2016 Postmortem

Vattel

(9,289 posts)

186. How many voters, whether white or AA/POC, currently have well-reasoned and well-informed judgments

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:58 PM

Feb 2016

about the abilities of the candidates? I would guess it is a pretty small percentage. So there is no reason for anyone to be insulted by the suggestion that lack of familiarity with Sanders is a factor in Clinton's lead among AA/POC. Take that factor, add the many misrepresentations of Sanders' record on issues of race by HRC supporters, and the relentless sweeping generalizations about Sanders supporters behaving in a racist way, and you can account for a lot of Clinton's lead among POC. And that lead has been shrinking as voters become more familiar with Bernie and as the misrepresentations of his record are corrected.

I agree with you that some AAs/POCs, like some whites, simply aren't buying what he is selling. Others no doubt think he can't win in the GE. I am not worried about that sort of voter. I just want Bernie and Hillary to be evaluated on the basis of their actual records, what they are selling, and their electability. Then let the votes fall where they may.

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I don't get this whole PoC discussion... [View all] basselope Feb 2016 OP

Your post doesn't help, it's tone deaf. JRLeft Feb 2016 #1

As is Clinton... basselope Feb 2016 #5

How the hell is that tone deaf? People claiming POC are not interested in fair pay, jobs, Live and Learn Feb 2016 #7

To be clear, the argument is that POC don't believe Sanders can deliver those things Recursion Feb 2016 #26

But Hillary's not even TRYING to push for "those things". So that's somehow "better"? nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #33

I haven't heard that argument at all. I have heard people like Hillary and some DUers say that Live and Learn Feb 2016 #38

I've always said the alleged mass black support for Clinton was an illusion Recursion Feb 2016 #43

I will agree with the skepticism but it is not that he can't win. It is whether he will actually Live and Learn Feb 2016 #52

Have you ever visited the sheshe2 Feb 2016 #70

Don't ssshhh me, Sheshe. I have been to the group many times. In fact, I have been quite Live and Learn Feb 2016 #71

K sheshe2 Feb 2016 #72

I have Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #86

Passing a bill alone won't help black people, because of institutionalized racism. JRLeft Feb 2016 #35

Are you saying no steps have been made against racism? Of course they have and they start with Live and Learn Feb 2016 #42

Google the term institutionalized racism. JRLeft Feb 2016 #44

Don't need to. I am quite aware of what it means. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #48

So HOW do you expect to even begin to address it without polly7 Feb 2016 #94

Great post. PotatoChip Feb 2016 #212

Historically legislation has generally been the last step, not the first (nt) Recursion Feb 2016 #45

I certainly disagree! nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #50

That's not actually true. Millennials are just about as racist as their parents. gollygee Feb 2016 #87

It's NOT that they are "not interested"--- John Poet Feb 2016 #75

I agree that justice system reform is a big issue that needs to be addressed and it is one I Live and Learn Feb 2016 #77

We (white liberals) need to do better at avoiding being preachy, John Poet Feb 2016 #80

Funny, the ones I have seen being preachy are mainly white Hillary supporters on DU. Live and Learn Feb 2016 #82

No! Bernie Sanders supporters have been disgusting patronizing. Many borderline racists. Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #224

Not the way I see it. Good luck on making the correct choice. Live and Learn Feb 2016 #226

I've followed Bernie Sanders' career for many years. I know his platform well. I'm leaning Sanders, Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #236

And yet Hillary surrogate former Philly Mayor Nutter today condemned Sanders for talking about Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #144

I don't say 'he only talks economics', and certainly not anymore. John Poet Feb 2016 #147

A black, Hillary supporting former mayor. And it was just today, while you are saying that's what he Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #156

That's just weird. John Poet Feb 2016 #158

Hey man Glamrock Feb 2016 #160

That is completely false. Vattel Feb 2016 #172

^^^This. artislife Feb 2016 #32

well, it was explained that Hillary is more likely to protect Obama's legacy. grasswire Feb 2016 #2

Bernie hasn't "threatened" Obama's legacy in any real way. basselope Feb 2016 #9

Exactly, Bernie will build on his legacy. Hillary will let it stagnate and rot away. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #12

How will Sanders build on it when everything depends on some sort of revolution? Gothmog Feb 2016 #191

Revolutions ARE real world solutions. Attempting to negotiate with the right wing is an exercise in Live and Learn Feb 2016 #207

I found these comments from Barney Frank to be appropriate Gothmog Feb 2016 #190

Excellent post Gothmog. Solid. (eom) oasis Feb 2016 #205

That is complete bull. Sanders HAS given Obama credit for the ACA. Wanting to improve upon it Live and Learn Feb 2016 #209

Sanders said that the ACA is not good enough for him and wants to replace it Gothmog Feb 2016 #210

He wants to IMPROVE it by expanding Medicare for everyone. Live and Learn Feb 2016 #211

Proposing a plan that will never be adopted is not productive Gothmog Feb 2016 #222

Proposing nothing and expecting to be elected is just ridiculous. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #223

I could not have stated this any better! Simply brilliant!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #225

When it comes to foreign affairs it's actually Bernie that will protect Obama's legacy. jillan Feb 2016 #49

she's just saying that to appeal to POC; the reality is she has worked against his legacy and derail amborin Feb 2016 #121

I don't see how her "Pragmatic" course protects his legacy Lazy Daisy Feb 2016 #196

It defies reason AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #3

Your post doesn't help I'm trying to get more black people on our side JRLeft Feb 2016 #6

It defies reason AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #8

I hope Bernie doesn't think like you, otherwise we will lose. JRLeft Feb 2016 #16

Explain what's so wonderful about her then AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #24

I don't like her at all. JRLeft Feb 2016 #216

Other people have different worldviews. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #126

Please try explaining what that means. basselope Feb 2016 #17

I know a lot of black who are pro Bernie too. Most black are riding with Hillary JRLeft Feb 2016 #22

Why? AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #25

I can, but I am also an honest observer nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #136

My friends are 35-45 range. basselope Feb 2016 #27

It is partly the electability issue. Like many other democrats, they believe Hillary tblue37 Feb 2016 #81

On what evidence do you base this? basselope Feb 2016 #107

Articles I have read that quote some African Americans saying so. nt tblue37 Feb 2016 #128

Who wrote those articles? basselope Feb 2016 #134

Of course not, which is why I qualified the comment. nt tblue37 Feb 2016 #139

So no REAL evidence then.. just some articles you kinda remember reading, but cannot cite. basselope Feb 2016 #170

Bernie's supporters will prevent you from doing that, while screaming that Squinch Feb 2016 #215

Uh-huh!! :) Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #231

Not insensitive. Racist! Black people are idiots? Way to win over voters. Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #227

Soooooo, for the last 7 months PoC on DU have NOT been screaming out loud why Sanders... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #21

Tell us why they support Clinton? AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author jillan Feb 2016 #51

There have been numerous post on the issue in the last half year, you can't throw a rock around here uponit7771 Feb 2016 #103

So you support her but cannot come up with an answer why people support her? AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #104

OK, I'm White RobinA Feb 2016 #129

RobinA, you were asked to state why you are for Clinton, not for your reasons to oppose Bernie. Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #146

I see the same things. Mondale was the last Democrat that ran on raising taxes redstateblues Feb 2016 #152

and yet what you 'see' is not really persuasive to me, your fears are not my own and lots of people Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #159

Exactly Bobbie Jo Feb 2016 #101

+1 uponit7771 Feb 2016 #102

someone just suggested to me I'd like to "bus minorities" to NH because I said 1.5% bettyellen Feb 2016 #124

You were jjust stating facts lunasun Feb 2016 #154

Yep. That's the thing we've all been noticing. They don't give a damn until it's time to worship Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #230

Let's clarify, some of you have screamed why Sanders will not reach PoC nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #137

Not relevant if all PoC joined in this context what was relevant was that PoC have been speeaking uponit7771 Feb 2016 #140

Sorry it is so relevant nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #141

That is so dismissive. Maybe you/ we don't understand it but that doesn't mean it's nonsense. JudyM Feb 2016 #23

Then explain it AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #31

You're not listening to the abundant answers. There's no "secret." Hekate Feb 2016 #163

Then what is it AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #199

You need to stop posting. You just lost 10k more AA votes for Sanders. brush Feb 2016 #36

Gasp! The horror! AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #64

You use the term "idiotic nonsense" and wonder why people are offended? brush Feb 2016 #68

Yeah, cool story bro AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #73

Ahhh, asking insensitive, insulting questions that you don't seem to even know are insulting brush Feb 2016 #74

Like "why vote for Hillary?" AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #79

and he is one of thousands doing it- despite Sanders begging them to stop. bettyellen Feb 2016 #164

Oh Please. RobinA Feb 2016 #130

Guess you weren't here for the poster who said that POC who were Clinton supporters . . . brush Feb 2016 #138

And some of us had Clinton supporters nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #143

Actually that Stockhom OP addressed LGBT and African Americans, by name and not modified by Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #155

There was no intent to leave out the LGBT shade, it was for comparison to another odious OP brush Feb 2016 #165

It defies *your* reason. Other people may have different risk assessments. winter is coming Feb 2016 #57

Thanks for a well reasoned answer AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #65

Many POC who support HRC have been making this exact argument which has fallen on deaf ears. Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #228

There are valid reasons why African American and other Democratic voters are not supporting Sanders Gothmog Feb 2016 #192

They can say why they hate Bernie Sanders, but not what it is they see in Clinton AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #198

It's run its course RobertEarl Feb 2016 #4

Right on NowSam Feb 2016 #10

+10,000 nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #13

Her Bill Clinton coattails will only take her so far. nt Bonobo Feb 2016 #11

Those coattails will only take her downward. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #14

Minorities were hesitant to back Obama at first. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #15

No, we didn't know him at first but that didn't take long... he came to talk to us... then it was uponit7771 Feb 2016 #20

He's going to the Black Town Hall Forum in Minneapolis. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #28

Because some folks are truly afraid nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #18

Don't Forget Those RobinA Feb 2016 #132

Yeah both of those years saw two perfectly good outsiders nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #135

Sanders lost IA PoC by 25% after spending 3 months campaigning there, he might be reaching out uponit7771 Feb 2016 #19

Sanders just managed to get 48% of POC in New Hampshire, John Poet Feb 2016 #30

LOL. What, 48% of 100? brush Feb 2016 #39

The POC turnout was reportedly seven percent of the Democratic primary, John Poet Feb 2016 #69

Just how many PoC do you think are in IA? (nt) jeff47 Feb 2016 #127

Iowa is likely more conservative and religious, even in AA community. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #34

As a minority, I will answer this artislife Feb 2016 #37

Excellent and perceptive post, artislife. brush Feb 2016 #41

I respect your opinion and it is a good post but I just haven't seen that. Live and Learn Feb 2016 #46

I read it multiple times on this site artislife Feb 2016 #53

I don't count this site since half the people pretending to be people of color on here are not. Live and Learn Feb 2016 #56

I trust that poster but I was surprised to find how many artislife Feb 2016 #59

Let's do it. We have to. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #61

if amborin Feb 2016 #151

I don't think she will win the GE. nt artislife Feb 2016 #237

respectfully..... grasswire Feb 2016 #47

Bernie voted for that 1994 crime bill, by the way. nt ecstatic Feb 2016 #54

That had a clause to protect women against violence artislife Feb 2016 #62

I am a Bernie supporter artislife Feb 2016 #58

That is another huge issue for me. The Prison Industrial Revolution must be stopped Live and Learn Feb 2016 #60

. bravenak Feb 2016 #55

White people can afford to "make a point" firebrand80 Feb 2016 #90

" Maybe Bernie can win, but I'm not inclined to roll the dice." basselope Feb 2016 #99

GE polls mean nothing nt firebrand80 Feb 2016 #100

How else do you judge a candidates viability? basselope Feb 2016 #105

The way you fail to listen to the answers being given is a perfect illustration.... Hekate Feb 2016 #166

The failure of people to read the OP is a better one. basselope Feb 2016 #169

An awful it of people are trying to tell you something, but you don't like their answers. Hekate Feb 2016 #183

No, an awful lot of people misread the OP and answered their own question. basselope Feb 2016 #187

Thank you so much. They will not listen. Only if one worships Sanders. That's it. Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #229

Very well said! n/t Admiral Loinpresser Feb 2016 #92

I don't remotely understand your answer.. basselope Feb 2016 #98

I don't think you will get it. artislife Feb 2016 #112

Seems like what too many people are doing. basselope Feb 2016 #117

Read NanceGregg's explanation artislife Feb 2016 #119

You didn't read the OP very carefully, did you? basselope Feb 2016 #120

Maybe I did read it differently artislife Feb 2016 #122

This is exactly the problem basselope Feb 2016 #123

Sometimes these discussions can make you tired all over.... Stellar Feb 2016 #142

I swear that is true artislife Feb 2016 #200

Spawning, lmao! Stellar Feb 2016 #208

Good post. one_voice Feb 2016 #116

Why thank you for the compliment. And thank you for your well-reasoned, brilliant answer. :) Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #232

Wrong. It's not just name recognition. It's her relationships. ecstatic Feb 2016 #40

It is about relationships artislife Feb 2016 #63

What track record? AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #66

A lot of people are voting for Hillary Clinton. lovemydog Feb 2016 #67

I am not a person of color, Blue_In_AK Feb 2016 #76

I think we are already seeing a backlash to that meme from women and people of color. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #78

It always comes down to the same argument ... NanceGreggs Feb 2016 #83

One poster below just posted that "we" don't get it... like... WOW!!!! uponit7771 Feb 2016 #111

I have to agree with you on this. nt artislife Feb 2016 #115

How many voters, whether white or AA/POC, currently have well-reasoned and well-informed judgments Vattel Feb 2016 #186

... NanceGreggs Feb 2016 #193

Most voters are low-info. And Bernie's support is growing as people come to Vattel Feb 2016 #202

The fact Clinton supporters don't insult people of color BainsBane Feb 2016 #84

All of this. bravenak Feb 2016 #85

I've gotten the same thing on Twitter BainsBane Feb 2016 #125

It's okay, there's a re-education camp where you can learn more. lovemydog Feb 2016 #180

Lol, I know bravenak Feb 2016 #181

I'm afraid classes would be like this: lovemydog Feb 2016 #184

I'm leaning towards supporting Sanders (O'Malley supporter originally) but I agree 100%. PragmaticLiberal Feb 2016 #114

+10000000 betsuni Feb 2016 #162

WOW!!! WOW!!! WOW!!! This should be its own OP. Amazingly genius!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #233

It's just inertia, they will come around as Bernie gets the charm offensive going. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #88

I'm for Bernie but lots of my AA aren't and I don't try to tell them they don't get it or don't JRug Feb 2016 #89

This is one part I don't get... TCJ70 Feb 2016 #91

There is no difference. Vattel Feb 2016 #203

excellent comments! nt m-lekktor Feb 2016 #93

Don't you think this post is offensive?!!?!? "THE...don't get it"!!?!? wow... keep it classy right?! uponit7771 Feb 2016 #110

There are good reasons why Sanders is not appealing to African American and other voters Gothmog Feb 2016 #95

This is a HUGE reason, too! Keep posting this passage as much as you can. Bash my president, Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #234

Hillary made this point very effectively in the debate tonight Gothmog Feb 2016 #238

Yeah, I saw. Fully appreciated that. Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #239

I'm curious as to what her proposals actually are to help PoC. Haven't seen them. nt. polly7 Feb 2016 #96

Clinton began her career on the national stage as First Lady... Orsino Feb 2016 #97

She had quite a full life BEFORE she was FLOTUS. She got her law degree. She worked for... Hekate Feb 2016 #176

Clinton is NOT nothing. Orsino Feb 2016 #206

It sounds arrogant and condescending. earthside Feb 2016 #106

I have been told it is arrogant and condescending of me to even ask this question. basselope Feb 2016 #108

Let's say you go to a party lovemydog Feb 2016 #188

Or that the Clintons have had a long term relationship with PoC on a personal level?! Visiting churc uponit7771 Feb 2016 #109

One primary issue all racial minorities in the US have to deal with every day Zorra Feb 2016 #113

hammer meet nail. BINGO! Hiraeth Feb 2016 #118

did they tell you to "shhhhh" and "just listen" yet? Bread and Circus Feb 2016 #131

Obama had a problem with LGBT the same way Bernie does with PoC. ieoeja Feb 2016 #133

No "secret sauce" just 25 years supporting the African American community. DCBob Feb 2016 #145

Not really. basselope Feb 2016 #148

thats an article, the polls say different uponit7771 Feb 2016 #149

Apparently Bernie needs to spit on or punch one of his white constituents as a show of solidarity? JPnoodleman Feb 2016 #150

lol.... I'm going to go to hell for laughing at this but I can't get the image out of my head uponit7771 Feb 2016 #153

Why don't POC like Bernie and Bernie supporters? This comment is an example of why. As is the OP. Squinch Feb 2016 #167

.... so you won't say what it is? But it exists out there in the ether I guess... JPnoodleman Feb 2016 #168

It's been discussed here on DU ad nauseam. I am exhausted by how many times people Squinch Feb 2016 #173

' "name recognition" idiocy ' basselope Feb 2016 #194

Do you listen to what the people of color here say at all? Squinch Feb 2016 #213

Just stop with the nonsense.... basselope Feb 2016 #218

You entered a conversation about the idea that POC are not voting for Bernie Squinch Feb 2016 #219

Incorrect basselope Feb 2016 #220

Oh but they DO like Bernie Sanders senz Feb 2016 #201

Not sure where you are getting that idea, but have fun with it. Squinch Feb 2016 #214

From votes actually cast! basselope Feb 2016 #221

ABSO-FUCKING-LUTE-LY!!!!!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #235

lol! lovemydog Feb 2016 #185

oh well lunasun Feb 2016 #157

Critique of the economy is necessary, but it LEAVES OUT the fact that it is ONLY ONE WAY... Hekate Feb 2016 #161

+1 betsuni Feb 2016 #174

Speaking about concerns is one thing. basselope Feb 2016 #195

Continuing education, sharing personal experience Jackilope Feb 2016 #171

This is really lovely. I don't share your love for Bernie, but I think I can learn things from you. Squinch Feb 2016 #177

I'm guessing someone is starved for attention. Nt HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #175

Some how... MrWendel Feb 2016 #178

Where in the OP is there anything about whitesplaining? basselope Feb 2016 #189

Ain't no white vs black here. romanic Feb 2016 #204

What is PoC? LAS14 Feb 2016 #179

PoC is person (or people) of color. lovemydog Feb 2016 #182

Thank you! nt LAS14 Feb 2016 #217

Wow...just wow Hydra Feb 2016 #197