2016 Postmortem

JCanete

(5,272 posts)

94. first of all, do you think anybody on this site thought Trump was going to do good things in office

Sat Nov 26, 2016, 06:31 PM

Nov 2016

Last edited Sun Nov 27, 2016, 02:45 AM - Edit history (1)

You are making up your own damn narrative about what they were saying, which is the only way you could believe they would come hear astonished and appalled at what Trump is doing. It was always a given that he would be a horrible President. The hope I think, was that he was going to galvanize people against him to get a reactionary populist push-back, a kind of wake-up call by being confronted with crazy that gets people politically active and energized to fight against his policies. The other hope was that the democratic party would have a choice to make. either quit being the minor corporate party alternative to the major corporate party and start getting back support, or face a future of losing elections.

That all said, I was personally moved by the actually progressive democratic party platform and Clinton's eventual adoption of those policies in her campaign rhetoric, and ultimately thought that it would be better to hold her feet to the fire than to burn it all down since the risks of the latter are so great, but I don't begrudge Clinton enthusiasts for having a more optimistic view of our government anymore than I begrudge people who thought the whole thing was on such a bad trajectory that a drastic shakeup was worth the hopefully shorter-term horror. I think they were wrong, but I see no reason to hold grudges and add to divisiveness.

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If you fought against Hillary Clinton after the Democratic convention, [View all] MineralMan Nov 2016 OP

I strongly disagree with any Democrat who fought against Hillary after the convention mtnsnake Nov 2016 #1

Each person will do as he or she thinks best, I'm sure. MineralMan Nov 2016 #2

Each person that didn't vote for Hillary: helped put a fascist in office: Just like Nader lewebley3 Nov 2016 #79

Actually is wasn't Nader, it was the 308,000 Florida Dems who voted Bush Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #114

It was Nader and the SCOTUS Raastan Nov 2016 #119

Each one of those voters controlled only one vote -- their own. pnwmom Nov 2016 #149

No doubt, but as a reluctant supporter of Hillary - but supporter nonetheless - after she won the nomination, I don't think it's a good idea to alienate those who may not have done so... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2016 #129

I will join the OP in remembering. musicblind Nov 2016 #83

this post is way out there. Calling people monsters who do vote on principle, like JCanete Nov 2016 #89

Yeah it is OTT. OTOH they had an opportunity to vote for the only candidate who could stop Trump. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #96

Tell that to all the undocumented minorities whose parents brought them to the US as babies NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #97

by that logic, tell anybody from Iraq that the people who voted for Hillary, including myself, JCanete Nov 2016 #98

By your logic every person who did NOT vote for Hillary is responsible for the dead kids in Aleppo NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #100

so we're on the on the same page. Calling people monsters for voting their conscience, no matter how JCanete Nov 2016 #101

I didn't call anyone monsters...but the BOBs and Stein voters may as well have voted for Trump IMO NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #102

and with that kind of break-down, we can most certainly never come back from it. JCanete Nov 2016 #106

You should not assume things... NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #107

Let me make it clear because you're right about one thing, I was not sensitive to JCanete Nov 2016 #109

I think what many people fail to understand is that Trump being elected genuinely HURTS many people NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #111

Well take me. I did vote for Hillary. But actually count me as someone JCanete Nov 2016 #113

I'm just frustrated with people on here claiming Bernie would have won when he would NOT have NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #120

I will admit that my post was harsh and that I could have said that in a better way. musicblind Nov 2016 #117

Thanks for your reply, and I feel like I've been unfairly demanding of a lot of people who are JCanete Nov 2016 #118

Very well said NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #121

Besides, blaming Nader defies the evidence. alarimer Nov 2016 #138

Please give up the Nader denialism. It's amazing that Nader supporters redstateblues Nov 2016 #178

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #3

And if you think Bernie wasn't a weak general election candidate, I have a nice bridge for sale. LisaL Nov 2016 #4

All polls showed Bernie was easily the strongest candidate from either party. cpwm17 Nov 2016 #5

Yeah! Polls! LOL! Madam45for2923 Nov 2016 #9

Hillary was the weakest among the Democrats, according to the polls. cpwm17 Nov 2016 #18

Polls again!? Polls the wiener of 2016!!! Madam45for2923 Nov 2016 #25

All the polls I saw showed Hillary winning right up to election day world wide wally Nov 2016 #50

You can't base it on polls that don't reflect the opposition they had against him for fuck's sake. JTFrog Nov 2016 #12

His visit with the pope... Blanks Nov 2016 #68

Essay Lotusflower70 Nov 2016 #104

You are just making Eichenwald's point. JTFrog Nov 2016 #108

Explanation Lotusflower70 Nov 2016 #110

oops, wrong place JCanete Nov 2016 #115

well in a season of "grab them by the pussy", at worst an essay would have been a wash. JCanete Nov 2016 #116

Bernie could never win because he's too far left for moderate Independents NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #13

Because all those PoC that rejected Bernie... SaschaHM Nov 2016 #15

Unvetted Bernie perhaps mcar Nov 2016 #37

For Someone Who Was Never Properly Vetted otohara Nov 2016 #74

That must be why he won then . . . oh wait . . . Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #93

Take a look at Kurt Eichenwald's postmortem when you get a chance emulatorloo Nov 2016 #99

Eichenwald dispelled this myth BainsBane Nov 2016 #150

Those polls were way beyond the margin of error, too. JudyM Nov 2016 #174

Yes. He was a weak primary candidate too--he lost by millions of votes, and many states he "won" MADem Nov 2016 #31

This message was self-deleted by its author INdemo Nov 2016 #184

I'm not addressing the primary race at all. MineralMan Nov 2016 #7

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #17

Hmm...perhaps. MineralMan Nov 2016 #20

Nope, ain't gonna work dude. lapucelle Nov 2016 #42

We have enough problems with the right calling progressives communists, to also Baitball Blogger Nov 2016 #6

The problems we WILL have will be with an unqualified Republican MineralMan Nov 2016 #8

My mistake. Baitball Blogger Nov 2016 #10

Read my words. I used the words "fought against," MineralMan Nov 2016 #11

Does the difference between forget and forgive really matter? Baitball Blogger Nov 2016 #14

There is an enormous difference in meaning between those MineralMan Nov 2016 #16

You have a right to your opinions. Baitball Blogger Nov 2016 #19

I've been aware of the Green Party for decades now. MineralMan Nov 2016 #21

Maybe Stein is looking back at history and realizing that Baitball Blogger Nov 2016 #24

My concern for Jill Stein runs about one molecule deep. MineralMan Nov 2016 #27

The Green Party comes around every 4 years and has cost the Democrats the presidential asuhornets Nov 2016 #35

The saddest part of the "Nader effect" is that is also soils Bernie Sanders NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #55

I am right there with you radical noodle Nov 2016 #65

And I stated them carefully and seriously. MineralMan Nov 2016 #22

Make a difference? heaven05 Nov 2016 #54

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #23

I guess Bye? Madam45for2923 Nov 2016 #26

Shoot. I missed it... MineralMan Nov 2016 #28

She will garner more than 3 million votes more than Trump. Baitball Blogger Nov 2016 #29

I think 2 million of us in heavily Dems States should spread to the Red States Madam45for2923 Nov 2016 #32

Wake up call. Baitball Blogger Nov 2016 #34

K&R stonecutter357 Nov 2016 #30

Yes, they can't be trusted and if they didn't vote for Hillary they are not welcome here. n/t seaglass Nov 2016 #33

Short-sighted and foolish... sfwriter Nov 2016 #105

Take it up with Skinner - the price of admission to DU is a vote for Hillary or support for her seaglass Nov 2016 #169

Right there with you MM mcar Nov 2016 #36

The problem does not sit with those who actively fought against Clinton. Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #38

I disagree. Those who actively fought influenced others as well. MineralMan Nov 2016 #39

There's more worth remembering that just that FBaggins Nov 2016 #40

Nonsense. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #43

Welcome to DU! FBaggins Nov 2016 #49

Not new but you know that... Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #125

Of course... and YOU knew that FBaggins Nov 2016 #136

They had a vote just like the rest of us and once the primary was over and he lost by millions of Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #159

The primary is over Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #127

The election is over too. We lost. FBaggins Nov 2016 #137

I'm so tired of the idea that the primary caused the loss. alarimer Nov 2016 #140

How would we exempt the primary process from evaluating why we lost? FBaggins Nov 2016 #144

You don't get to decide who calls the shots...we all decide. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #158

That's just amusing Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #58

The only people I saw told were not needed were those reposting RW trash against HRC....the ethics bettyellen Nov 2016 #80

Not what I saw or experienced Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #84

And that is worth remembering! KPN Nov 2016 #45

Agreed 100% Arazi Nov 2016 #61

Took 8 weeks and 3 days after the nomination was won... joshcryer Nov 2016 #156

Damned right. JudyM Nov 2016 #175

Yup. ismnotwasm Nov 2016 #41

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #44

Nope, wrong heaven05 Nov 2016 #47

Hillary lost by less than 1 point across three states that mattered. LisaL Nov 2016 #48

Guessing doesn't make it true. George Eliot Nov 2016 #51

Guessing that Bernie would have won doesn't make it true either. LisaL Nov 2016 #53

Ah... but his supporters don't have to "delude themselves"... FBaggins Nov 2016 #63

We're well past the point where thwarted entitlement couched as righteous indignation lapucelle Nov 2016 #64

Rofl! Let me see if I've got this straight FBaggins Nov 2016 #71

Sorry, darlin, but I don't live in the simplistic world of false dichotomy lapucelle Nov 2016 #76

Laughter is the only appropriate response to such nonsense. FBaggins Nov 2016 #78

Sanders primary voters voted for Clinton in the general election.. aidbo Nov 2016 #82

This chart doesn't represent votes cast on election day. lapucelle Nov 2016 #87

Nope. ismnotwasm Nov 2016 #59

Actually, no. Had I voted for Sanders, he still wouldn't have gotten MineralMan Nov 2016 #66

Because he would win PA and VA, two states that he lost in the primary? SaschaHM Nov 2016 #75

great post heaven05 Nov 2016 #46

Thank you and I'm glad you have that good memory treestar Nov 2016 #52

I did and held my nose Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #56

Not worth it HassleCat Nov 2016 #57

It won't come up unless those who voted and worked against Clinton MineralMan Nov 2016 #67

Going to be some "told you so!" HassleCat Nov 2016 #81

first of all, do you think anybody on this site thought Trump was going to do good things in office JCanete Nov 2016 #94

KnR Hekate Nov 2016 #60

The Bernie fanatics will have blood on their hands. liquid diamond Nov 2016 #62

They have no conscience. musicblind Nov 2016 #86

And I'll remember all those who said that Hillary couldn't lose. She's the strongest candidate to Exilednight Nov 2016 #69

I think it was said she was the "most qualified candidate", in fact she was the most qualified, Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #72

People on this very board, the OP included, stated in former posts that she was the strongest Exilednight Nov 2016 #73

Which candidate was more qualified? Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #112

Defined "most qualified". I find it to be a subjective term. Exilednight Nov 2016 #139

I got your point, being the most qualified candidate is not a Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #143

It is subjective. Just because someone held a job, it doesn't mean they're qualified. Exilednight Nov 2016 #145

Likewise, Sanders has been in Congress for twenty five years, he is not ranked at the top Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #154

I agree, that ranking you posted is subjective. Exilednight Nov 2016 #157

What did you find Sanders was ranked? Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #161

Depends on your point of view. Exilednight Nov 2016 #162

No, you can't blame his ratings on a Republican Congress, there were other members Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #163

Like I said, Republican controlled Congress. Exilednight Nov 2016 #164

Okay, Sanders performed lower in a Republican than other Democrats. Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #165

Based on whose criteria? it's all subjective. Exilednight Nov 2016 #166

I have provided you the link already. Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #167

A link that proves nothing about someone qualifications. It's just a study to be used to form an Exilednight Nov 2016 #168

No, this link is based on facts, you have only provided your opinion. Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #170

It's a study, nothing more. it offers no actual conclusions that determines a person's qualification Exilednight Nov 2016 #171

For me it is quiet ample in determining his qualification, the best way to Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #172

And that's your subjective opinion. Exilednight Nov 2016 #173

No, you should check what subjective opinion means and then see if this is Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #176

I know exactly what subjective opinion means. What you see as negatives I see as positives. It just Exilednight Nov 2016 #177

Bye, I busy on important issues. Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #179

Honest debate with give and take isn't your thing. Good luck with your issues. Exilednight Nov 2016 #181

Damn right. Bobbie Jo Nov 2016 #70

Those of us who stayed were with her democrattotheend Nov 2016 #77

I voted for the Democratic candidate Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #85

B. Obama and Michelle had it right. "Hillary was most qualified of oasis Nov 2016 #88

I think we have bigger problems than how a few people acted on Democratic Underground. jalan48 Nov 2016 #90

Senate and house were already lost. We weren't able to get them back. LisaL Nov 2016 #91

So that's a problem, right? jalan48 Nov 2016 #92

Well I can't say you'll find anything to argue you I worked against Hillary. DemocraticWing Nov 2016 #95

Please add me to your enemies list... sfwriter Nov 2016 #103

If they fought against Hillary after she won the nomination, they don't belong here. n/t Lil Missy Nov 2016 #122

Well, many left or were shown the door, but MineralMan Nov 2016 #123

K&R! DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #124

Since no one fought against HRC here after the convention aikoaiko Nov 2016 #126

Memories fade so quickly... MineralMan Nov 2016 #128

But not as fast as imaginary resentments are created aikoaiko Nov 2016 #130

Donald? Is that you? Lil Missy Nov 2016 #142

IM me an example if you have one. aikoaiko Nov 2016 #148

That's one of the funniest things I've ever read on this website. TwilightZone Nov 2016 #146

Maybe you could IM me an example. aikoaiko Nov 2016 #147

I will also never forget and never stfu about it bravenak Nov 2016 #131

I'm shocked and surprised, I tell you! MineralMan Nov 2016 #132

I know, right! I'm just so chill you wouldn't guess it of me. Plus humble. bravenak Nov 2016 #153

Put me on your vindictive list right now then Arazi Nov 2016 #133

No, I won't be doing that. Sorry. MineralMan Nov 2016 #134

Uh huh. Right Arazi Nov 2016 #135

are we talking about the same election? mikehiggins Nov 2016 #141

Yep. Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2016 #160

This pretty much sums up the whole thing. Exilednight Nov 2016 #180

Our old friends at JPR are back to suggesting we need a "new" Party...so I wouldn't call them Dems brooklynite Nov 2016 #151

I will also remember you Gothmog Nov 2016 #152

K&R betsuni Nov 2016 #155

MTE .Great post lunamagica Nov 2016 #182

I dont recall anyone fighting against Hillary here after the primary.... INdemo Nov 2016 #183

Well, it wouldn't be DU without years of recrimination. Orsino Nov 2016 #185

Coulda sworn zipplewrath Nov 2016 #186