Christian Liberals & Progressive People of Faith

sanatanadharma

(4,074 posts)

73. Mind, brain, consciousness, self: are they all the same?

Fri Mar 18, 2022, 01:39 PM

Mar 2022

Mind, brain, consciousness, self: are they all the same?

I agree about the contentious "we" mentioned above in Robert Kurzban' words.
I say our identity as existent-consciousness is self-evident, a-priori, needing no proof.
However, if we investigate the mind-thoughts about what 'I am', apart from 'that I am', there are many confusions.
I am a baby, no I am a child, oops no a young adult, did I say young, I am dead, did I say that?

When the investigation is done, one sees that all 'identity' labels based upon body*, desires, actions, experiences, knowledge, etc. can be discarded or negated yet something is still left. Something that has never been known to be absent and doesn't change (in its nature) over time; unlike the body, the mind, desires, experiences, any of the stuff of our life.

*Trans-gender evidences the ephemeral nature of our most basic identity-factor, the body wrapper.

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Let me begin by stating that it is not my intent to limit or prohibit anyone's privilege to [View all] Atticus Mar 2022 OP

As a mathematician and an atheist, ... old as dirt Mar 2022 #1

My belief is that all have a right to express their faith whether in a diety or overleft Mar 2022 #2

I agree. shrike3 Mar 2022 #40

I'm with you. ShazzieB Mar 2022 #3

No, it does not "clang." Jirel Mar 2022 #4

And you make the same error other atheists have. Proselytization is the urging or encouraging Atticus Mar 2022 #6

Nice bait, LOL. Jirel Mar 2022 #22

Except that I know anti-theists and non-religious who believe the most outrageous things. shrike3 Mar 2022 #41

Quite true. Jirel Mar 2022 #58

Yes. shrike3 Mar 2022 #61

"---atheists don't need to ask it." So, it never occurs to atheists to ask the "What is the Atticus Mar 2022 #43

Some of those questions? Nope. Jirel Mar 2022 #63

I would normally respond with "Bless your heart!" but, I assume you don't believe in Atticus Mar 2022 #65

El cerro del Manzanillo old as dirt Mar 2022 #74

I don't think its the same. LakeArenal Mar 2022 #5

Can you prove God does not exist---or is that simply your belief? nt Atticus Mar 2022 #8

No proof of a negative is necessary, nor is it possible. MineralMan Mar 2022 #9

However you choose to describe it, you choose to believe something which cannot be Atticus Mar 2022 #10

No. You are incorrect. MineralMan Mar 2022 #12

I await your "actual evidence" that God does not exist? nt Atticus Mar 2022 #14

It doesn't work that way. Cartoonist Mar 2022 #16

Again, the other side of the coin: there exists no proof of the non-existence of God. nt Atticus Mar 2022 #17

You can't use a double negative. Cartoonist Mar 2022 #21

Who needs to prove anything? ShazzieB Mar 2022 #42

That's great advice. Cartoonist Mar 2022 #76

Why not? old as dirt Mar 2022 #45

It's allowed in the sense that you can do it. Cartoonist Mar 2022 #55

You can prove it or not...your choice. old as dirt Mar 2022 #60

I'm sure you believe that proves your point. nt Atticus Mar 2022 #69

That is again a false characterization. Jirel Mar 2022 #25

I disagree. old as dirt Mar 2022 #18

How would you prove Hav Mar 2022 #23

No, I think you are actually proving equilibrium. Cartoonist Mar 2022 #24

Proving equilibrium? old as dirt Mar 2022 #29

I'm not sure what you mean by mathematical negative. Cartoonist Mar 2022 #48

It's not a term that logicians use. old as dirt Mar 2022 #51

What link? Cartoonist Mar 2022 #56

The link in the post you were replying to above. old as dirt Mar 2022 #59

I missed it Cartoonist Mar 2022 #67

inability to 'disprove the negative' stopdiggin Mar 2022 #66

It is useful for some... old as dirt Mar 2022 #70

So ... You would agree that stopdiggin Mar 2022 #72

It's a challenge, ... old as dirt Mar 2022 #75

In the absense of evidence, ... old as dirt Mar 2022 #19

Science says god is superfluous for my existence. LakeArenal Mar 2022 #77

No Mind, No Buddha WhiteTara Mar 2022 #20

Atheism is NOT an "alternative belief system." MineralMan Mar 2022 #7

It certainly is an alternative belief. Is your problem with the "system" part? nt Atticus Mar 2022 #11

Again, it is merely a lack of belief. MineralMan Mar 2022 #13

Do you not "believe" that God does not exist? nt Atticus Mar 2022 #15

No. Jirel Mar 2022 #28

I believe that God does not exist. old as dirt Mar 2022 #30

As said before, you are certainly free to believe or "not believe" as you think best. At least, Atticus Mar 2022 #33

I do NOT believe that any deities exist. MineralMan Mar 2022 #49

Who said non-belief was the "equivalent" of belief? Are the terms not simply the Atticus Mar 2022 #57

What scientific evidence exists to prove the existence of... sanatanadharma Mar 2022 #26

I'm as skeptical of your existence as I am of my own. old as dirt Mar 2022 #32

Mind, brain, consciousness, self: are they all the same? sanatanadharma Mar 2022 #73

Trying to isolate and define the individual... old as dirt Mar 2022 #78

I have seldom enjoyed reading and thinking about a post as much as I enjoyed yours. Atticus Mar 2022 #34

God may "exist" cilla4progress Mar 2022 #27

Unlike some here, I have not stated my belief or lack of belief. That is a personal decision Atticus Mar 2022 #31

How can one sensibly talk about the existence of a thing cilla4progress Mar 2022 #36

Ok. nt Atticus Mar 2022 #46

I agree. shrike3 Mar 2022 #39

If people who believe in some sort of deity choose to believe that the lack Chainfire Mar 2022 #35

Exactly! cilla4progress Mar 2022 #37

No offense, but I remember attending a meeting of progressives. shrike3 Mar 2022 #44

Dr. Sagan, who I admire greatly, criticized not the existence of God, but the popular concept of Atticus Mar 2022 #50

My only problem is with people who say I should think/believe as they do. shrike3 Mar 2022 #38

I have never run into an atheist missionary. Chainfire Mar 2022 #47

Who said it was about proselytizing? shrike3 Mar 2022 #54

I mentioned that there would be ancectodal arguments. Chainfire Mar 2022 #68

Funny, I don't feel superior to you at all. shrike3 Mar 2022 #80

Thank you for that. Chainfire Mar 2022 #82

It's more irritation than me taking things personally. shrike3 Mar 2022 #83

Weird claims about the intelligence of other cultures... old as dirt Mar 2022 #53

Isn't there a certain amount of 'disrespect' built in stopdiggin Mar 2022 #52

Civility, yes. shrike3 Mar 2022 #62

Just out of curiosity. old as dirt Mar 2022 #79

Differences in culture is the price we pay... old as dirt Mar 2022 #64

THANKS TO ALL FOR THEIR CIVIL RESPONSES AND SOME VERY GOOD Atticus Mar 2022 #71

Stephen Colbert once said religion is based on emotion. shrike3 Mar 2022 #81

What would it take... old as dirt Mar 2022 #86

Neither atheist nor theist am I sanatanadharma Mar 2022 #84

Rainbow River In Colombia Is The Most Beautiful In The World old as dirt Mar 2022 #85