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Atheists & Agnostics
In reply to the discussion: If God knows everything, then we do not have free will. Why does he create people [View all]onager
(9,356 posts)44. I thought some Sophisticated Theology might help.
As I remember, all the Great Church Fathers used a lot of weasel-words and flummery when they talked about Heaven.
Vaguely remembered Augustine describing it as a place where the saved just "enjoyed the presence of God for eternity." Which sounds a lot like an eternal Baptist Sunday School to me. Which is about as appealing as an eternal skin rash.
Didn't find that, but here's one short sample of Augustine describing Paradise. The link is to his entire "Confessions." This is from Book Twelve, Chapter IX. It should clear up any questions about Heaven...chortle...:
9. And therefore the Spirit, the Teacher of thy servant,[470] when he mentions that "in the beginning thou madest heaven and earth," says nothing about times and is silent as to the days. For, clearly, that heaven of heavens which thou didst create in the beginning is in some way an intellectual creature, although in no way coeternal with thee, O Trinity.
Yet it is nonetheless a partaker in thy eternity. Because of the sweetness of its most happy contemplation of thee, it is greatly restrained in its own mutability and cleaves to thee without any lapse from the time in which it was created, surpassing all the rolling change of time. But this shapelessness -- this earth invisible and unformed -- was not numbered among the days itself. For where there is no shape or order there is nothing that either comes or goes, and where this does not occur there certainly are no days, nor any vicissitude of duration.
Yet it is nonetheless a partaker in thy eternity. Because of the sweetness of its most happy contemplation of thee, it is greatly restrained in its own mutability and cleaves to thee without any lapse from the time in which it was created, surpassing all the rolling change of time. But this shapelessness -- this earth invisible and unformed -- was not numbered among the days itself. For where there is no shape or order there is nothing that either comes or goes, and where this does not occur there certainly are no days, nor any vicissitude of duration.
http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/saints/augcon12.htm
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If God knows everything, then we do not have free will. Why does he create people [View all]
JRLeft
Dec 2015
OP
Why does he create a guessing environment, either pick the right religion or go to hell.
JRLeft
Dec 2015
#6
There's a Grand Plan, ours is not to question, mysterious ways, blah de freakin' blah ...
Arugula Latte
Dec 2015
#7
The unforgivable sin is not believing in God. If you don't believe, you can't ask forgiveness.
CrispyQ
Dec 2015
#79
That's because no one actually reads the bible, and if they fid I believe most would become
JRLeft
Dec 2015
#59
"Mysterious" means "This is nonsense, but I don't want to admit that even to myself." n/t
Binkie The Clown
Dec 2015
#33
Maybe the closest thing to what we've called God is the living part of the Earth
Freelancer
Dec 2015
#32
"As flies to wanton boys are we to th' gods. They kill us for their sport."
Arugula Latte
Dec 2015
#35