Religion

gtar100

(4,192 posts)

9. If one's religion cannot stand up to criticism, what good is it.

Sat Mar 23, 2019, 12:21 PM

Mar 2019

Especially if there be truth in the criticism. After all, isn't one of the purposes of religion to align one's self with the will of God, or truth? If anybody requires others to believe the same things as they do to the point of violence if they don't, well that's just revealing how little faith they have in what they say they believe in. The matter isn't about the truth then, it's about power and control.

So yes, all religions should be tolerant of blasphemy. Privately, hearing someone trash-talk your personal beliefs will likely ruin friendships if someone wants to be a jerk about it. But publicly, the matter should be settled through discussions and "good works" (as in, don't just tell me...show me), not violence, manipulation or intimidation. That goes for parties on all sides. Not that I'm holding my breath for everyone to get along. It's not desire for truth that motivates hate but fear of losing something we hold onto for stability.

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Should the religious learn to accept blasphemy? [View all] Soph0571 Mar 2019 OP

Hell yeah! notdarkyet Mar 2019 #1

Authoritarians safeinOhio Mar 2019 #2

They should, but won't. Religious beliefs are fragile, MineralMan Mar 2019 #3

Religion should not have the powers of the state exboyfil Mar 2019 #4

Thats how privilege works Major Nikon Mar 2019 #5

Yeah, if Jesus is all powerful, let Jesus punish the blasphemers. 3Hotdogs Mar 2019 #6

People aren't rational, especially when it comes to religion. marylandblue Mar 2019 #7

One can make rational arguemnts for many things, guillaumeb Mar 2019 #11

Which is why rational arguments can be blasphemy. marylandblue Mar 2019 #17

Rationality has nothing to do with deliberate incitment. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #23

Cartoons are deliberate incitement? Since when? marylandblue Mar 2019 #24

The intent waas to incite. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #38

"incite" and "provoke" are loaded words marylandblue Mar 2019 #50

Geller, in my opinion, is a professional Islamophobe. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #52

If you can be incited to violence with a blasphemous cartoon marylandblue Mar 2019 #59

Most people are not incited to violence. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #70

I think you are trying to prevent criticism of religion marylandblue Mar 2019 #74

You have the right to that opinion. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #83

You really do use motte-and-bailey a lot. Also tokenism. And condescension. marylandblue Mar 2019 #88

Impressive was your remote analysis. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #90

More condescension with a side of sarcasm? marylandblue Mar 2019 #92

My essential point is that most people do not resort to violence. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #94

Well at least that's straight forward and not a dodge, but it's still very weak marylandblue Mar 2019 #96

Such leading questions are a part of the problem. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #97

I've been participating in the Religion Group for over a year marylandblue Mar 2019 #100

Do you think Andres Serrano is a professional Christianophobe? trotsky Mar 2019 #68

Serrano's motivation, which he expressed publicly, guillaumeb Mar 2019 #71

But people were offended. trotsky Mar 2019 #72

Another claim. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #82

Nobody ever specifically admitting to be part of a choir, marylandblue Mar 2019 #89

Metaphor. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #91

Perhaps it was a metaphor too. marylandblue Mar 2019 #93

A metaphor for? guillaumeb Mar 2019 #95

Your tendency to hide behind a fog of words even when asked marylandblue Mar 2019 #98

My interactions with some here are influenced by how I have seen them act with other theists here. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #99

I realize a lot happened here before I showed up. marylandblue Mar 2019 #104

If theists want to have a different kind of conversation Mariana Mar 2019 #105

A repeat of the "leave the religion group" meme. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #108

I suggested no such thing, Gil. Mariana Mar 2019 #111

You did say: guillaumeb Mar 2019 #113

That's a statement of fact, Gil. Mariana Mar 2019 #117

Thanks for confirming that you do exactly this: trotsky Mar 2019 #107

Another claim. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #109

A claim supported by this statement of yours: trotsky Mar 2019 #112

Simply untrue. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #114

I am perfectly content to let readers be the judge. trotsky Mar 2019 #115

As am I. eom guillaumeb Mar 2019 #116

You said, and I fucking quote: trotsky Mar 2019 #106

Do you really trust your own lying eyes? Lordquinton Mar 2019 #118

Most of them avoid the other groups under Religion & Spirituality, too. Mariana Mar 2019 #119

You're on to something Lordquinton Mar 2019 #120

Why it's almost as if the goal isn't "respectful discussion"... trotsky Mar 2019 #123

His silence on this point confirms his religious extremism. trotsky Mar 2019 #121

It's very telling Lordquinton Mar 2019 #122

Do you think people should be arrested for drawing a cartoon of Mohammed? trotsky Mar 2019 #25

Do you think people should be arrested for drawing a cartoon of Mohammed? trotsky Mar 2019 #32

And still no answer. MineralMan Mar 2019 #61

He claimed that drawing Mohammed was incitement. Which is a crime. trotsky Mar 2019 #66

Wow! Should I expect a visit from the Police, then, MineralMan Mar 2019 #67

No police. Mariana Mar 2019 #81

Oh, thank goodness! MineralMan Mar 2019 #85

... Mariana Mar 2019 #87

It's another form of faux outrage.... LakeArenal Mar 2019 #8

If one's religion cannot stand up to criticism, what good is it. gtar100 Mar 2019 #9

Should all people learn to accept being trested with contempt? guillaumeb Mar 2019 #10

Poor reframing Lordquinton Mar 2019 #13

Calling an idea stupid isn't the same as calling the person who holds that idea stupid Major Nikon Mar 2019 #16

Blasphemy is about the deity in question Lordquinton Mar 2019 #22

Sure, Gil. Blasphemy is no different than misogyny Major Nikon Mar 2019 #14

What other ideas deserve special protection from criticism, gil? trotsky Mar 2019 #21

... Major Nikon Mar 2019 #30

Some religion somewhere will view virtually anything as blasphemy. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2019 #12

Also one religion's doctrine is another's blasphemy. marylandblue Mar 2019 #15

I still can't get over the uproar when Ratzinger said his was the one true religion. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2019 #18

Liberal Catholics have been wishy-washy on this since Vatican II marylandblue Mar 2019 #19

Put another way, he took his religion seriously so he had to blaspheme somebody else's. Pope George Ringo II Mar 2019 #20

Courtesy zipplewrath Mar 2019 #26

'Courtesy' said the priest as he lit the pyre. (nt) NeoGreen Mar 2019 #27

Is it rude to say that supply-side economics is wrong? n/t trotsky Mar 2019 #28

It is rude zipplewrath Mar 2019 #29

But that's not what is being complained about. trotsky Mar 2019 #31

Blasphemy zipplewrath Mar 2019 #33

Blasphemy doesn't insult a person. trotsky Mar 2019 #34

Actually, some of it does zipplewrath Mar 2019 #35

That is nowhere to be found in the definition. trotsky Mar 2019 #36

Blasphemy can insult a person zipplewrath Mar 2019 #39

That's not blasphemy though. trotsky Mar 2019 #41

Yes it is zipplewrath Mar 2019 #44

Blasphemy is the act of insulting a diety. trotsky Mar 2019 #46

The blasphemy is what is taken as the insult zipplewrath Mar 2019 #49

Provide your definition, or else this exchange is over. trotsky Mar 2019 #53

That was always my point zipplewrath Mar 2019 #55

But "CAUSING" insult is not blasphemy. trotsky Mar 2019 #57

Is it reasonable for you to be insulted by that? Mariana Mar 2019 #54

This is what happens when the discussion isn't intended to provide clarity or dialog. trotsky Mar 2019 #58

Yes zipplewrath Mar 2019 #62

But what if the evidence, such as it is, supports the blasphemer? Mariana Mar 2019 #64

Just because zipplewrath Mar 2019 #65

Now you're conflating the concepts again. trotsky Mar 2019 #69

What does blasphemy have to do with blue light and "alternative medicines"? Mariana Mar 2019 #73

They would take offense. They would feel insulted. Hell, they would BE insulted. Iggo Mar 2019 #76

I don't treat people of faith with contempt. I treat their faith with contempt. (n/t) Iggo Mar 2019 #37

You realize zipplewrath Mar 2019 #40

Then we had better stop criticizing the Westboro Baptist bigots. trotsky Mar 2019 #42

That's sorta the question zipplewrath Mar 2019 #43

But their actions are also their faith put into reality. trotsky Mar 2019 #45

Quite the opposite zipplewrath Mar 2019 #47

Then you don't understand the Westboro Baptist Church. trotsky Mar 2019 #48

I don't accept any "validity" zipplewrath Mar 2019 #51

I'm sorry, I cannot respect the bigotry of the Westboro Baptist Church. trotsky Mar 2019 #56

Why do I need to respect your beliefs? Cuthbert Allgood Mar 2019 #60

Consider it a recommendation, not a requirement marylandblue Mar 2019 #63

Expressing belief is an action Major Nikon Mar 2019 #77

Beliefs may cause actions, but they are still beliefs, not actions. marylandblue Mar 2019 #78

If you keep your belief to yourself you don't risk criticism. Major Nikon Mar 2019 #79

You can use whatever terms you want. marylandblue Mar 2019 #80

... Major Nikon Mar 2019 #84

Umm, isn't that what I said? marylandblue Mar 2019 #86

Even so. Iggo Mar 2019 #75

Blasphemy should be treated like any other case of defamation. The offended deity must file suit, LongtimeAZDem Mar 2019 #101

GD right. democratisphere Mar 2019 #102

That train left the station. onecaliberal Mar 2019 #103

'Yes' - since EVERY religion is a blasphemy in-of-itself... NeoGreen Mar 2019 #110