Religion

Voltaire2

(14,708 posts)

49. Just pointing out that the serene passivity of 12 step programs is an evidential failure

Reply to marylandblue (Reply #46)

Sun Apr 7, 2019, 01:20 PM

Apr 2019

with respect to actually treating addiction.

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Can faith alone ever be sufficient? [View all] Soph0571 Apr 2019 OP

Many stories have been told and written. MineralMan Apr 2019 #1

Faith is a special device for justifying biased decisions. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #2

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. MineralMan Apr 2019 #3

Faith does not "walk by ... sight" or visible evidence. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #12

How does a group of blind people describe an elephant? MineralMan Apr 2019 #15

While I get the point it's trying to make Lordquinton Apr 2019 #19

P. T. Barnum had something to say about that. nt tblue37 Apr 2019 #78

He also had a thing or two to say about Elephants as well Lordquinton Apr 2019 #80

in general, we are not rational creatures. So no reasoned argument penetrates faith. marylandblue Apr 2019 #4

Accept all the crimes of religion? Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #13

Who said anything about accepting crimes? marylandblue Apr 2019 #14

Yes it does. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #16

Now there's a rational answer. marylandblue Apr 2019 #17

Yes it is. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #20

YEEESSSS!!!! uriel1972 Apr 2019 #21

People are really confused about what acceptance means and what it does. marylandblue Apr 2019 #29

Radical acceptance is not fatalism, but accepting what's in front of you. marylandblue Apr 2019 #23

As an historian and educator, I disagree. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #26

Do all historians and educators agree with you? marylandblue Apr 2019 #28

Most can distinguish between a logical versus a very emotional argument. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #30

Do the sociologists assume people always act rationally marylandblue Apr 2019 #32

We can predict situations where people will react emotionally Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #34

How are defining "reacting emotionally" and "reacting emotionally" marylandblue Apr 2019 #43

We know about 1) animal instincts. say. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #47

None of that comes close to answering my question. marylandblue Apr 2019 #48

Correct grammar in your question? Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #50

Oh I see. Sorry about that. Here marylandblue Apr 2019 #51

I'm using say, the five sources cited above with others Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #53

We are creatures who can reason, and we can learn to do it better. marylandblue Apr 2019 #55

Need for money, jobs, food, is both emotional and rational Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #56

A lot of the needs we call rational are based in our organic nature or social matrix. marylandblue Apr 2019 #61

Hunger is instinctual. But on analysis, we see it is rational too. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #64

You are confusing the experience that actually causes us to eat marylandblue Apr 2019 #67

Jefferson made a mistake. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #68

We seem to be having a disconnect and I don't know why marylandblue Apr 2019 #72

To accept what can't be changed... uriel1972 Apr 2019 #31

That's not how I was taught about acceptance. I was taught marylandblue Apr 2019 #33

The Serenity Prayer is religious in origin Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #35

Shoot the messenger's mother? marylandblue Apr 2019 #42

Apparently it means substituting cigarettes donuts and bad coffee for alcohol, Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #44

You just don't like the religious origin and formulation, so I'll give you a non-religious one. marylandblue Apr 2019 #46

Just pointing out that the serene passivity of 12 step programs is an evidential failure Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #49

AA popularized the Serenity Prayer, but they didn't write it marylandblue Apr 2019 #52

So if there will always be evil in the world, why resist it? Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #57

We are always solving the problems that are in front of us. marylandblue Apr 2019 #60

It's probably just semantics whether you call suffering evil. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #65

I don't know why the "courage to change the things I can" is being missed marylandblue Apr 2019 #66

The rub is, many think many things can't be fixed, that are fixable. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #69

I don't interpret prayers that way and I don't know anybody who does. marylandblue Apr 2019 #71

Google "Locus of Control" safeinOhio Apr 2019 #5

You do know that the concept edhopper Apr 2019 #6

I forgot that from my Systems of Psychology in college. safeinOhio Apr 2019 #7

Yeah edhopper Apr 2019 #8

How do Calvinist fit in safeinOhio Apr 2019 #9

I am not well versed in edhopper Apr 2019 #10

Only the elect can understand unconditionally. MineralMan Apr 2019 #11

If only Christians understood their own teachings! Karadeniz Apr 2019 #18

Ummmm... yeah. uriel1972 Apr 2019 #22

I'm pretty sure every Christian Mariana Apr 2019 #24

Yep. They usually just gloss over what they don't understand. Too bad. The parables are fabulous! Karadeniz Apr 2019 #75

Let's acknowledge Soph's great point Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #25

that answer is in james 2 chapter 26 rampartc Apr 2019 #27

If only believers actually read, and believed Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #36

One of the least-quoted verses in the New Testament. MineralMan Apr 2019 #37

this business if "faith" vs "works" goes back to martin luthor rampartc Apr 2019 #38

It goes deeper too Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #39

you may be right rampartc Apr 2019 #40

It's the origin of the prosperity thing. But there's more Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #41

Yes it does. Jim__ Apr 2019 #45

No.Specially if it is blind faith. democratisphere Apr 2019 #54

Conclusion: faith alone is never enough. We need reason, science, even more. Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #58

Never. trotsky Apr 2019 #59

The Marxist have a thing called "praxis." marylandblue Apr 2019 #63

No. NeoGreen Apr 2019 #62

An answer to Guil, and the alleged inevitability of faith, belief, even for rationalists Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #70

Gil relies heavily on imprecise meanings of words without providing definitions marylandblue Apr 2019 #73

So we should not faithfully OR passively acquiesce to Religion Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #74

Faith is a shield Lithos Apr 2019 #76

If you think the "shield" is true, still, Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #81

Faith alone is always supposed to be sufficient. bitterross Apr 2019 #77

"Faith" means religions want unquestioning obedience Bretton Garcia Apr 2019 #79