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Religion

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MineralMan

(147,574 posts)
Tue Jan 15, 2019, 12:02 PM Jan 2019

Of course religion is connected to tribalism. [View all]

That's where it started. Humans tend to naturally form groups, starting with the family group and expanding as needed to survive. We don't do well as solo creatures, really.

As groups grow larger, though, some sort of order is needed to keep the group working together toward common goals. That order can be provided by a powerful chieftain who makes rules for however many people he can control. It's a precarious job, though, being chieftain of a tribe. Often, force is required to enforce whatever rules the chieftain makes, and surrounding oneself with strongmen often leads to one of them deciding that he should be the chieftain.

Religion can serve a similar purpose. Human individuals have lots of questions. It's our nature. We wonder about things. So, in most groups the size of a tribe, there's typically a clever person who is good at telling stories. Not only are stories entertaining, they can be used to explain stuff that isn't immediately obvious. So, a clever story-teller gains a different sort of power within a tribe. He or she explains the sunrise and the moon and the stars and all that stuff, through imaginative stories.

Smart chieftains see the effect of the story-teller and reward him or her for telling stories about why the rules are what the rules are. A bit of the choice parts of whatever animal is on the fire can go a long way toward getting the good stories told that help the chieftain maintain his position without having to kill too many of the tribe.

Then there are gods. They're also very useful. Typically, in basic cultures, there are lots of them. One for each inexplicable thing that needs explaining. The story-teller can easily come up with tales about those gods and how they came to empower whatever things need empowering. Gods for the sky, the sun, the moon, that pesky volcano over there, and the lion that ate your grandmother. It's all explained by powerful gods that have different priorities sometimes than the tribe has.

Sometimes a god can be credited with the power the chieftain needs, too. That's very helpful to the chieftain, who is often beset by jealousies and competition. As always, the story-teller can be counted on to fill in the important details.

And so it goes. As tribes encounter each other, they can have a battle over territory or sit down and combine their numbers, all the better to exploit the local resources. When tribes join together, though, their story-tellers may have different stories. Merging those is an important aspect of assembling a larger tribe. Often, a simplification of religion can help. Anyhow, some groups succeed and others don't. It depends.

In all cases, though, the religions developed by the story-tellers must reflect the general attitudes of the tribes and, of course, their chieftains. In larger groups, one chieftain generally ends up on the top of the heap, so there is some direction and one set of rules to follow. The wise and clever story-teller handles getting this across to the group.

And that's the essential story of religion. Gods are created by story-tellers to suit the needs of a particular group, its chieftain, and the surrounding natural environment. Over time, those things all change. New groups are enveloped by old groups, populations grow and shrink, and territories expand or diminish. The gods adapt, as they must, through new stories that derive from old stories.

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Lots of things are connected to tribalism. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #1
Yes. Only religions can span those time periods. MineralMan Jan 2019 #2
Philosophy, art and science can span those time periods marylandblue Jan 2019 #4
As academic interests, yes. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #10
That's only because you don't live in my neighborhood 😀 marylandblue Jan 2019 #18
Sounds dangerous. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #20
All three are part of the story-telling part of tribalism, really. MineralMan Jan 2019 #19
Politics is "war by other means," that is marylandblue Jan 2019 #5
It's supposed to be, at least. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #13
The basic framework I described in the OP MineralMan Jan 2019 #22
Sounds like you've never been to a Yankees game Major Nikon Jan 2019 #6
More than a few, actually. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #9
Patriotism is tribalism. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #24
Women. littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #25
By both women *and* minorities. nt TwistOneUp Jan 2019 #28
Thank you for the referral. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #30
Yes. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #31
And what replaces it? guillaumeb Jan 2019 #33
Nonsensical question. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #44
Patriotism does not always lead to war. marylandblue Jan 2019 #32
They also provided banking services for the Nazis. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #34
Like I said, their patriotism did not lead to war. marylandblue Jan 2019 #35
True. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #39
This is just a case of special pleading, marylandblue Jan 2019 #42
No, this is a case of every group approaching things as they feel best. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #45
You said "And patriotism has always led to war." marylandblue Jan 2019 #46
Agreed that the word "generally" instead of "always" would be better. eom guillaumeb Jan 2019 #47
I think that is more important than it may seem marylandblue Jan 2019 #48
An excellent point, and I agree. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #49
Religion tends to support a patriarchal family structure marylandblue Jan 2019 #52
Less prevalent? guillaumeb Jan 2019 #53
Does the government say wives must submit to their husbands? marylandblue Jan 2019 #54
Society does, in many cases. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #55
Yes, society has long been patriarchal, but we've improved. marylandblue Jan 2019 #56
Yes, we have, and yes, some do. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #57
Well not in my family, and I'm sure not in yours marylandblue Jan 2019 #58
Honest assessments of your country edhopper Jan 2019 #37
Exactly. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #50
For a certain segment of the population, yes edhopper Jan 2019 #51
I agree generally, but you left out one powerful motivator cilla4progress Jan 2019 #3
Early tribal humans feared pretty much everything. MineralMan Jan 2019 #7
Cool.... cilla4progress Jan 2019 #8
It's way complicated now. The United States has about MineralMan Jan 2019 #12
Modern people are afraid of pretty much everything, too. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #15
We humans survive because we're fearful, I think. MineralMan Jan 2019 #16
I think it's a mixed bag. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #21
If I were still just 50 years old, I'd be working on books MineralMan Jan 2019 #23
Yes, it's possible civilization will collapse, but I think our species will survive it. marylandblue Jan 2019 #29
Except that we may have ruined MineralMan Jan 2019 #36
The Old Testament is all about tribes. MineralMan Jan 2019 #11
The problem is tribalism married to politics Major Nikon Jan 2019 #14
Yes. Also, we're all part of multiple tribes, often with conflicting rules. MineralMan Jan 2019 #17
Thanks for the post, MineralMan. littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #26
Oh Yeah? Well, My god can beat up Your god. TwistOneUp Jan 2019 #27
If we agree that religion is just another edhopper Jan 2019 #38
Yep. Iggo Jan 2019 #40
Yes. It's all derived from storytelling within tribal cultures. MineralMan Jan 2019 #41
So it seems to me, but I'm an atheist, so it would, I suppose. MineralMan Jan 2019 #43
Interesting posit Mineral Man. The connection as I see it between religion and tribalism c-rational Jan 2019 #59
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