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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: If you don't think Bernie and his campaign and his supporters basically calling Hillary [View all]Larkspur
(12,804 posts)35. Criticizing the failed policies of the Democratic Party is not bashing the Democratic Party
The Democratic Party lost BIG time in 2016 and the old leadership deserves lots of criticism.
As Atrios said, They Had One Job
As I've said, I was never too critical of the actual Clinton campaign (though prominent Clinton surrogates, whose actual "connection" to the campaign is always debatable, were almost universally horrible). At least to the extent that I could see what they were doing, they seemed to do about what they could given the cards they were dealt. Some of those cards, like the media coverage, were unfair, but you go to campaign with the media you have. Some of those were the fault of Hillary Clinton, and it isn't echoing a right wing smear to say so, a claim oddly regularly made by many. Right wing smears are bullshit things like Benghazi which are basically made up in the fever swamps. Things that are true that right wingers pretend to care about and left wingers actually do care about aren't right wing smears. That right wingers are full of shit hypocrites doesn't invalidate all criticisms.
snip
But a bunch of people assumed the responsibility of protecting the nation from Donald Trump. This wasn't a game, a sportsball contest, this, you know, mattered. And they lost. Jeebus help us all because of it. Most of them aren't going to see their family members be deported or die of pregnancy complications. With great responsibility comes great responsibility. They took on a job, and they fucked it up. They lost the election to Donald Fucking Trump.
snip
I say "people who were paid a lot of money" because I've already seen some George Bush-style blame deflecting. You remember those days when the response to "Iraq is a disaster" was "how dare you blame the troops!" Criticizing the Clinton campaign is of course not criticizing all of the people who worked very hard with little authority for little personal reward and little publicity and little future career enhancement. It's the people in charge. Some of them probably didn't even get paid that much money, but were sure of their post-campaign careers. So, same thing.
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If you don't think Bernie and his campaign and his supporters basically calling Hillary [View all]
boston bean
Dec 2016
OP
I liked Hillary alot and would have had to hold my nose to vote for Bernie...didn't like him.
Demsrule86
Dec 2016
#160
Well those who didn't vote for her because she didn't worship at Bernie's feet
Demsrule86
Dec 2016
#174
There are a few reasons for that, and many are not opening up their minds that motivations vary.
TheBlackAdder
Dec 2016
#180
Well how would you have phrased it? If it had been Sanders and Trump for example? nt
el_bryanto
Dec 2016
#189
You don't always need to disclose the complete inner workings of your decision process.
tinrobot
Dec 2016
#198
Hillary WASN'T a weak candidate. She was one of the strongest candidates any party has ever fielded
EffieBlack
Dec 2016
#6
So true... but but but they want to say.. White people in rural areas who voted for a racist
boston bean
Dec 2016
#10
Its funny how Sanders people pointed this out in the primary and Clinton people ignored it
GummyBearz
Dec 2016
#58
You really think that Bernie would have won the general when he couldn't win the primary? (nt)
ehrnst
Dec 2016
#65
Well his head to head matchup numbers vs trump were better than Hillary's were
GummyBearz
Dec 2016
#80
They'd have to include Bloomberg since he said he was in if Bernie won the primary. n/t
seaglass
Dec 2016
#93
Everyone who doesnt participate in the GE have polling better than if they were participating.
stevenleser
Dec 2016
#102
Exactly. So tired of the flogging of that "oh, he would've been decimated for being socialist"
JudyM
Dec 2016
#170
Yes, Bernie beats trump. He wins every state HRC did PLUS the rust belt. A tragic missed oppurtunity
jack_krass
Dec 2016
#166
good post. Wonder how the general election would have turned out if Sanders was the VP?
Sunlei
Dec 2016
#77
Don't want to pick a fight, but that was not my experience in talking to folks
ReverendHeretic
Dec 2016
#52
"Talking to folks" is no substitute for objective, verified numbers and analysis.
LanternWaste
Dec 2016
#126
If she was such a strong candidate, why were her popularity numbers so low? Her trust numbers?
JudyM
Dec 2016
#157
No - 54% of all women who voted voted FOR Hillary. Please get your stats straight. (nt)
ehrnst
Dec 2016
#95
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/white-women-helped-elect-donald-trump.html?_r0
TonyPDX
Dec 2016
#107
Losing a majority of any sector was her problem, not mine. Why did they vote against her?
TonyPDX
Dec 2016
#191
she had a right to be exempt from that perception, she deserved the benefit of the doubt
NRQ891
Dec 2016
#20
So "what the hell was Bernie thinking" when he refused to release his tax returns? (nt)
ehrnst
Dec 2016
#69
OMG, someone made two entire threads to counter the dozens of B.S. threads out there!
musicblind
Dec 2016
#19
And you are absolutely correct. The only thing Sanders accomplished by smearing Hillary
R B Garr
Dec 2016
#15
what were Hillary's talking points again? What was she selling pre GE? Cuz i listened to her
JCanete
Dec 2016
#140
Criticizing the failed policies of the Democratic Party is not bashing the Democratic Party
Larkspur
Dec 2016
#35
Apparently that means jettisoning the social justice issues that have served the Dems well.
ehrnst
Dec 2016
#100
Better get on the horn to Chuck Schumer before he appoints him to another committee, then.
TonyPDX
Dec 2016
#96
Chuck Schumer handed Bernie his Senate seat which is why Bernie doesn't point a finger
ehrnst
Dec 2016
#103
No it should not ...he is not a Democrat...he could be one...but chose not to...also this is the
Demsrule86
Dec 2016
#161
The "rape fantasy" essay. The "orgasm boxes." The lack of a job until his 40s.
BobbyDrake
Dec 2016
#111
People are "still making those arguments" about millions of fraudulent voters in California
democrank
Dec 2016
#48
The same asshats who called HRC "Goldwater Girl" are fine hailing Elizabeth Warran as a hero
BobbyDrake
Dec 2016
#54
I agree that it was ridiculous to hammer her over her political beliefs at 16-17.
StevieM
Dec 2016
#86
Well, two things. I agree, dragging out somebody's past that is that far removed is ungracious.
JCanete
Dec 2016
#142
Ignoring systemic racism and sexism in favor of "color-blind" and "gender-blind" solutions WILL
BobbyDrake
Dec 2016
#145
Well we shouldn't be color or gender blind. Who is promoting that? Warren or Sanders? I've never
JCanete
Dec 2016
#152
There is a refutation of this posted on these boards. He said we can't just offer identity politics.
JCanete
Dec 2016
#158
Yeah, we need to stop catering to racists and,..what the hell are you talking about????
Spitfire of ATJ
Dec 2016
#57
This entire forum is geared towards rehashing what went wrong in 2016. As such...
stevenleser
Dec 2016
#101
The best way to deal with them is to mock them. Call them Trump humpers, Bernie Bros,
progressoid
Dec 2016
#60
"everything rigged against them (sound familiar)" Sounds VERY familiar...lots of that
jmg257
Dec 2016
#67
I still think Sanders is and was a HUGE benefit to the D party.We are weaker without him,much weaker
Sunlei
Dec 2016
#71
I disagree. I think that he is an outsider has turned the party back in terms of
ehrnst
Dec 2016
#74
He refused to join the party except temporarily to get establishment cred for his run.
ehrnst
Dec 2016
#84
He didn't want to split the vote and then run in the general election & hand republicans easy win.
Sunlei
Dec 2016
#87
And yet that was ultimately all that he accomplished anyway. He put Democrat against Democrat.
BobbyDrake
Dec 2016
#112
So if Obama lost in 2008, it would be Hillary's fault for running against him in the primary?
killbotfactory
Dec 2016
#127
If Hillary had behaved like Bernie did, maybe. but Obama was a man, so there's that.
ehrnst
Dec 2016
#182
Whether it's accurate or not, the fact remains that Hillary and Donald were the two most distrusted
Cal33
Dec 2016
#88
Yes, every democrat absolutely LOVED Hillary before Bernie came along...
killbotfactory
Dec 2016
#89
Before Bernie, apparently no one needed to "love" Hillary for her to be an acceptable candidate.
ehrnst
Dec 2016
#104
The bill was designed to take the issue of flag burning back to the supreme court
killbotfactory
Dec 2016
#109
You can say that a bill that people forgot about had no impact on the GE, because on the one hand it
JCanete
Dec 2016
#138
always good to have a respectful discussion with you! I'm not sure it fits this sub-forum, but if
JCanete
Dec 2016
#151
feeling is mutual, good to have a calm discussion on things. And I'm up for a thread on trade..:)
JHan
Dec 2016
#159
Well good for you about never voting for a racist. The problem with that statement though,
JCanete
Dec 2016
#135
And a HUGE step is recognizing and acknowledginthat how people of varying ethnic and minority groups
ismnotwasm
Dec 2016
#143