2016 Postmortem

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

189. We're not that far apart.

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 03:08 PM

Dec 2016

Look, I don't want us trying to appeal to outright racists and I condemn anybody who does. In a few months to a couple of years, though, those people who voted some other way on alienation/shake up the system grounds, as opposed to racism(even though theirt alienation caused them, clearly to vote for a hate-based candidate), are going to be disillusioned and realize they were played.

Is there no way at all you could envision us saying, rather than "come back, we agree that you are right to hate people different from you" something more like "you need somewhere else to go. You just got reminded that hate won't help you. If you'll stand with us, we'll stand with you"? I think that is what most of us are talking about-not endorsing anyone's bigotry, not giving any sort of hatred a pass.

Obviously we must never pull back from speaking out against bigotry.

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Which group of reliable democrats are YOU willing to lose to get White Men to vote Democratic? [View all] bravenak Nov 2016 OP

Happy to rec this mcar Nov 2016 #1

Or like we cannot get 100000 more votes after four years of donald bravenak Nov 2016 #7

Whoah, Trump/Manson matchup is uncanny. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #222

Creepy as hell huh? bravenak Dec 2016 #224

Can't some liberal billionaires relocate a couple hundred thousand Democratic voters to where they deurbano Nov 2016 #44

No kidding. LisaM Nov 2016 #50

Excuse me, but NOBODY here thinks its NOT racist Ken Burch Nov 2016 #2

There are people here advocating abandoning one group or another. Renew Deal Nov 2016 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Burch Nov 2016 #14

Embracing Trump supporters is, by definition, an abandonment of minority Democrats EffieBlack Dec 2016 #161

those are privileged heaven05 Dec 2016 #184

yes they are heaven05 Dec 2016 #181

Where? sfwriter Nov 2016 #21

Could you provide a link to people recommending that? That would be reprehensible. nt el_bryanto Nov 2016 #25

I've now heard of few people who have made bigoted comments and suggestions. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #109

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #60

You'll be waiting a long time melman Dec 2016 #146

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #151

People here are certainly doing that, Ken mcar Nov 2016 #19

What's being said is that we need to address class in addition to bigotry. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #29

Yes, let's walk and chew gum at the same time mcar Nov 2016 #32

And she didn't really try to sell the economic message at all LostOne4Ever Nov 2016 #84

Do you really not get it? EffieBlack Dec 2016 #162

In that case, it can be about making non-voters into voters. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #174

We need fewer than a hundred thousand more votes in swing states to win next time bravenak Dec 2016 #182

We're not that far apart. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #189

No reason to waste your energy trying to reason with insanity bravenak Dec 2016 #192

Well, I hope so. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #196

He sure is. But not a politician. bravenak Dec 2016 #198

This has been all over today mcar Dec 2016 #233

My god, who the hell is saying "embrace hate"? This needs to STOP. RBInMaine Nov 2016 #31

I live in rural RW Florida mcar Nov 2016 #33

That is not what is being said Lithos Dec 2016 #156

I agree with those who say we should find a different term than "identity politics". Ken Burch Dec 2016 #202

Actually, plenty of people do EffieBlack Dec 2016 #160

I'm not ever going to tell you to not attack racists. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #175

That's not the choice Renew Deal Nov 2016 #3

They don't care about policies that promote a better life for all bravenak Nov 2016 #5

We care about a better life for all Renew Deal Nov 2016 #10

And our policies already promote that bravenak Nov 2016 #11

Thats not the choice you're offering Renew Deal Nov 2016 #17

They dont CARE what I offer bravenak Nov 2016 #20

And "All Lives Matter" too.... n/t TygrBright Nov 2016 #53

We don't have to get ALL white men. Just about 14% of them. rzemanfl Nov 2016 #6

We just need 150000 more votes than last time in certain states bravenak Nov 2016 #9

Dumbasses in hopelessly red states would feel neglected. rzemanfl Nov 2016 #18

I chose other. SomethingNew Nov 2016 #8

Wtf. Is this strawman week? progressoid Nov 2016 #12

Yes bravenak Nov 2016 #15

That's not a strawman. You go after the votes of the troglodites who were willing to Squinch Nov 2016 #52

Well considering that multiple requests have been made to verify that people here are mythology Nov 2016 #86

+1 progressoid Dec 2016 #167

Where is the "None of the above" option? LonePirate Nov 2016 #13

That is other bravenak Nov 2016 #16

Democratic Party Internal Struggle for Power? jalan48 Nov 2016 #22

The same folks are still in the same positions as usual bravenak Nov 2016 #23

That could change with more "Identity Politics". No? jalan48 Nov 2016 #26

Targeting people of white identity is NOT identity politics? bravenak Nov 2016 #35

No-white people are not an "Identity" group currently. jalan48 Nov 2016 #43

White is an identity if black is an identity bravenak Nov 2016 #48

What does dealing with race have to do with it? Why do we have to "lose" a group? jalan48 Nov 2016 #56

You are the one that seems annoyed by identity politics bravenak Nov 2016 #62

Not annoyed-I don't think it's an effective strategy. This election was a good example. jalan48 Nov 2016 #69

But you don't mind white identity politics, because to you white is just a political status. Got it! bravenak Nov 2016 #71

What is white identity politics? jalan48 Nov 2016 #78

What is it? It is the standard of american politics. White centered politics. bravenak Nov 2016 #81

What is "white centered politics"? Do you think it's happening in our Party? jalan48 Nov 2016 #87

The republican party is a white centered party bravenak Nov 2016 #89

I agree with what you say about Republicans. jalan48 Nov 2016 #98

I think our voters were depressed by the non stop positive focus on Donald and the constant bravenak Nov 2016 #99

The media handed the election to Trump. Personally, I don't think it was all because of ratings. jalan48 Nov 2016 #107

Yep, we do have to give them our pitch bravenak Nov 2016 #108

Trump used white identity politics with a shit tonne of overt racism Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #148

tRump won the white male vote by appealing to racism, sexism, xenophobia, anti-semitism ... etherealtruth Nov 2016 #24

Me neither. I also will not participate in that. And I always vote bravenak Nov 2016 #36

Far too many aren't aware of how wide spread... NCTraveler Nov 2016 #27

I don't do polls.. yallerdawg Nov 2016 #28

You totally and completely miss the point. Many voted for Trump who are NOT "racist." Your thinking RBInMaine Nov 2016 #30

Who voted to deport muslims and mexicans and are not racist? bravenak Nov 2016 #37

How are the elections since 2008 going for you? Red Oak Nov 2016 #38

My state got gay marriage and legal weed since 08 bravenak Nov 2016 #41

And yet they were okay with voting for a Man who campaigned on a racist xenophobic platform.. JHan Dec 2016 #226

If they voted for a racist, BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #229

None, nor is it necessary quaker bill Nov 2016 #34

This is a BS post that just continues to tear the Democratic party apart Red Oak Nov 2016 #39

Fortunately, it doesn't work that way Dem2 Nov 2016 #40

Maybe you like the looks of the red/blue post-election map, but I don't. democrank Nov 2016 #42

So who are you willing to give up to appeal to rural white men? bravenak Nov 2016 #46

Become a bigger tent. MarvinGardens Nov 2016 #114

Rural whites stopped voting democratic after the civil rights act was passed bravenak Nov 2016 #115

The Governor's race in NC disproves your assertion. appal_jack Dec 2016 #169

And BLACK VOTERS bravenak Dec 2016 #173

Why yes; black voters were absolutely essential to this Dem victory. nt appal_jack Dec 2016 #185

Again, I'm not willing to give up anyone. democrank Dec 2016 #152

I'm fine with going after non voters as opposed to Trump voters bravenak Dec 2016 #153

Good ideas, bravenak. democrank Dec 2016 #155

None Bear Creek Nov 2016 #45

So only focus on money, ignore the issues that effect or ability to achieve equality like social bravenak Nov 2016 #47

Social Justice Bear Creek Nov 2016 #58

That is not social justice by any means. Look it up bravenak Nov 2016 #63

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #72

Not it is not bravenak Nov 2016 #73

Definition Bear Creek Nov 2016 #77

You missed the opportunities and really a dictionary does not do it justice bravenak Nov 2016 #79

You told him to look it up GummyBearz Dec 2016 #199

I didn't say where. Just like when I say look up Lysistrata I don't suggest using wikipedia bravenak Dec 2016 #200

We don't need to sell one group down the river to appeal to another... PatsFan87 Nov 2016 #49

I wouldn't mind giving up the Wall Street vote shawn703 Nov 2016 #51

Other: People who use false choices. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #54

Amen. Canadaexpat2 Dec 2016 #168

I know more white men who voted for Clinton than voted for Herr Drumpf. greatauntoftriplets Nov 2016 #55

Truth bravenak Nov 2016 #64

If you can't beat them sarisataka Nov 2016 #57

Pretty sure this is the textbook definition of a false dichotomy. SpareribSP Nov 2016 #59

Not really. It's just based on history. bravenak Nov 2016 #65

Why do you assume we'd have to drop some group SpareribSP Nov 2016 #101

Because many of them are opposed to equality for all bravenak Nov 2016 #106

You do not have to compromise you values, nor should you SpareribSP Nov 2016 #111

Trump woo'd them by being racist. It worked. Nothing more to do about that bravenak Nov 2016 #113

[Citation Needed] SpareribSP Nov 2016 #120

Not all white people voted for Trump bravenak Nov 2016 #122

Sure SpareribSP Nov 2016 #123

Nope. I am set on the fact that voting for an unabashed racist makes you racist bravenak Nov 2016 #124

Sure SpareribSP Nov 2016 #125

Because thats what appeals to them bravenak Dec 2016 #126

A few things about this SpareribSP Dec 2016 #132

We are not talking about all white people. We are talking whites that voted for Trump bravenak Dec 2016 #134

And of those SpareribSP Dec 2016 #137

You seriously do not see the hypocrisy in your posts? You wish for the demise of old white males .. cliffside Dec 2016 #138

Did you resign up just for little old me? bravenak Dec 2016 #140

Do not flatter yourself too much, Trump does that and it unbecoming. nt cliffside Dec 2016 #147

You still goin? bravenak Dec 2016 #149

K&R heaven05 Nov 2016 #61

It's ridiculous bravenak Nov 2016 #68

Dunno. White women voted for Trump over Hillary by a 9 point margin, 52-43 progree Nov 2016 #66

Yeah. But they are swing voters, not fifty year reliable repubs like the men bravenak Nov 2016 #76

I hope so, but they are not "swing voters" -- they voted for Romney by a 14 point margin and progree Nov 2016 #82

Get the "white men" vote and not lose any reliable Democrats. earthside Nov 2016 #67

We already do that. Or do you think we only give benefits to certain groups and not offer our bravenak Nov 2016 #70

Benefits? earthside Nov 2016 #85

What do you think economic growth is? It is a benefit we recieve living in this nation. bravenak Nov 2016 #88

Looks like at least one guy up there was honest about his feelings. Starry Messenger Nov 2016 #74

I know, right? bravenak Nov 2016 #75

How are they even allowed to vote? johnp3907 Dec 2016 #234

Nobody. Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2016 #80

All the racist rednecks I know wanted to vote in the general for Bernie. harun Nov 2016 #83

You're shitten me ismnotwasm Nov 2016 #118

Doesn't that make Bernie so much more appealing to you? It does for me. bravenak Nov 2016 #119

all dems have to do is stop ignoring rw radio certainot Nov 2016 #90

We need to stop ignoring that and get some loud unapologeitc people on the airwaves bravenak Nov 2016 #91

Amen. One of the best ways for rich Dems to spend their money progree Nov 2016 #94

That sucks. We might need to start a DU web based show online bravenak Nov 2016 #96

have to stop letting our universities support rw radio certainot Nov 2016 #116

Thats true. We let them get away with too much at our expense bravenak Nov 2016 #117

How about a poll on how we fix the broken Fourth Estate? SleeplessinSoCal Nov 2016 #92

It's not a fourth estate, it's a fifth column. nt Xipe Totec Nov 2016 #95

Right on Xipe Totec! SleeplessinSoCal Dec 2016 #127

Do whatever kind of poll you like bravenak Nov 2016 #97

reliable democrats? Xipe Totec Nov 2016 #93

Other. Martin Eden Nov 2016 #100

KnR Hekate Nov 2016 #102

K&R! DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #103

Bankers Bad Thoughts Nov 2016 #104

Good one bravenak Nov 2016 #105

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #110

Very small group of people bravenak Nov 2016 #112

Then it's an easy trade-off Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2016 #121

This is fabulous! betsuni Dec 2016 #128

Fri Jun 6, 2014 "After you old guys are gone the rest of us will make up the new majority." cliffside Dec 2016 #129

That was an all time great post of mine bravenak Dec 2016 #130

Seriously? Do you not see that dividing people by race and age is not something to be championed? cliffside Dec 2016 #131

It was truly great bravenak Dec 2016 #133

"the old white men who are standing in the way of progress.." cliffside Dec 2016 #141

Nothing better to do? bravenak Dec 2016 #142

I call them as as I see them, just as others did with your divisive posts in 2014 ... cliffside Dec 2016 #145

You just signed up to complain about my post from almost three years ago? How. Normal. bravenak Dec 2016 #150

I Agree. johnp3907 Dec 2016 #201

It is not only white men who voted against Mrs. Clinton, a lot of women did too. akbacchus_BC Dec 2016 #135

I never was much for polls, I just dont trust them bravenak Dec 2016 #136

Your election system is flawed, it should be proportional representation. It baffles me that a akbacchus_BC Dec 2016 #139

Trump won a greater % of the Hispanic and African-American vote than Romney. MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #171

So? She got over two millions more votes bravenak Dec 2016 #177

Ok, so you're saying we should give up on white men, African-Americans, AND Hispanics? MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #179

I say we should GIVE UP ON REPUBLICANS bravenak Dec 2016 #180

I'm not willing to trade ANY MFM008 Dec 2016 #143

Agreed bravenak Dec 2016 #144

Some of those reliable Democrats turned out to be not so reliable oberliner Dec 2016 #154

Then why aren't we wooing them instead of wooing Trump voters? Nt gollygee Dec 2016 #163

Is it possible to craft a message that would have broad appeal? oberliner Dec 2016 #165

She would have won if we got a hundred thousand more voters in swing states bravenak Dec 2016 #176

She could have won in an electoral college landslide oberliner Dec 2016 #231

Which ones did Obama sacrifice? Obama won, so based on your premise he had to Exilednight Dec 2016 #157

None! Fuck 'em. nt LexVegas Dec 2016 #158

I could have written this. But I didn't. You did. And I love you for it! EffieBlack Dec 2016 #159

The Democratic Party is a big tent party and cannot throw away groups Gothmog Dec 2016 #164

None. I'm a white guy. Rec, nt. Mc Mike Dec 2016 #166

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #170

I get your point, and it is a clever rhetorical mechanism hueymahl Dec 2016 #172

no, the OP is correct heaven05 Dec 2016 #178

Yup ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #183

I can promise you not all Trump voters are racist hueymahl Dec 2016 #188

Hell no they aren't heaven05 Dec 2016 #191

If I had to choose a particular demographic to abandon, to get some white folk voting, it'd have to Glassunion Dec 2016 #186

It would certainly sacrifice my vote if the party starts pandering to Trump voters bravenak Dec 2016 #187

Wrong metric....you don't have to give up one to get the other... Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #190

Yes you do. To pander to them you'd need to ignore minority concerns and shut us up bravenak Dec 2016 #197

Bullshit...you are angry..I get that Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #205

They do and you can deny it but you are now letting them set the reality bravenak Dec 2016 #207

I'm not letting any one set reality....EXCEPT for the the GE... Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #210

Yes it was. The tea party was racist as fuck against the muslim kenyan in the whitehouse bravenak Dec 2016 #211

More hyperble....do you know anything about the "Tea Party"..I studied it...wasn't racist based. Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #216

Yes it was bravenak Dec 2016 #217

And we had GWBush Nazi posters...Here we allowed callin a POSTUS Chimpy... Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #220

GWB acted like he was one so we called him one. That was not race based like witchdoctor posters bravenak Dec 2016 #221

That makes it better??? Do you not see the hypocrisy... Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #225

Nazi is not a race it is an ideology bravenak Dec 2016 #227

Never claimed it was.... Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #230

Broad brush much? Not everyone would refuse to belong to a club that allows white men. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2016 #193

I would if it was a political club and they were republican white men bravenak Dec 2016 #194

The limousine ones GummyBearz Dec 2016 #195

corporate dems and war mongers Lunabell Dec 2016 #203

... GummyBearz Dec 2016 #212

whites had no problem voting for Reagan Repubs radius777 Dec 2016 #213

NONE of them Brave! WE ARE the Democratic base, WE ARE THE LEFT! Maru Kitteh Dec 2016 #204

I also refuse to step aside so they can get served first bravenak Dec 2016 #206

Racists. Qutzupalotl Dec 2016 #208

I should have made that an option bravenak Dec 2016 #209

the berniebot alt-left has alot in common w/trumper alt-right, radius777 Dec 2016 #214

They are all super dooper nostalgic for 'better times' bravenak Dec 2016 #215

Exactly. the old FDR Dem party was a Dixiecrat party radius777 Dec 2016 #218

I agree with you completely bravenak Dec 2016 #219

Thank you for posting (and bravenak, too) frazzled Dec 2016 #223

None! BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #228

Me too. I'm done with them bravenak Dec 2016 #232