dec 2016 #102

Trump had oppo on him that should have taken anyone down. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #11

Trump's supporters would support him through anything - it's not what he does, but WHO he is. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #135

EXACTLY, and the media propped him up. The D's could have offered Jesus H. Christ and LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #177

I tend to agree NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #16

Trump got elected after bragging out loud about grabbing p***y and you think "opposition research" yodermon Dec 2016 #21

I keep hearing about this Op Research folder, but no one has been able to produce it. Exilednight Dec 2016 #38

The Senate is not a national election. He fits in well in Vermont brush Dec 2016 #69

There's only 100 Senate seats. Both parties are fighting to the bitter end to get to the magic Exilednight Dec 2016 #79

You're assuming that Republicans had the research in 2012. lapucelle Dec 2016 #94

Some of that oppo goes back to the '80s. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #137

Not the "environmental racism" charge that Republicans were planning to launch. lapucelle Dec 2016 #138

The environmental racism charge goes back to 1998. So, yes, they would have had it. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #142

You point was about stuff going back to the 1980's, not 1998. lapucelle Dec 2016 #150

Some of it.. eilen Dec 2016 #76

And where did you get this info from? Exilednight Dec 2016 #80

It came from here: Garrett78 Dec 2016 #124

You have an editorial piece written in Newsweek? That's it? Exilednight Dec 2016 #125

You asked where that quote had come from. I answered on eilen's behalf. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #131

So there is no proof the book exists. Thanks, that's all I was wondering. Exilednight Dec 2016 #133

Subtle move of the goalposts on your part. Nice job. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #165

I moved nothing. if the book exists then let's see it. Exilednight Dec 2016 #166

Sanders wasn't the nominee, so expecting all the oppo research to be revealed is silly. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #190

they would have used it take his Senate seat if it existed. Exilednight Dec 2016 #196

He wasn't up for re-election, and Vermont is not equivalent to the US. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #197

every seat un the senate us valuable. Exilednight Dec 2016 #198

And perhaps that oppo research will be a problem for him when he's up for re-election. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #199

Not just an op-ed, but by a very good investigative reporter. He saw it. And so much of it is public ehrnst Dec 2016 #140

You know all this stuff was pushed by Clinton surrogates on media, cable tv, etc. and here on Du. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #169

I was responding to people here who doubted its existence. I posted links. ehrnst Dec 2016 #175

More on that Oppo folder: ehrnst Dec 2016 #136

That's not a news article, it's an editorial piece. Exilednight Dec 2016 #146

You think that White, lefty, rural VT cares if he supported the Sandinistas? It exists: ehrnst Dec 2016 #147

Seriously? This is all you have? Exilednight Dec 2016 #148

I understand that the GOP had more. And seriously.... ehrnst Dec 2016 #149

it depends on the candidate. Exilednight Dec 2016 #152

Ask Nader how that turned out for him. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #153

All of that material would have made very effective negative ads Gothmog Dec 2016 #208

The important thing to understand is that the GOP would NOT have run against Sanders or O'Malley StevieM Dec 2016 #6

Sanders did lose the election. David__77 Dec 2016 #7

I have major grievances with Bernie's rhetoric in the primaries Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #9

with your logic he should never entered the race. b/c he had no chance of winning juxtaposed Dec 2016 #13

???? Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #15

Sanders was practically eliminated after the first Super Tuesday NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #18

b/c hrc was so strong in the polls? juxtaposed Dec 2016 #24

No, because she was so far ahead in delegates after Super Tuesday NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #35

Sander was mathematically eliminated on Super Tuesday Gothmog Dec 2016 #32

He wasn't technically eliminated mathematically. But the writing was on the wall. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #132

Clinton had a greater lead that President Obama had over Clinton at this point Gothmog Dec 2016 #156

I understand and agree. But "mathematically eliminated" means something specific. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #187

As a practical matter, the lead was far too great to overcome Gothmog Dec 2016 #189

it is your logic-- embrase it juxtaposed Dec 2016 #25

Spin it however you want, Sanders Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #33

hrc lost.. could sanders have won, i don't know? but do not push bull shit if you have ones head juxtaposed Dec 2016 #37

Yeah yeah Bernie can do no wrong Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #40

HRC hung around the 2008 primaries long after the math proved she could not win Larkspur Dec 2016 #29

The 2008 primaries Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #39

She was terrible Larkspur Dec 2016 #110

Still going with the "Bernie Wuz Robbed!" meme, huh? Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #122

It helps to build the legend ehrnst Dec 2016 #176

I was pissed! Pisces Dec 2016 #130

See post #6. The repugs would play every dirty trick in the book . . . brush Dec 2016 #74

Yeah and I bet you said that Obama could not win in 2008 Larkspur Dec 2016 #111

No. He didn't have the baggage Bernie had. And he won the nomination. brush Dec 2016 #112

People of color? Not so much. Dream Girl Dec 2016 #114

everyone knows sanders would have crushed trump, with all of hrc supporters as a juxtaposed Dec 2016 #10

"There's not a snowball's chance that he could have won the presidency" hmmmm... progressoid Dec 2016 #12

The same way Hillary lost with all of Sanders supporters. After HRC conceded Thinkingabout Dec 2016 #53

Sure. Except that the parts that DIDN'T happen. progressoid Dec 2016 #96

Did Sanders nominate Hillary on the floor at the convention? Thinkingabout Dec 2016 #120

Sanders was busy negotiating for a private jet from the DNC to release his delegates. ehrnst Dec 2016 #144

LBJ was much more liberal than most of the rest Buzz cook Dec 2016 #14

Everybody with common sense knows this bravenak Dec 2016 #17

Common sense is just that... common ThirdEye Dec 2016 #27

Hillary did actually beat Trump in vote totals. bravenak Dec 2016 #34

The most salient statement in your post NWCorona Dec 2016 #19

And what fomented the loss of Indys, X-Over Reps and Millennials? HRC selecting Kaine over Sanders TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #20

A good analysis, IMHO Ghost OF Trotsky Dec 2016 #47

Excellent Analyst! LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #88

Outstanding analysis and points. Tatiana Dec 2016 #97

Horsepoo. Kerry would be far more on the liberal scale - next to McGovern. blm Dec 2016 #22

Misrepresentation of Kerry's voting record and career on DU bugs the shit out of me. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #28

Thank you karynnj Dec 2016 #72

Truly, there was no chance of Trump winning in any previous cycle, you have to admit. JCanete Dec 2016 #23

I would've paid good money to see a Sanders/Trump debate. MgtPA Dec 2016 #62

Trump would have called him names, blurted out moronic bumper sticker slogans complain jane Dec 2016 #103

Mother Jones Oct 25th 2016 : Bernie Sanders Is the Most Popular Politician in America think Dec 2016 #26

The GOP hadn't wasted one minute attacking Bernie. Why should they? pnwmom Dec 2016 #63

Exactly. :) JudyM Dec 2016 #117

Bernie Sanders Was On The 2016 Ballot And He Underperformed Hillary Clinton Gothmog Dec 2016 #36

Thanks for posting these facts, BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #121

Sanders is not currently a member of the Democratic Party Gothmog Dec 2016 #157

Nothing epitomizes my BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #161

I agree Gothmog Dec 2016 #191

No, I am one of the very BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #192

Texas will turn blue eventually Gothmog Dec 2016 #193

That is great to hear! BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #194

Maybe, maybe not. Nearly every Tяцмр voter I know wanted Bernie first. MadamPresident Dec 2016 #41

But the vast majority of DT voters were the same Rethugs who always vote GOP. pnwmom Dec 2016 #60

Your analysis has no bearing on this election lastone Dec 2016 #42

That's right!!! Bernie would have lost by 300,000,000 votes, or something. tom_kelly Dec 2016 #43

I've been saying this all along bucolic_frolic Dec 2016 #44

You also gave Hillary a 99.999999% of winning the general. closeupready Dec 2016 #46

I tend to agree, but this was a weird year, so who knows Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #48

Is this where you tell us the only chance is to move Bettie Dec 2016 #49

yeah, nobody really liked Sanders anyway.... mike_c Dec 2016 #50

Exactly. DeeDeeNY Dec 2016 #89

From the people who brought you "Hillary will win in a landslide." nt Gore1FL Dec 2016 #51

Exactly shawn703 Dec 2016 #61

She did. complain jane Dec 2016 #104

A 2% pop vote victory with 48% overall along with a lost electoral college isn't a landslide. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #109

Bernie Sanders Lost the Election in a Landslide. stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #52

Kevin Drum melman Dec 2016 #57

Nice try shawn703 Dec 2016 #58

Contra-factual. n/t malthaussen Dec 2016 #64

Everyone has an opinion. CentralMass Dec 2016 #65

Postmortem is not to re-hash primary angrychair Dec 2016 #66

Lol, hilarious and wrong Arazi Dec 2016 #67

Ya think? nt Autumn Dec 2016 #70

Can't let it go can ya? retrowire Dec 2016 #71

not sure AlexSFCA Dec 2016 #73

I'd rather have lost fighting for what I really believe in Dems to Win Dec 2016 #75

I'd give this more credence if it didn't come from the same guy telling us... hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #77

Good Catch!! LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #90

I think we might have won if Bernie was Hillary's VP pick. It could have brought us together for the TeamPooka Dec 2016 #78

I guess your graph explains a couple things HassleCat Dec 2016 #81

They said a lot of things about Trump. mwooldri Dec 2016 #82

More predictions in a unpredictable season... lame54 Dec 2016 #83

Bullshit!!! LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #84

and HRC supporters have to post such to assure Dems and progressives NEVER win, elleng Dec 2016 #85

The same conventional wisdom that told us Jeb! would for sure win the GOP nod. Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #86

brooklynite, your accuracy with alternative outcomes paleotn Dec 2016 #87

It's a fools errand to speculate. what if all thousands of millenials napi21 Dec 2016 #91

first off DonCoquixote Dec 2016 #92

You cannot connect the dots and say that. Total BS. Bernie had the six man "momentum zonkers Dec 2016 #93

It was an outsider year and Bernie is perceived as an outsider. Vinca Dec 2016 #95

OK...Whatever helps you sleep...I work with 7 Trump voters in NC and masmdu Dec 2016 #98

Bullshit jfern Dec 2016 #99

This was the only election where Trump could have won quaker bill Dec 2016 #100

I think complain jane Dec 2016 #105

Bernie more liberal than Kennedy? Who sent the Civil Rights Act to Congress in 1963? ucrdem Dec 2016 #106

He wouldn't have lost Michigan, and I doubt he would have lost WI Yo_Mama Dec 2016 #107

The nation that could have nominated Sanders would be different. Orsino Dec 2016 #108

lol (nt) YoungDemCA Dec 2016 #115

But seriously: this notion that an "aging Jewish Socialist" could never have won... YoungDemCA Dec 2016 #116

Exactly, he would have lost big league. He was divisive and in the end, R B Garr Dec 2016 #118

So all the Democratic Party winners were significantly more liberal than Congress! andym Dec 2016 #123

Maybe. Maybe not... SidDithers Dec 2016 #127

The dirt Trump... Mike Nelson Dec 2016 #128

Hmmm Axolotls Dec 2016 #129

The only reason Trump won is he ran against another candidate with disapproval numbers... Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #134

Some people love this kind of stuff. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #139

All the polls showed Bernie performing better than Hillary. Joe941 Dec 2016 #141

Notice how nobody wanted to admit the truth of your post? realmirage Dec 2016 #180

We never get to know. Orsino Dec 2016 #143

No, he wouldn't. budkin Dec 2016 #145

How many people gave Donald Trump a "snowball's chance" he would be winning the Presidency... PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #151

Just like the primary. Cha Dec 2016 #159

You forget an important point: Bernie Would Have Won DemocraticWing Dec 2016 #160

Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Dec 2016 #162

Evidence? YoungDemCA Dec 2016 #170

Clinton out performed Sanders in the general Gothmog Dec 2016 #186

Perhaps they should rename the river "Bernie Would Have Won" DemocraticWing Dec 2016 #183

Good idea Gothmog Dec 2016 #185

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #164

It's an inherently dumb question forjusticethunders Dec 2016 #172

I see what you mean and have been trying to show that. LiberalFighter Dec 2016 #173

In two different alternate realities ymetca Dec 2016 #179

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #181

I've several issues with this... Lithos Dec 2016 #182

We lost because the other side doesn't trash their base. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #184

What metric are you using, may I ask? GoldenThunder Dec 2016 #188

Yes he would have lost in a big way. Not to mention they had not even begun to vet Sanders. Lil Missy Dec 2016 #195

HuffPo had a piece about his popularity only being a result of him never being attacked. R B Garr Dec 2016 #200

Sanders was treated with kid gloves in the primary by the Clinton team Gothmog Dec 2016 #203

Thank you for this excellent reminder. It's a real insight into just how easy Sanders had it. R B Garr Dec 2016 #206

The fact that Sanders never disclosed his taxes is amazing Gothmog Dec 2016 #207

Sanders did very poorly in the popular vote in the primaries Gothmog Dec 2016 #201

Would a Clinton/Sanders ticket have won? citood Dec 2016 #202

I doubt it. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #209

This assumes Congress is in touch with the people, they are not ck4829 Dec 2016 #204

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #205