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BainsBane

(57,289 posts)
73. Perhaps you should think about how easily you dismiss the votes of
Sat Jul 2, 2016, 01:12 AM
Jul 2016

the non-white male majority, as though we are somehow less than you? I submit that it is precisely that attitude that ensured he would not win our votes.

What you call a "narrative" was the demographic reality of the vote. Sanders supporters reaction to netroots began a chain of events and revealed an attitude that was present throughout the primary. The notion that Sanders might have to speak to the array of actual voters was seen as unacceptable. We were told we were weak women or "race-baiting" when we asked to know what he would do about abortion rights and racial inequality. As far back as last summer, his supporters insisted we had no right to question him. We learned later in the primary that intolerance for questioning or disagreement came from the top. Organizations whose members but their lives on the line to defend abortion rights were insulted as "establishment" for failing to endorse him. Southern black voters were dismissed as "confederates" and not "smart" enough to vote for him. None of that amounts to a winning campaign strategy.

You seem to imagine that if Sanders only had another 9 months to run, we feeble minded folk would have finally understood how much better he was, as though there was something complicated about his message. With more time, we might have finally caught on to how the good old days he told us we should bring back were really better for us. Only the demographics of the electorate didn't change throughout the primary season, except for an uptick of white and male support for Clinton near the end.


Falling back into the narrative that the Sanders phenomenon is some sort of expression of a racial divide means running head first into a trap. It is a convenient narrative, since it places the blame on some outside influence that lies beyond the control of the party


You really don't get it at all. There isn't a racial "divide" within the party. The Democratic party IS based on racial diversity; that diversity is central to its identity and mission. Sanders inability to win is not the Democratic Party's problem. It's him. His message was aimed at the white middle class, partly by design http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-voters
and partly because it was simply how he viewed the world. For Sanders and his supporters, America's best days were fifty-odd years ago, but for many, many Americans--most in fact--those were not better days. Sanders talked about poverty being at an all time high, but the fact is that's not true. Poverty is now lower than it was in the 1970s. The one demographic that has seen an economic decline since that period is white men. Yet Sanders entire vision of America was based on the experiences of that group, not all Americans, which is why his message didn't resonate. It's not that he intentionally sought to exclude, but rather his worldview is so bound by his own subject position that he never looked outside that, even when fact checkers pointed out his rhetoric about poverty rates was in error. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jan/23/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-says-poverty-us-all-time-high/

Clinton and the rest of the Democratic party don't neglect issues of economic insecurity and poverty. Clinton's has highlighted those issues throughout the campaign and her issues page of her website is filled with policy positions on how to address it. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/plan-raise-american-incomes/ https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/ She, not Sanders, in fact won a majority of the poorest voters (incomes under $30k a year). Just because Bernie believed he should get the votes of the poor didn't make it so.

I can tell you as someone who grew up as a poor white person in America, I found his rhetoric alienating. I don't long to return to the days when my family was terribly poor. Having worked from age 10 and earned W-2 income from age 13 in order to do pay for laundry, school clothes and the occasional movie, I found perplexing his pronouncement that the children of the upper-middle class shouldn't have to work 10 hours a week to contribute to their own higher education. I also could see that his promises of "free" higher ed without any attention to the tremendous inequality in K-12 would only not address inequality and might have possibly worsened it. Sanders focus was very much on the middle class, which is not uncommon for politicians, but when he decided talking about poverty was the way to address African American voters, it started to get strange. I was particularly puzzled when he doubled down on his claims in a debate that white people didn't know what it was like to be poor, and then when a support of his defended that comment to me by saying whites didn't suffer "institutionalized poverty."

You go on,

.It saves one from having to take a look in the mirror.


That is precisely what this OP of yours is engaged in. You've decided to erase the votes of the majority, pretend people just defaulted into voting for Clinton without thinking. You simply can't conceive that the majority of voters believed she would make a better president due to experience, competence, and depth of policy positions. You decide Clinton and the Democratic Party don't pay attention to economic inequality because....why I'm not sure. Perhaps because they don't capture the rage of a certain segment of the electorate that Sanders tapped into. The voting results show, however, that his message was not universal. It is also my opinion that voters who took time to actually look into his record found a certain inconsistency between rhetoric and action.

This post is a demonstration of why Sanders and his supporters didn't succeed in expanding support to the majority. You continue to dismiss the votes and concerns of the non-white male majority as a "narrative." You are invested in refusing to understand that not all Americans experiences and concerns are identical to yours. You don't respect us enough to even try to understand why we voted as we did. So you talk down to us, dismiss our votes as automatic, unthinking, and in the process show precisely why your candidate lost.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

And that economic discomfort will continue demwing Jul 2016 #1
Your comparisons for Sanders are very confusing. tonyt53 Jul 2016 #3
more people liked her message SoLeftIAmRight Jul 2016 #26
The majority vote in state after state is a fact. Hortensis Jul 2016 #33
Climate change and the sixth global mass-extinction event is happening now SoLeftIAmRight Jul 2016 #49
Hillary thoughtfully addresses the problems of climate change pnwmom Jul 2016 #55
great SoLeftIAmRight Jul 2016 #60
She doesn't, actually. Scootaloo Jul 2016 #77
Fracking? rickford66 Jul 2016 #100
Please don't refight the primary. Bernie isn't the presumptive nominee. nt pnwmom Jul 2016 #103
Do you even understand fracking? I make a good living from alternative and renewable fuels tonyt53 Jul 2016 #104
lol La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #64
I would think that if 16,838,264 voted for Clinton and 13,100,987 voted for Sanders, the premise.... George II Jul 2016 #70
The only fact you get from that is that Clinton got 3,737,277 more votes Scootaloo Jul 2016 #78
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #87
.+1 840high Jul 2016 #47
The narrative is wrong. The word "young" was left out before white male. tonyt53 Jul 2016 #2
Thanks for saving the rest of us the time in making the same point. politicaljunkie41910 Jul 2016 #17
This explains what is going on with the "revolution." BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #20
Awesomely interesting! Entryism definition Her Sister Jul 2016 #42
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #46
That's about how 840high Jul 2016 #48
You do realize she won delegates based on how people voted right? mythology Jul 2016 #92
That's the claim anyway. timmymoff Jul 2016 #96
Your assumption that we're not part of the party is vile Scootaloo Jul 2016 #79
You just saved me a BUNCH of time with this reply. Thanks bravenak Jul 2016 #44
No we can't!! Isn't that inspiring? eridani Jul 2016 #74
^^^AMEN to this!^^^ Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #95
Hillary won because more Democrats voted for her still_one Jul 2016 #102
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #4
LOL! Politicalboi Jul 2016 #7
What a shameful piece of text. SpareribSP Jul 2016 #11
The Mothers, The Grandmothers DianaForRussFeingold Jul 2016 #13
Can you explain how "bro" could possibly be considered racist? Is there some sort of hardship bettyellen Jul 2016 #24
To some, it is a pseudo-ghetto title...not quite a pejorative, libdem4life Jul 2016 #28
No it's actually referring to generally I whiter generic collegiate dudes..... bettyellen Jul 2016 #30
It was a mistake. DianaForRussFeingold Jul 2016 #35
"friendly" ?! DianaForRussFeingold Jul 2016 #29
Yeah dudes and bros have generally positive connotations.....the only negative would bettyellen Jul 2016 #31
I Miss-typed DianaForRussFeingold Jul 2016 #37
Well people use dude and bro for both sexes- it's just like "pal" but sort of young maybe post bettyellen Jul 2016 #38
Well, that's not how the term "berniebro" has been used. Ever. Scootaloo Jul 2016 #81
It's not that a singular bro is a bad thing - it's the swarm of bros we all saw on Reddit and even bettyellen Jul 2016 #93
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #111
It doesn't matter. No matter how polls hyped Hillary from the get-go, people need to be more BlueCaliDem Jul 2016 #5
The only group that went for Bernie was the one he pandered to. CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #6
Those are policies he has fought for his entire political career. bvar22 Jul 2016 #12
Where are the bills he introduced in Congress for free health care and free tuition the politicaljunkie41910 Jul 2016 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author DianaForRussFeingold Jul 2016 #15
Bingo Justice Jul 2016 #21
+1, they didn't put much resources in the southern states uponit7771 Jul 2016 #32
And that gorup is our future eridani Jul 2016 #75
Question... Scootaloo Jul 2016 #82
For example: CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #90
That he was inexperienced and basically unknowledge about social bettyellen Jul 2016 #98
There are a number of very good reasons why Sanders didnot win the vote of key groups Gothmog Jul 2016 #8
I would go so far as to guess that the Clinton campaign's vetting of Sanders as an opponent is why BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #22
I agree with everything you said about President Obama, and would just add the following: politicaljunkie41910 Jul 2016 #23
+1 uponit7771 Jul 2016 #34
Most voted for Hillary because she is the most qualified, has the most experience upaloopa Jul 2016 #9
The "sore winner" phenomenon, as you call it, is about one thing and one thing only. DanTex Jul 2016 #10
Your third paragraph is exactly right realmirage Jul 2016 #41
Hillary won because she is the better candidate. JaneyVee Jul 2016 #14
. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #16
^^This^^ Loki Jul 2016 #68
Bernie Sanders lost because of his mistaken belief KMOD Jul 2016 #18
nope SoLeftIAmRight Jul 2016 #27
+1, angry is easy answers are hard and being sideways at one of the most popular dem presidents... uponit7771 Jul 2016 #36
Bingo! bravenak Jul 2016 #45
He had no relationships with the demographics he needed to win. Starry Messenger Jul 2016 #25
And Bernie's numbers were rising and stopped when he began attacking Hillary CreekDog Jul 2016 #108
Don't forget that Hillary has been under almost constant attack since the 1990's. pnwmom Jul 2016 #39
Describing Hillary merely as the "default candidate" is highly offensive realmirage Jul 2016 #40
+10000000000 Haveadream Jul 2016 #50
THANK YOU!!!!! robbedvoter Jul 2016 #54
K&R! Great Response! n/t DemonGoddess Jul 2016 #65
Totally agree. nt eastwestdem Jul 2016 #43
I think it's disingenuous of us to be dismissive of the discontent. randome Jul 2016 #51
OWS wanted to recruit Warren. Sanders was Plan B robbedvoter Jul 2016 #53
If the disconnect grows more strongly down the road, I think both 'sides' will be to blame. randome Jul 2016 #57
Charisma is a subjective thing, To you, media she is not, To her voters robbedvoter Jul 2016 #69
Money quote. forjusticethunders Jul 2016 #72
It didn't help that most of you laughed when we got our asses beat Scootaloo Jul 2016 #83
No one laughed at you and no one is laughing at you now. randome Jul 2016 #84
Ah yes, I'm lying about my experiences Scootaloo Jul 2016 #85
No one ever said you were lying, either. randome Jul 2016 #86
So, the majority D voters are numbskulls who voted for generic candidate robbedvoter Jul 2016 #52
I'm sure the women of Iraq and Libya are endlessly thrilled n/t eridani Jul 2016 #76
The things... Mike Nelson Jul 2016 #56
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #58
Well, sure a virgo would say that. We libras, on the other hand, know better. randome Jul 2016 #59
LOL. yeah. that was it. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #63
. RandySF Jul 2016 #61
Change is scary TexasBushwhacker Jul 2016 #62
Nope DemonGoddess Jul 2016 #67
Nope. We actually like and respect her. grossproffit Jul 2016 #71
So many posters here who voted for Sanders think that Hillary won because of something wrong with us CreekDog Jul 2016 #109
If that's what you need to tell yourself MaggieD Jul 2016 #66
Perhaps you should think about how easily you dismiss the votes of BainsBane Jul 2016 #73
I guess even democracy has to be Bernsplained to us. RandySF Jul 2016 #80
Sanders lost because of the African-American vote oberliner Jul 2016 #88
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #101
That's true oberliner Jul 2016 #105
How'd that argument work out? BainsBane Jul 2016 #110
If the GOP becomes the party of economic populism TheFarseer Jul 2016 #89
I disagree ismnotwasm Jul 2016 #91
Ugh. A long, long post that simply regurgitates what BS supporters have said or implied all along: Squinch Jul 2016 #94
Agreed La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #97
perfectly said, G_j Jul 2016 #99
why are you relitigating the primary? comradebillyboy Jul 2016 #106
Arguments such as this ignore several things Buzz cook Jul 2016 #107
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Why Sanders lost, and why...»Reply #73