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Raster

(20,999 posts)
22. back on this merry-go-round, eh? Of course Clinton's loss in the GE was NOT all her fault...
Sun Dec 4, 2016, 09:22 AM
Dec 2016

I supported Sanders in the Primary and supported Clinton in the General. What I believe...

1. Hillary Hate. The number one contributing factor to Clinton's loss in the General was the HUGE reservoir of Hillary Hate that has been brewing, fomenting and accumulating for approximately 25 years, at least. It is almost impossible to over-state the sheer amount of malice in Red Amerika towards Hillary Clinton that has been seething and coalescing into it's own extremely profitable INDUSTRY for years. Hillary Hate has become almost a quasi-religion in Red Amerika, and a powerful one at that. Although most of the supposed issues justifying the Hillary Hate are bogus and blown completely out of portion, again, it is impossible to overstate the sheer magnitude of the hateful deep-felt and uber-negative emotions that Clinton induces. I have been absolutely amazed and appalled at persons that I thought were thoughtful, intelligent and logical people that could rapidly devolve into rabid, froth-at-the-mouth Hillary Haters at the drop of a comment or innuendo. Unless you see this personally, you really have no idea. And this is NOT just surface, rhetorical hatred. Oh no, this is visceral and down-right bone chilling. And you can't really say the Hillary Hate is primarily sexist and gender based. It is not. IMHO, this Hillary Hate is the over-reaching and overall underlying factor that colors every component of the Clinton effort to become the 45th POTUS. This is the "trump card" that allows all other Clinton negative factors to function at their most efficient.

2. US Internal Factors. In five words: James Comey and the FBI. There is no doubt in my mind that the momentum was with Clinton and the vast pool of middle-of-the-road, undecided voters were heavily leaning towards Clinton. And, strange as it sounds, I think the SECOND Comey missive actually did the most damage going into the election. Even though it should have been interpreted as a positive for Clinton, it only fed the negative. I believe these were deliberate actions by Comey to violate the Hatch Act and unduly influence the election. Add to that: a true right-wing conspiracy centered primarily within the NY office of the FBI that sought to use any method to inhibit Clinton, even violating FBI policy and the Hatch Act.

3. Internal Factors: Voter Suppression. The Republicans know they are fighting -AND LOSING- a long-term battle for the hearts and minds of the electorate. The Republicans are losing women, minorities and younger voters in spades. The only thing they can do to make sure their candidates win, is to work to limit those groups voting that would probably vote against their candidates, which they have down to LITERALLY A SCIENCE. Voter Suppression, thy name is Republican. This cannot be overstated. It is appalling that the same tried-and-true, illegal techniques to stop lawful and legal voters from casting their ballots, are still blatantly applied TO ANY ELECTION that threatens Republican hegemony. I suspect that tens-upon-tens of thousands of Clinton voters were stopped from voting this last election cycle, especially in the overly valid states of Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania and North Carolina.

4. External Factors: Russia and Wikileaks. There is no doubt with any of the US Intelligence Agencies that Russia sought to influence this US election through a variety of methods, primarily the use of cyber espionage and manipulation AND PROBABLY DID SO. From the identified and verified pro-tRump dis-information farms in Eastern Europe to the Kremlin's own private army of cyber rat-fuckers, it is doubtful the American public will ever know the true depth of Russian influence, as most of this may well be classified. Add to that, the *partnership* between Wikileaks and Russia, aimed solely at contaminating the Clinton campaign efforts. And further, add to that chilling evidence that members of the tRump inner circle may have actually colluded with Russia to further influence the election. T-R-E-A-S-O-N.

5. The Clinton Campaign itself. If the election results are to be taken a full-face value, we cannot overlook how the internal polling for the "Blue Wall" states was so wrong by significant percentage points as to swing the election towards tRump. And further, if the election results are to be taken at full-face value, we must recognize that the Campaign apparently "missed" reaching a critical block of Democratic voters, and even had no idea that their loyalty AND VOTES was in question, in an area that was interpreted as solidly Democratic. Democratic yes, but NOT, evidently, solidly Clinton. There were warnings from outside the campaign hierarchy, including Bill Clinton, that the campaign was not reaching these voters. If correct, this is a textbook case of electoral underestimation, hubris and ultimately self-defeating.

6. Sexism and Racism. Yes they played a part, but IMHO, not to the degree some think. Very few of the Hillary Hate crowd that I spoke with mentioned her gender as the preeminent reason they were anti-Clinton. Sexism may have factored in, but was further down the list. And yes, Racism may have played a role for tRump, but outside of a specific group of racist haters --the alt-Reich-- Racism was more of a "side dish" and not the main course.

Hell no. Cha Dec 2016 #1
Hell no... tecelote Dec 2016 #15
Agree, it is over, learn from the mistakes & move on. Alekzander Dec 2016 #51
Nah, this is easier. Besides, working to overhaul the Party might get you body odor. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #76
So, hopefully will get some deodrant & good body wash for Xmas. Alekzander Dec 2016 #77
Well, working to change a blown-out party does require swear, no? Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #80
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #2
Damn.. they cannot handle that?! Cha Dec 2016 #3
The alert was for "bashing Democratic figures". I see no bashing, and even if it were, Sanders is.. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #4
Right! I see no bashing of DEMS whatsoever. Cha Dec 2016 #6
New DU rules expressly state that Sanders is in this category. Just FYI... JudyM Dec 2016 #86
As i said.. no bashing of DEMS. Cha Dec 2016 #87
As I said, the post-election DU rules state that Bernie is a dem leader that is not to be bashed. JudyM Dec 2016 #88
As I say I see no bashing of DEMS! Cha Dec 2016 #89
It doesn't bash Sanders at all BainsBane Dec 2016 #8
I agree, and so far it looks like it may have survived. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #9
Thanks, Tarheel Dem. BainsBane Dec 2016 #10
According to the Site Rules, Sanders IS a Democratic figure. BlueProgressive Dec 2016 #84
The new DU rules specifically state that he is included in this category. JudyM Dec 2016 #85
Better put in the sarcasm thingy, someone did not get it Hekate Dec 2016 #5
It's not so much sarcasm as exploring a BainsBane Dec 2016 #7
BoBs are very sensitive WhiteTara Dec 2016 #41
THIS post got alerted? DFW Dec 2016 #11
Well said. OnDoutside Dec 2016 #13
Some seem to think any suggestion BainsBane Dec 2016 #14
Bernie was NOT responsible for Pearl Harbor!! Maybe the Vietnam War though!! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #26
K&R betsuni Dec 2016 #12
It is the double standard that Hillary has always been under. By the media, she was still_one Dec 2016 #16
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #17
For whatever reason, because those self-identified progressives either refused to vote, or still_one Dec 2016 #20
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #21
The strong vote for their future. The strong do something to ensure MineralMan Dec 2016 #25
"cut throat third way stuff". Russ Feingold WASN'T a third way. Zypher Teachout still_one Dec 2016 #29
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #71
hillary did better than feingold. JI7 Dec 2016 #75
Hillary's platform and positions were very liberal mcar Dec 2016 #68
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #69
You really didn't pay attention, I see mcar Dec 2016 #72
Next time must cater to the right people. Check. lapucelle Dec 2016 #57
Yes and all the " POLLS" MFM008 Dec 2016 #65
The contradiction is glaring brer cat Dec 2016 #18
Oh no. BainsBane Dec 2016 #19
back on this merry-go-round, eh? Of course Clinton's loss in the GE was NOT all her fault... Raster Dec 2016 #22
You don't seem to understand that sexists aren't even often aware of the double standards they bettyellen Dec 2016 #43
Make you a deal, you don't tell me what I "seem to understand,"... Raster Dec 2016 #44
Your premise -that sexists would admit or even be aware- has been discredited for years. bettyellen Dec 2016 #45
I am not saying the Hillary Hate came only from Fox or the GOP... Raster Dec 2016 #46
When she was help to a higher standard than Bernie, Biden, Obama and most other Dem men.... bettyellen Dec 2016 #47
I don't deny any of what you are saying, I agree... Raster Dec 2016 #48
I saw it among Dems as well, it was that pervasive. A squeaker like this was.... bettyellen Dec 2016 #49
I agree. I hope someone like Conason or other friendly author... Raster Dec 2016 #52
There were a few wild cards- the collusion w Comney as well as Wikileaks bullshit bettyellen Dec 2016 #64
Great analysis Gothmog Dec 2016 #23
the party needs to be open to all truths about this election NRQ891 Dec 2016 #24
TM99, but reality is that there was a concerted effort by third party/Sanders R B Garr Dec 2016 #28
well, let's outlaw 3rd parties then NRQ891 Dec 2016 #50
But the third party strategy, by the extremists anyway, was to lodge R B Garr Dec 2016 #54
and Perot gave the country Clinton in 1992 NRQ891 Dec 2016 #55
Sigh. This is an old, debunked canard about Ross Perot. Perot R B Garr Dec 2016 #56
ok, you sold me - let's outlaw third parties NRQ891 Dec 2016 #66
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #27
Not true BainsBane Dec 2016 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #34
What is the fact? BainsBane Dec 2016 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #37
A poll in which you get to choose only gives one option is not evidence progressoid Dec 2016 #82
Clinton's "Loss" is due to an antiquated system from the 18th century. If operated as designed... NNadir Dec 2016 #30
I've noticed that, too! Clinton's loss is her fault. Bernie's loss is Clinton's fault. R B Garr Dec 2016 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #38
Democratic Senators and Congresspersons lost their races, but that's Hillary's fault, too EffieBlack Dec 2016 #39
Makes sense to me! mcar Dec 2016 #33
I agree, it was all her fault. Exilednight Dec 2016 #36
But Bernie's loss was not his fault at all BainsBane Dec 2016 #67
No. Bernie's loss is his own. But there was a bias in DNC. Exilednight Dec 2016 #70
On Election Day when folks thought Hillary was going to win EffieBlack Dec 2016 #40
Kick & Rec sheshe2 Dec 2016 #42
Not Your Grandmothers Wisconsin elleng Dec 2016 #53
I like the top reader comments much better than the opinion piece, particularly this one: spooky3 Dec 2016 #62
Oh smart: elleng Dec 2016 #63
This is great - thanks! EffieBlack Dec 2016 #74
the election (as Greg Palast has shown) was stolen by massive GOP voter disqualification ... cloudythescribbler Dec 2016 #58
Great point. I don't remember even a single Hillary-basher pointing a finger at Bernie DanTex Dec 2016 #59
Precisely. Nt BainsBane Dec 2016 #61
It was up to her to address ALL issues. The same way every male candidate has to address issues. KittyWampus Dec 2016 #60
Not true at all. She was held to a FAR higher standard. n/t duffyduff Dec 2016 #73
And Trump addressed all issues did he? And Clinton didn't? JHan Dec 2016 #81
Damn right she was held to higher standards. apcalc Dec 2016 #78
I see what you did there. immoderate Dec 2016 #79
Oh hell no. There is always someone else to blame GummyBearz Dec 2016 #83
I don't think many people are saying it's ALL her fault. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #90
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