2016 Postmortem

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)

11. Do you really think that the GOP...

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 06:25 PM

Dec 2016

and the MSM would have had any trouble painting a 70+ year old man whose only steady career has been running for office or being in office as an insider when compared to Trump? You don't spend over 2 decades in Washington and get to be an outsider.

And that's after getting over the hurdle that was winning the primary, which despite having crowds, he was unable to do. I mean, hell if Clinton couldn't get to Obama levels with AA voters, the guy who lost them state by state in the primary wouldn't have as well.

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Bernie filled stadiums. Much as I like Hillary, she just wasn't an exciting candidate. [View all] RBInMaine Dec 2016 OP

Some serious BS with this line. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #1

And many more did not show up or went third party or to Trump. Those are just the facts. RBInMaine Dec 2016 #2

And many more voted for Clinton than Trump. Just the fact. George II Dec 2016 #10

Why? Because a Hillary nomination led to a Trump Presidency. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #54

This. nt redqueen Dec 2016 #77

THIS. is the bottom line. RazBerryBeret Dec 2016 #78

Sanders and his supporters carrying water for the Republicans led to a Trump Presidency LongtimeAZDem Dec 2016 #79

nonsense....you imagine Hillary as a fragile victim.... virtualobserver Dec 2016 #80

Not at all; Sanders supporters repeated Republican attacks as gospel, LongtimeAZDem Dec 2016 #82

I supported Sanders, and voted for Hillary in the GE. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #83

That's bullshit. The bernie or bust crew wasn't large enough to to that. The vast dionysus Dec 2016 #106

They Went 3rd Party or Not At All & We Lost otohara Dec 2016 #173

Can you prove any of that with data, and not some anecdote from JPR types? If you can actually prove dionysus Dec 2016 #176

Here otohara Dec 2016 #177

Hillary was fighting an anti-establishment head wind. Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #155

And clearly Bernie did not have a competent campaign as he couldn't even win the primary. n/t seaglass Dec 2016 #89

Bernie was a complete unknown, yet he did well...especially considering DWS's debate freeze out..... virtualobserver Dec 2016 #98

Why was he unknown if he was in Congress for 30 years and on talk radio for 10? seaglass Dec 2016 #99

He is well known now, and highly regarded, nationwide..... virtualobserver Dec 2016 #139

His 10 Years On Radio Was Effective In Demonizing Democrats otohara Dec 2016 #174

Unknown after 30 years in the Senate? sheshe2 Dec 2016 #129

He is not unknown any more....and is highly regarded...which says a lot more. virtualobserver Dec 2016 #140

Yes he is. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #143

So would a Bernie nomination jmowreader Dec 2016 #141

we know that Hillary lost.... virtualobserver Dec 2016 #161

Why? Kentonio Dec 2016 #168

4.3 million more votes in California, which we will see more of in the future, it wasn't nationally. braddy Dec 2016 #75

Re: 4.3 million more votes in California SFnomad Dec 2016 #154

If they were that fucking stupid Island Blue Dec 2016 #36

This was about issues DK504 Dec 2016 #132

So You Must Attend A Rally otohara Dec 2016 #172

They were *also* a LOT of alt-righters there that were NEVER voting for him in the general. LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #146

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #3

And some of her supporters dismissed the very idea of building enthusiasm. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #4

When has "enthusiasm" or lack thereof, ever been an issue in a Presidential election? George II Dec 2016 #13

Not an issue...a factor. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #14

I don't think "charisma" had much to do with some, if not all, of those elections. George II Dec 2016 #18

In 1976, the Democrats were going to take the White House no matter what. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #20

That is definitely not true oberliner Dec 2016 #26

Carter was thirty points ahead at one point in the summer. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #45

It was tied in October oberliner Dec 2016 #48

It was very close - Ford had bad gaffe too (saying Poland wasn't under Soviet influence) MrPurple Dec 2016 #102

I don't recall Nixon being known as the "moderate/liberal" in 1968, in fact he wasn't. braddy Dec 2016 #74

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Republican George II Dec 2016 #85

Nixon was not seen as the moderate/liberal candidate in 1968, and he was running against Rockefeller braddy Dec 2016 #86

What one is "seen as" and what one actually "was" are two totally different things. George II Dec 2016 #92

Nixon was not a liberal in 1968, and Rockefeller was running against him in 1968. braddy Dec 2016 #93

Compared to 1968 field, Nixon wasn't liberal. Compared to today's Rethugs, he is. MrPurple Dec 2016 #103

Very good post Ken lastone Dec 2016 #64

There's a problem with your theory mythology Dec 2016 #5

Didn't Gallup predict a Hillary win in the GE? Exilednight Dec 2016 #7

And didn't she win? yallerdawg Dec 2016 #27

Where will she be on inauguration day? Exilednight Dec 2016 #40

Gallup didnt poll the presidential race this cycle MadBadger Dec 2016 #104

Who said anything about polling? Exilednight Dec 2016 #111

No no no! We need more of the same! It's been working out so well! aidbo Dec 2016 #6

she still got more people to actually vote for her JI7 Dec 2016 #8

Sure. But considering who she was running against, it should have dionysus Dec 2016 #107

look at what congress is made up of JI7 Dec 2016 #110

Good points. Sadly, that means there's more racism and misogny out there dionysus Dec 2016 #112

It was by 3 mil votes, sheshe2 Dec 2016 #130

We both no, to gore's lament, that's not what we're talking about. dionysus Dec 2016 #138

She ran against trump, who had already defeated 16 other contenders, agains the KGB, against Comey, lunamagica Dec 2016 #160

Let's not grant trump any credit where credit is not due. And to suggest the voters were dionysus Dec 2016 #167

Yes, but by spending more time campaigning in Cali than Wisconsin, we got the Fuhrer-Elect. Not a good strategy going for the win in the popular vote. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #122

Why didn't that translate into votes? George II Dec 2016 #9

It translated into far more votes than anyone expected. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #16

55+% is much more. And that "superdelegate" excuse is just that, an excuse. How many of the..... George II Dec 2016 #19

Almost all of them. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #21

You're entitled to your opinion. But I doubt you can bolster that opinion with fact. George II Dec 2016 #22

It's a fact that Bernie did far better than anyone expected. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #23

I referring to your fact that "almost all" of the 30 million people who participated.... George II Dec 2016 #24

Yet Hillary only won what was it, 4 out of all of those yellow states in the general? Autumn Dec 2016 #63

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #91

the write in is still pretty much wanting or ok with Trump as president JI7 Dec 2016 #100

Yes, let's shrink the party... perhaps we can teot out another classic like dionysus Dec 2016 #108

Your map illustrates the southern primary strategy. HassleCat Dec 2016 #117

It shows the fact that Sanders may not be as progressive as some would like to think. George II Dec 2016 #118

Or perhaps more progressive. HassleCat Dec 2016 #119

The fundamental problem is that by and large forjusticethunders Dec 2016 #158

Exactly, George.. why didn't the "big stadiums" translate Cha Dec 2016 #33

80,000 who gave Trump the E.C can barely fill a stadium themselves.. JHan Dec 2016 #58

You're missing the point. The point is, if she excited people the way bernie did, or got dionysus Dec 2016 #109

Do you really think that the GOP... SaschaHM Dec 2016 #11

neither of them are gonna run again in 4 years, so I suggest looking forward. Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #12

I like Gavin Newsom. Great pic. ms liberty Dec 2016 #162

Exactly. Because that's what leaders do. They lead. Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #163

Comey, voter suppression And Russia... Empirical factors everything else is guessing uponit7771 Dec 2016 #15

Like the DU gunner in NC who claims that's what the voters were grumbling about Nov 8..eom Kolesar Dec 2016 #56

Bernie Sanders did absolutely nothing for me, my family, and friends...nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #17

Not in my town he didn't, but the press pretended he did. ucrdem Dec 2016 #25

That is magnanimous of you RBinMaine.. Thanks. CentralMass Dec 2016 #28

Small town America and the rural areas won't vote for us we need to get the Obama coalition and the coolbreeze77 Dec 2016 #29

Ugh... Staaaaaaaaahp! Just Staaaaahp! Squinch Dec 2016 #30

Exciting is horribly overrated. stopbush Dec 2016 #31

Please stop this already. n/t rzemanfl Dec 2016 #32

+1,000,000 AgadorSparticus Dec 2016 #37

Yes. tecelote Dec 2016 #51

Bernie "filled stadiums" with white people. That's not the Democratic party, and for that I'm..... Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #34

Brava! sheshe2 Dec 2016 #133

Yep. His brand of economic populism became a turnoff. kcr Dec 2016 #148

Hillary's campaign was designed for her to listen to voters. Bernie's campaign oasis Dec 2016 #35

Bingo! EffieBlack Dec 2016 #60

So Hillary never made promises... TCJ70 Dec 2016 #94

It was Bernie's "pie-in-the-sky"pitch that filled the stadiums. oasis Dec 2016 #95

Pie-in-the-sky...kinda like "Hope and Change". So vague, right? N/t TCJ70 Dec 2016 #97

"Vague"? Not to those who recognize bullshit when they hear it. oasis Dec 2016 #101

HRC didn't rent stadiums, she did smaller venues and events that involved meeting with and talking synergie Dec 2016 #38

Spot on perfect analysis! EffieBlack Dec 2016 #61

BS ... it cost a LOT of money PassingFair Dec 2016 #88

Bingo. TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2016 #156

Lol Dem2 Dec 2016 #39

A new hobby might be in order. grossproffit Dec 2016 #41

Oh bullshit. ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #42

I like this. Succinct and right on the money! justhanginon Dec 2016 #53

Bernie filled stadiums. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #43

And to put a finer point on it, voters in Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio count even more. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #114

To put an even finer point on it ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #136

Useless post/thread. For Christ's sake, please stop this. n/t VOX Dec 2016 #44

Hillary filled voting booths. Much as I liked BS, he lost the primary by millions. Hekate Dec 2016 #46

Excitement isn't everything. Orsino Dec 2016 #47

The Beatles filled stadiums, too DFW Dec 2016 #49

Well, when you are bigger than God... Kolesar Dec 2016 #57

Lennon wrote better songs DFW Dec 2016 #70

Paul McCartney had considerable activism on animal rights and climate protection Kolesar Dec 2016 #145

It's not that Hillary wasn't an exciting candidate, it's that Bernie was speaking to people's hearts Yo_Mama Dec 2016 #50

... and speaking to people's hearts is what was exciting. Just look at the faces of people at his JudyM Dec 2016 #68

I don't see the images you posted. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #134

Bernie filled the stadiums with people who didn't vote. Hillary filled the voting booths. n/t Lil Missy Dec 2016 #52

Sanders was devoid of substance: free college, should have locked up the bankers, ... Kolesar Dec 2016 #55

Difficult to be exciting when you are constantly fighting off.... democratisphere Dec 2016 #59

Bernie mostly "filled stadiums" on college campuses ...he was the cool grandpa Dream Girl Dec 2016 #62

Much as I liked Bernie Sanders at first Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #65

Yeah, but filled stadiums didn't translate into more votes for him. tammywammy Dec 2016 #66

Like with Gore I just can't answer treestar Dec 2016 #67

Spoken like an intellectual. Pity we don't have a country full of them. JudyM Dec 2016 #69

Seriously- this cult of personality shit is killing us. Enough. bettyellen Dec 2016 #72

Enjoy the Trump presidency Emilybemily Dec 2016 #71

+1 (nt) LongtimeAZDem Dec 2016 #84

Inaccurate analysis in an attempt to stoke division. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #73

If we are indeed in an era of "outsider politics", why are 98% of incumbents re-elected? guillaumeb Dec 2016 #76

absolutely spot on.... mike_c Dec 2016 #81

She was smart, she worked hard, she was honest and she was flexible. ucrdem Dec 2016 #87

Ouch! sheshe2 Dec 2016 #135

Mahalo, ucr! Cha Dec 2016 #166

Bernie Lost. Move on with your life. Hillary won the Primary and the General in popular vote. Lil Missy Dec 2016 #90

Are we supposed to learn from our mistakes, or circle the wagons and pretend they don't exist? dionysus Dec 2016 #121

Agreed. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #128

She won. It was stolen. End of story. Lil Missy Dec 2016 #142

Well, tell yourself whatever makes you feel good. As far as bernie, he didn't dionysus Dec 2016 #144

and yours amount to "concern trolling". Lil Missy Dec 2016 #147

Yes, i am concerned your wing of the party might cause consecutive losses, the way shit is going! dionysus Dec 2016 #149

President Obama said at his recent press conference that there is no evidence that the actual vote totodeinhere Dec 2016 #164

didn't like Hillary but still voted for her formerGreenParty Dec 2016 #96

She wasn't that bad.. she did generate a lot of excitement.. but among the hardcore base. But she dionysus Dec 2016 #105

I hope they're excited about the massive shit sandwich Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #113

Sometimes i believe that as a country, we collectively deserve what we ask for... dionysus Dec 2016 #120

This message was self-deleted by its author andym Dec 2016 #115

Enthusiasm helps, but look at the two George Bush's for examples of candidates who won andym Dec 2016 #116

So your opinion is large crowds votes..... Historic NY Dec 2016 #123

thank you DonCoquixote Dec 2016 #124

Without rehashing the primary crazycatlady Dec 2016 #125

Bernie filled stadiums, Hillary got more votes. Trump filled stadiums, Hillary got more votes. brooklynite Dec 2016 #126

Trump won. Maybe we should have gone with the guy who filled stadiums...n/t TCJ70 Dec 2016 #150

Do you want imagine Trump had no oppo to use against Sanders? brooklynite Dec 2016 #151

Did I say that? n/t TCJ70 Dec 2016 #153

When one party rigs an election, it's really not a win. underthematrix Dec 2016 #127

Utter GARBAGE. Hillary drew virtually the same number of votes as Obama 2012 pnwmom Dec 2016 #131

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #137

The DNC had 4 of it's top members resign including the chair person. What was that about? think Dec 2016 #152

Wow! LiberalFighter Dec 2016 #157

If he was so exciting, why didn't he excite people to vote? lunamagica Dec 2016 #159

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #165

Let's also not forget the huge numbers of new supporters Kentonio Dec 2016 #169

Seems excitement won out over actual ability & competence. baldguy Dec 2016 #170

As An Older Voter - Bullshit otohara Dec 2016 #171

Lots of truth here. realmirage Dec 2016 #175