2016 Postmortem

Ghost OF Trotsky

(61 posts)

149. Also, to give the devil his due

Thu Dec 8, 2016, 10:20 PM

Dec 2016

I have seen analyses that the appearance of chaos and tanking in his campaign were either crafted, or at least encouraged, including his acting like he had given up for a brief time. In actuality his son in law ran a brilliant operation using not just state of the art but genuinely innovative research methods to target dollars and ads exactly where the electoral votes could be snagged.

If you can stomach the link, a good analysis from a strictly operational viewpoint is here:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenbertoni/2016/11/22/exclusive-interview-how-jared-kushner-won-trump-the-white-house/#69c51e602f50 Say what one will about the men or the political platform, Trump achieved exactly one of the things Sun-Tzu encouraged (if one could not win without fighting at al)- to be so woefully underestimated that your enemy stops worrying about you....

as always, appreciate your posts and thought provoking writing.

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So tell me again where we went "wrong". [View all] NanceGreggs Dec 2016 OP

putting republicans in high level govt positions so they would finally love us? nt msongs Dec 2016 #1

What? mcar Dec 2016 #13

Obama knew Comey was a Republican when he nominated him for FBI. BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #136

I'm 74 and if I live to be a hundred I will always think this election reeks of rotten eggs. shraby Dec 2016 #2

I agree shraby. The whole result was so unbelievable boston bean Dec 2016 #10

I agree with that, too. murielm99 Dec 2016 #55

The Democratic leadership in Washington could do something about these election INdemo Dec 2016 #19

When Fox News has to convince Karl Rove Obama won, you know he thought the fix was in yurbud Dec 2016 #127

I agree with this. Justice Dec 2016 #152

Where Is the DNC? Mickey1Seven Dec 2016 #202

I will never believe this was a legitimate election. Bettie Dec 2016 #114

There was that forwardness attitude of confidence with Trump INdemo Dec 2016 #153

k and r, with deepest thanks. niyad Dec 2016 #3

When we quit hand counting paper ballots at every precinct. Coyotl Dec 2016 #4

+1, especially after all the voter suppression measures they GOP has taken they've lost the benefit uponit7771 Dec 2016 #8

the central failing of our party. mopinko Dec 2016 #21

Your points are valid, TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #5

He was even more disliked... The M$M spent 3 times discussing her emails than policy uponit7771 Dec 2016 #12

What are we meant to learn? NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #20

We did it in 2008. Indydem Dec 2016 #24

If you think Obama won ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #27

Really? Indydem Dec 2016 #31

Those who "opted out" of the election ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #36

+1000 NastyRiffraff Dec 2016 #113

You are right. The opt-outs will get an ass-beating. Lucky Luciano Dec 2016 #132

So you must agree then that "opted outs"... Beartracks Dec 2016 #135

92% of African Americans voted for Hillary. What other group even came close to that? brush Dec 2016 #56

agreed. JHan Dec 2016 #59

Percentage is irrelevant. Indydem Dec 2016 #66

Duh! And keep telling your self despite facts pointed out to you about voter suppression . . . brush Dec 2016 #78

Yes, its DU... the place were all post mortem conversations start by leaving out Comey, Voter ... uponit7771 Dec 2016 #86

The data from those exit polls is very outdated uponit7771 Dec 2016 #85

Care to share more recent data? Indydem Dec 2016 #123

Sad but true facts indydem, The age group of 18-25 were a BIG reason also.......... Old Vet Dec 2016 #134

The exit polls got a lot wrong, especially the Latino vote. StevieM Dec 2016 #198

Not much higher, in 2012 Obama got 93% IIRC... She did good with blacks in 2016 uponit7771 Dec 2016 #84

But overall, less of them actually voted than in 2008 and 2012. Exilednight Dec 2016 #179

Oh please. 92% of any population segment's vote is huge. No other group comes close brush Dec 2016 #189

Please don't assume what I am thinking. Exilednight Dec 2016 #193

Yet you mentioned AAs and not the huge number of whites who voted for Trump brush Dec 2016 #194

You're the one who mentioned AAs, I just filled in key facts that you left out. Exilednight Dec 2016 #208

What does this quote of yours mean then? brush Dec 2016 #210

that quote is a fact, a key fact to be exact. One you left out. Exilednight Dec 2016 #211

Are you confused? You said you didn't mention AAs. brush Dec 2016 #212

No, I am not confused. YOU mentioned AAs, and I provided key facts that you left out. Exilednight Dec 2016 #213

Whatever you say, dude. brush Dec 2016 #215

Is my statement about less African-Americans voted this year compared to 2008 and 2012 untrue? Exilednight Dec 2016 #216

The beat predictor of who is going to win the presidential race is Exilednight Dec 2016 #209

That argument has never made any sense. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #28

Then where did those almost 3 million other votes come from? Hekate Dec 2016 #38

Hillary knew how the Electoral College worked dragonfly301 Dec 2016 #117

She is also loved ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #96

I tried that in another thread mcar Dec 2016 #101

Thank you for reinforcing my point. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #112

she was so disliked because liberals ignore 25 years of talk radio certainot Dec 2016 #115

Learn what? Not to nominate a strong, experienced, brilliant woman pnwmom Dec 2016 #214

Immigration and terrorism. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #6

+1, Comey, Voter suppression, Russia... any discussion without acknowledging these factors is usless uponit7771 Dec 2016 #7

+1 and hinky voting machines and "undervoting" flamingdem Dec 2016 #11

and the undervote coming from their illegal purging, the DNC wants to win they should fix this shit uponit7771 Dec 2016 #87

K&R brer cat Dec 2016 #9

Clinton was too much of a female for the He Man Woman Haters Club. baldguy Dec 2016 #14

This!!! DemonGoddess Dec 2016 #168

And the media, the right and some on the left mcar Dec 2016 #15

We let stupid people vote milestogo Dec 2016 #16

But Hillary WON the election by over 2.5 MILLION VOTES.... People forget that fact groundloop Dec 2016 #17

By almost 2.7 million votes, a 2% lead over Trump. This compares pnwmom Dec 2016 #23

It. Doesn't. Matter. Indydem Dec 2016 #25

So we should only concern ourselves ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #80

How about.... Indydem Dec 2016 #122

Until the EC is eliminated by Constitutional Amendmt, we should play to win by the EC rules, definitely. That was the strategy Bernie advocated for winning, which, unfortunately, never got implemented InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #151

You're right. Kentonio Dec 2016 #155

It has nothing to do with ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #169

That's exactly what the rules of the game are. Kentonio Dec 2016 #172

All states matter in the EC - some not very much. CA a great deal. Yo_Mama Dec 2016 #166

Shall we pander to their bigotry? ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #97

Is that all you have? Indydem Dec 2016 #121

Gun control...eom Kang Colby Dec 2016 #18

Um, no. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #26

Um, yes. Kang Colby Dec 2016 #146

When Trump said that wages are too high, I was expecting TV ads Eric J in MN Dec 2016 #22

Despite the crassness... Indydem Dec 2016 #29

Which was why he did it. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #30

So we "lost" due to TV ads? NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #32

Well, it says that the voting populace is a tad gullible, but we knew that. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #35

"malleable" is putting it nicely. some people DesertFlower Dec 2016 #50

Famous for being famous as the saying goes. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #53

Yes. Trump TV ads had more economics. Eric J in MN Dec 2016 #105

Nance, you're a smart cookie, you know how shallow and superficial our electorate has become. dionysus Dec 2016 #218

I did not see a single ad showing that Trump called Rosie O'Donnell a "fat pig".... George II Dec 2016 #39

Where are you? In Florida they played that ad all the time. whopis01 Dec 2016 #54

I was thinking of the 'Mirrors' ad. I got the quote used in the ad wrong. Eric J in MN Dec 2016 #100

Righteous rant NG - righteous NoMoreRepugs Dec 2016 #33

We overestimated people Nwgirl503 Dec 2016 #34

I agree, so how do we go about not allowing all that to happen again? Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #93

I honestly have no answer Nwgirl503 Dec 2016 #140

Where did we go wrong? We allowed amateurs and hackers to oversee our election. George II Dec 2016 #37

Amen again, Preacher Nance. Amen. Hekate Dec 2016 #40

Trump voters were so driven by racism .. ananda Dec 2016 #41

Another long, boring recitation of points that ignore the reality people didn't like her KittyWampus Dec 2016 #42

The "reality" is that ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #45

More than half of the voters would disagree with you. leftofcool Dec 2016 #52

who knows what the idiots on JPR are saying. I spent the primary getting posts hidden KittyWampus Dec 2016 #60

Mea culpa.... TwilightZone Dec 2016 #64

You read it wrong. I DEFENDED CLINTON. Because she was the nominee. KittyWampus Dec 2016 #109

I did, yes. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #111

Most Americans did... I don't know why this is left out of the "people didn't like her" meme?! uponit7771 Dec 2016 #88

I spent the primary defending her and I didn't like her and didn't want her. KittyWampus Dec 2016 #110

The party went wrong by making itself seem too disconnected from those things hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #43

The MAJORITY of voters ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #47

But the party got decimated. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #58

You appear to equate voting for her Kentonio Dec 2016 #156

A proper analysis of "why we lost" should include: JHan Dec 2016 #67

Blaming external problems is just asserting weakness. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #89

Polite and gentle? JHan Dec 2016 #90

Here you go, I fixed it for you hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #91

You keep focusing on Clinton when.. JHan Dec 2016 #92

Crying about Bernie is a red herring hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #144

"Debunked repeatedly"?? JHan Dec 2016 #145

+1000! DemonGoddess Dec 2016 #170

What is wrong is The Wizard Dec 2016 #44

In retrospect, I wish George Takei had been our candidate - he'd have won the Twitter campaign Dems to Win Dec 2016 #46

Tell me again how the candidate that promoted that message was the wrong candidate. Martin Eden Dec 2016 #48

And exactly where ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #61

The entire thrust of your OP is there was nothing wrong with our candidate or message Martin Eden Dec 2016 #108

What narrative has less merit than the one you are positing? Flatpicker Dec 2016 #49

I am well aware that we lost ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #65

She clearly had the wrong message to win the EC Kentonio Dec 2016 #157

Lets talk on GOP terms then; world wide wally Dec 2016 #51

3.7 times Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #104

They were successful in their campaign of character assassination... kentuck Dec 2016 #57

Speaks more Flatpicker Dec 2016 #62

They turned John Kerry, a war hero, into a coward. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #69

Back before Flatpicker Dec 2016 #70

Actually, they ran exactly that kind of campaign against Obama. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #76

Absolutely right ! kentuck Dec 2016 #72

Except they wouldn't have ripped him to shreds Kentonio Dec 2016 #158

I could not agree more... samplegirl Dec 2016 #138

There where multiple reasons. lancelyons Dec 2016 #63

are you fucking serious??? DemonGoddess Dec 2016 #171

I understand that lancelyons Dec 2016 #217

The GOP is much better at ratfucking. It's all they have, really, but they are masters at it. deurbano Dec 2016 #68

for me she was ideal because: JHan Dec 2016 #71

Where did we go wrong? quakerboy Dec 2016 #73

Still trolling Bernie supporters? Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #74

And a kick from your daughter brer cat Dec 2016 #75

I think this is one of the steps in grieving. Post mortems are good cleansing exercises. Zen Democrat Dec 2016 #77

I don't believe we had the wrong candidate or the wrong message but... prairierose Dec 2016 #79

By running. And that is not a knock against Clinton or her capacity to be Commander-in-Chief. In JCanete Dec 2016 #81

Well, you'll never catch me ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #82

I never for an instant thought she could win. Dems to Win Dec 2016 #99

Hillary's supporters need to examine... TeeYiYi Dec 2016 #83

that goes both ways ... JHan Dec 2016 #102

Hillary didn't undermine Obama radical noodle Dec 2016 #107

A lack of trust in HRC fulfilling the message was a factor. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #94

Lots of white dudes didn't trust her, because she isn't a dude. nt LexVegas Dec 2016 #95

Great post Nance Gothmog Dec 2016 #98

Glad you asked Perseus Dec 2016 #103

In all fairness, she should have known... robbedvoter Dec 2016 #106

woohoo! Am rec'd # 70!! Thank you Nance. Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #116

We failed to realize the power of racist/misogynist people in large groups Bettie Dec 2016 #118

To actually answer the question gator108 Dec 2016 #119

Ill tell you rtracey Dec 2016 #120

She was not trusted or liked by too many people. PassingFair Dec 2016 #124

She was trusted and liked enough to surpass Obama's 2012 total. PeaceNikki Dec 2016 #128

Only because she was running against an actual monster. PassingFair Dec 2016 #131

So we let the RW and their media define our nominees without a fight? mcar Dec 2016 #141

Or we pick a nominee with broader appeal. PassingFair Dec 2016 #147

She was the wrong candidate shawn703 Dec 2016 #125

The attacks on Hillary Clinton were baseless Gothmog Dec 2016 #126

Average conservative voters didn't like her. ihaveaquestion Dec 2016 #129

They believed lies mcar Dec 2016 #142

Preaching to the choir. (n/t) Iggo Dec 2016 #130

how about "Hillary's campaign blew it in the rust belt"? 0rganism Dec 2016 #133

This video is disgusting. He repeats the GOP lies and calls Hillary corrupt. StevieM Dec 2016 #192

on the one hand, i think you raise a valid criticism 0rganism Dec 2016 #195

Thank you for your thoughtful post. I am now sorry that I alerted on your previous post. StevieM Dec 2016 #196

likewise, thank you for yours 0rganism Dec 2016 #197

Keen insights BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2016 #137

Great person- perhaps the most qualified ever to run Ghost OF Trotsky Dec 2016 #139

It is fairly easy quaker bill Dec 2016 #143

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #148

Also, to give the devil his due Ghost OF Trotsky Dec 2016 #149

Here's another article I found fascinating about Trump's methods Dems to Win Dec 2016 #154

Exactly Ghost OF Trotsky Dec 2016 #160

Hillary Clinton was the wrong candidate for 2016. Had it been 2008 she would have won. jalan48 Dec 2016 #150

Not a single campaign stop in Wisconsin after the primaries... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #159

Uh, no. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #161

You're projecting.. Yurovsky Dec 2016 #163

Accessing the readily available information ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #164

K&R Jamaal510 Dec 2016 #162

While were busy partisaning, the the billionaires bought our democracy. Orsino Dec 2016 #165

K&R! DemonGoddess Dec 2016 #167

Where you went wrong is how you conveniently blamed our loss entirely on the electoral college mtnsnake Dec 2016 #173

No, actually I didn't. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #174

So you were just kidding in your next to last paragraph then mtnsnake Dec 2016 #175

That paragraph ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #177

By virtue of your own words mtnsnake Dec 2016 #180

Of course I am saying ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #181

Suggesting? mtnsnake Dec 2016 #182

We did enough things right ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #184

But DID we do enough things right? mtnsnake Dec 2016 #185

That's why I asked, mtnsake. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #186

I already told you what I think we need to do mtnsnake Dec 2016 #187

IOW, you have no answer ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #188

My answers are there. I've had enough of your string cheese rhetoric for 1 night mtnsnake Dec 2016 #190

Your answers amount to ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #191

All of what you wrote, is why the Russian hacking makes so much sense. dubyadiprecession Dec 2016 #176

2 things come to mind vi5 Dec 2016 #178

Normally post mortem is easier jzodda Dec 2016 #183

Your points are indeed valid, but there's an easy way to detect if we did something wrong derby378 Dec 2016 #199

If the popular vote determined the next president of the United States, I'd be on board with you. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #200

Can't help but wonder ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #204

I doubt it. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #207

It doesn't render the "wrong candidate" narrative invalid ... ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #201

Well, I'm sure that as far as ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #203

I supported her ... ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #205

K & R n/y GP6971 Dec 2016 #206