2016 Postmortem

mike_c

(36,332 posts)

127. by the end of the day today Trump will officially be president elect....

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 05:22 PM

Dec 2016

So any notion that Senator Clinton somehow "won" the election is just plain fantasy. I'll believe it when she's inaugurated. She did win more popularity contest votes than Trump did, that's true, but it's also true that bar is the lowest standard ever in American electoral history, and she still won't be inevitable tomorrow, despite Trumps historic unfitness for office. Those "3 million votes" mean nothing. The Constitution is pretty clear on that.

Why are democrats so adamant about living in a political fantasy world? Senator Clinton chundered. She cratered and brought down all hope of progressive democratic reform with her. The DNC that insisted she was The Inevitable One destroyed democratic hopes for at least four years. That is the reality.

The party establishment needs to understand that. It needs its nose rubbed in it until it gets it-- every presidential election since Bill Clinton's term has been a repudiation of establishment politics. The democratic party has not run a successful party insider since (while Barack Obama has redefined what establishment politics means-- much the same way Bill Clinton did, BTW--he was a dark horse candidate when he announced his run in 2007). Obama's campaign message, hope and change, was built upon a foundation of electoral mistrust of establishment insiders. That disdain for establishment politics has been a defining characteristic of 21st century America, so far. It transcends parties.

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So first faithless voter is voting for Sanders in Maine [View all] La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 OP

FYYFF musette_sf Dec 2016 #1

Are we not suggesting that electors vote their conscience? Apparently his conscience kelly1mm Dec 2016 #5

no, we are saying dont give a madman keys to the white house La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #7

Exactly. This was the bullshit logic some self-identified progressives used not to vote for Hillary still_one Dec 2016 #56

Thank you, it is disheartening that you have to explain this to anyone Eliot Rosewater Dec 2016 #92

People should vote their consciences as long as we agree with what their consciences tell them. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #21

if the issue is to stop trump, voting for anyone but HRC does not achieve the goal La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #34

Oh, I agree 100% that it was a dumb move. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #37

FWIW i have never said anyone should vote their conscience. they should vote for most good least La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #40

I agree. I've always considered conscience-based voting The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #45

yeah, i think people think too often of their individuality as being more important than the common La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #47

I personally, would not have switched my vote. But i noticed something interesting. As mentioned, dionysus Dec 2016 #143

In all the news I've read gklagan Dec 2016 #118

It is pretty funny. So much whiplash. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #61

His "conscience" tells him allow Trump to add one more vote to his small "majority"? George II Dec 2016 #108

Yeah pretty much. That is the risk you take when promoting unbinding electors. nt kelly1mm Dec 2016 #112

You seem to have completely missed the point. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #129

If that was the point then it seems to have failed spectacularly since the news is of Democratic kelly1mm Dec 2016 #132

Hm. Claims to be a Democratic Elector and casts his vote for an Independent. Yeah. BlueCaliDem Dec 2016 #2

Good for him! Joe941 Dec 2016 #3

LOL. he will lose the primary again. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #4

Just curious - which party? citood Dec 2016 #48

Which party would you prefer he run under? Joe941 Dec 2016 #50

A third party, as an independent citood Dec 2016 #72

Splitting the vote would guarantee they both lose. Joe941 Dec 2016 #79

All the more reason for Bernie to stay a permanent citood Dec 2016 #89

Third party, so we know exactly where he stands. He already got a shot at using Dem infrastructure Hekate Dec 2016 #114

Bernie lost the primaries on solid numbers. Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump in the GE. Hekate Dec 2016 #113

Bernie's ME Caucus Director had something to say about it. seaglass Dec 2016 #6

good. glad there are still some adults in the room. nt La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #8

Good. Thanks for posting. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #54

How old MFM008 Dec 2016 #9

hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #12

nor... berksdem Dec 2016 #29

i said none of the THREE you mentioned. which includes HRC. i have nothing to get over La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #31

Quit being so disrespectful TO LP obamanut2012 Dec 2016 #122

I guess chivalry is not dead.... berksdem Dec 2016 #139

And yours reeks of an inability to read accurately La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #144

I strongly suspect that Sanders will run again. StevieM Dec 2016 #30

i think Democratic primary voters will La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #33

I think O'Malley had a lot of potential, under different circumstances, in 2016. StevieM Dec 2016 #36

whomever it will be, it won't be Bernie at 80 years old. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #39

I like those names crazycatlady Dec 2016 #65

honestly, if we have learnt one thing from this election, is that we need people without long track La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #67

Obama was our shining star to come out of 04 crazycatlady Dec 2016 #69

i think everything should be taken in context. in 2004 we were 4 years into a bush presidency La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #73

Excellent metaphor, Lioness Hekate Dec 2016 #116

I think the coming years will provide many opportunities for strong leadership in opposition bettyellen Dec 2016 #78

We can always remain optimistic True Dough Dec 2016 #88

A good group. I'd add A. Villaraigosa brush Dec 2016 #151

I don't think he'll get another shot at using Dem infrastructure and the Dem brand, tho Hekate Dec 2016 #121

Oh the dnc will accommodate him, but the primary voters won't La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #145

You really think they'd give him a second bite at that apple? Hekate Dec 2016 #147

The dnc is scared of its own shadow, so yes they will La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #150

Ageism! Joe941 Dec 2016 #20

I keep thinking this too bravenak Dec 2016 #125

Experience! IronLionZion Dec 2016 #146

How about electing thirteen year olds....? New blood. Fresh ideas. Idealistic. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #148

This kind of thinking and action is why we lose OKNancy Dec 2016 #10

Oh fuck him. nt Maven Dec 2016 #11

+1 La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #14

Everybody here has been saying that electors can choose. Well, he chose. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #42

Yes and his choice shows him to be a self-important little brat Maven Dec 2016 #95

Welcome to democratic politics where people will do things you disagree with every single day. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #105

They can do things I (and many others in the party) disagree with Maven Dec 2016 #109

Pretty much Hekate Dec 2016 #111

Anything to give Trump a larger margin. Right? NCTraveler Dec 2016 #130

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?comview_post&forum1251&pid2661366 hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #133

Exactly. Sanders fan club has always been his worst enemy. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #134

Plus 2 Hekate Dec 2016 #110

Shaking head.... The_Voice_of_Reason Dec 2016 #13

Their sense of entitlement knows no bounds. nt Maven Dec 2016 #15

Don't worry about it. There's no way 37 EC voters will flip. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #28

Mr. Bright is Not-So Zambero Dec 2016 #16

Looks like Bernie secured a super delegate... Joe941 Dec 2016 #17

you know the primary ended a while ago, right? where hillary won both super delegates and elected La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #18

Talk about missing the point. Bobbie Jo Dec 2016 #19

And people like him wonder why longtime Democrats fight them tooth and nail... SaschaHM Dec 2016 #22

In the rare event that some of the electors change their vote from Trump to Hillary mtnsnake Dec 2016 #23

this is one of several reasons we lost the election DrDan Dec 2016 #24

Yup La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #25

Bernie lost! Hillary deserves her votes. hrmjustin Dec 2016 #26

Yep. HRC gets faithless electors, but tRump won't. WTF! ffr Dec 2016 #32

Thereby expressing one of the reasons Hillary lost Nonhlanhla Dec 2016 #27

+1 (nt) LongtimeAZDem Dec 2016 #55

good mike_c Dec 2016 #35

Totally preposterous oberliner Dec 2016 #38

you remember-- he's the Democratic candidate who was filling stadiums... mike_c Dec 2016 #44

Trump filled stadiums oberliner Dec 2016 #51

But he didn't get the VOTES. Hillary beat him by four million votes lunamagica Dec 2016 #59

Right and HRC supporters like myself who switched from Bernie to support her.. JHan Dec 2016 #60

$5000 per plate would be a bargain compared to some of her fundraisers. aidbo Dec 2016 #120

single most ridic thing i have read today. she won cos she got 4 million more votes than sanders La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #41

OK, you're right, she won.... mike_c Dec 2016 #49

a man who couldn't even win the primary, was not about to win the election. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #52

Sanders would have CRUSHED Trump.... mike_c Dec 2016 #58

what amuses me is the glee in your post which tells me several things: JHan Dec 2016 #75

amazing post. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #86

glee? mike_c Dec 2016 #93

"Polls show?" JHan Dec 2016 #96

that's right-- it's all the left's fault.... mike_c Dec 2016 #99

It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with loving HILLARY JHan Dec 2016 #102

Your bias is almost as obvious as your lack of evidence supporting your prophecies. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #149

Sanders loses primary: _HE_ lost! Clinton loses general: _THEY_ cheated! hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #62

Why are you fabricating quotes the poster did not say? emulatorloo Dec 2016 #64

Not quotes, hence no quote marks. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #71

However, the post you were responding to did not make that "general argument" emulatorloo Dec 2016 #141

both can be true. Russians and Comey did not interfere with these primaries La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #66

Nope. Either all candidates are in charge of their fates, or they are not. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #76

that is a non-sensical comment. Russia could have interfered in the primaries, but did not La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #80

No. Repeating it again won't change it either. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #94

The DNC did not interfere, which is why it is not the same thing at all La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #101

Enough with the false Assange/Putin "DNC collusion" meme. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #63

+1 La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #68

"false Assange/Putin 'DNC collusion' meme...." mike_c Dec 2016 #70

i think she quit because the left bought into assange's conspiracies La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #74

What's ridiculous is that you fell for Putin's propaganda campaign. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #140

What utter unsupported bullshit mythology Dec 2016 #103

"...because more voters wanted Clinton." mike_c Dec 2016 #107

This is a steaming pile of barnyard byproduct. 3 million votes over Trump's total went to HRC. Hekate Dec 2016 #117

by the end of the day today Trump will officially be president elect.... mike_c Dec 2016 #127

The notion that those 3 million votes have no meaning is the fantasy kcr Dec 2016 #142

Preach it! n/t Devil Child Dec 2016 #126

Sanders was treated with kid gloves. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #137

The smell of irony in the morning ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #43

I'm so fucking sick of special snowflakes this year. Starry Messenger Dec 2016 #46

amen. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #53

Every faithless elector helps undermine the EC, which is good. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #57

So let me get this shit straight Jake Stern Dec 2016 #77

let me get this straight, i have only advocated for stopping Trump La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #81

Good. I'm glad someone remembered Bernie. Vinca Dec 2016 #82

interesting how the BLUEST states voted overwhelmingly for her, MA, CA, and NY La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #84

I'm not rehashing the primaries. In fact, I think it's time to shut this forum down. Vinca Dec 2016 #85

sure, but since you mentioned where you lived, i wanted to mention how blue states went La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #87

Many other blue states went for Bernie, but please . . . let's not torture ourselves anymore. Vinca Dec 2016 #90

I liked and supported Bernie in the primary KPN Dec 2016 #83

Agree. Not the time or place for a protest vote. This is the GE, not the primary. Wrong-headed! riversedge Dec 2016 #100

One from MN who was dismissed and replaced and another from HI. Bernie is dead to me. n/t seaglass Dec 2016 #91

+1 BainsBane Dec 2016 #97

Fuck you, asshole Not Very Bright duffyduff Dec 2016 #98

Oops nevermind. His vote was deemed improper and he switched to Hillary. Bernie still seaglass Dec 2016 #104

Since it doesn't matter, he can do it. HassleCat Dec 2016 #106

Washington went off the rails HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #115

The Faithless Elector from Maine was Listening to HRC aikoaiko Dec 2016 #119

And more... this is a trainwreck... LP2K12 Dec 2016 #123

I want to never let an indy in our primary again bravenak Dec 2016 #124

Bernie loses in a landslide again. Nt NCTraveler Dec 2016 #128

So the elector ignores the votes in November by the voters of Maine Fresh_Start Dec 2016 #131

lulz Rex Dec 2016 #135

But there's an UPdate and he ended up Changing it to Clinton.. Cha Dec 2016 #136

What really irks me is the blockhead getting the spotlight to spew oasis Dec 2016 #152

I know, oasis.. Check this out.. it made me feel a little better.. Cha Dec 2016 #153

Condemning and bringing shame upon his sorry ass. I like it. nt oasis Dec 2016 #154

By a fellow BS supporter. Cha Dec 2016 #155

The election in a nutshell mcar Dec 2016 #138