Religion

Dream Girl

(5,111 posts)

61. You have a narrow view of religion. I believe in a higher power and I'm relaxing in bed this

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 02:44 PM

Jan 2019

Bright Sunday morning. No Bible study or worship for me. I do meditate though. I don’t worship Mr. Science either. I believe that God is unknowable to us while we are in human form. I believe we have a should and that soul is God’s presence in us. Even as a child Christianity made absolutely no sense to me and for most of my 20s, I considered myself an “atheist”. But I came to the realization/belief that atheism was not tenable for me either. I fall into the “spiritual” but not religious” camp. A few hundred years of scientific theory does not explain consciousness, human existence or the meaning of life. We humans haven’t been around very long and we certainly don’t know all there is to know. In some ways I think of atheism as the height of human arrogance. Our understanding is miniscule. Mr. Science doesn’t even understand human consciousness.

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I have nothing against people who don't believe in spirituality, but people who proselytize non- [View all] highplainsdem Jan 2019 OP

Non-believers don't proselytize - it's not a religion... KCDebbie Jan 2019 #1

Really? See this link: highplainsdem Jan 2019 #3

Richard Dawkins does not post on DU. MineralMan Jan 2019 #4

????? I don't recall suggesting that Dawkins ever posted here. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #8

Atheism is not a belief system PJMcK Jan 2019 #91

Actually, it is zipplewrath Jan 2019 #182

Boy, that is backwards thinking! PJMcK Jan 2019 #185

"One can't prove..." zipplewrath Jan 2019 #186

Atheism is not a belief. It is simply non-belief in a particular thing. MineralMan Jan 2019 #189

"I don't believe..." zipplewrath Jan 2019 #190

No, zipplewrath, I do not believe that any deities exist at all. MineralMan Jan 2019 #191

If that were so zipplewrath Jan 2019 #197

.. MineralMan Jan 2019 #198

Nonsense; one can lack an affirmative belief while still understanding the concept. I know what LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #204

Right zipplewrath Jan 2019 #206

As a result of the lack of evidence. We're back to Russell's Teapot LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #209

Well, outside of faith zipplewrath Jan 2019 #218

Conclusion in the absence of proof, is not belief, but "faith" LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #205

Basically the same thing zipplewrath Jan 2019 #207

No, they are not; this is the problem with arguing with the religious: the definitions keep changing LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #208

Not what I'm doing zipplewrath Jan 2019 #210

Then your conclusion is accurate, but meaningless. /nt LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #211

Not exactly zipplewrath Jan 2019 #212

Again, it's meaningless, since you pick and choose the definition of "believe" at will. /nt LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #214

In an attempt for clarity... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #215

In a great case if irony zipplewrath Jan 2019 #219

Apparently... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #220

Nope, you're completely wrong. trotsky Jan 2019 #237

Nope zipplewrath Jan 2019 #239

Depends on how the god is defined. trotsky Jan 2019 #241

How did I do that? zipplewrath Jan 2019 #242

You admitted that lacking belief in someone's brand new god is not a belief system in itself. trotsky Jan 2019 #243

Well, not what the OP was talking about zipplewrath Jan 2019 #245

But that's not what you originally argued. trotsky Jan 2019 #247

I believe I suggested "most" zipplewrath Jan 2019 #248

Nope, here's what you said in response to the claim "Atheism is not a belief system." trotsky Jan 2019 #249

In the context of the OP zipplewrath Jan 2019 #258

You didn't specify that at all. trotsky Jan 2019 #260

No I didn't zipplewrath Jan 2019 #262

Seems silly when your reply is addressing a specific statement made by another poster... trotsky Jan 2019 #265

Is your disbelief in the tooth fairy a belief system? Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #267

Not really zipplewrath Jan 2019 #268

Can you prove the tooth fairy doesn't exist? trotsky Jan 2019 #298

Roughly speaking zipplewrath Jan 2019 #299

So no, you can't conclusively prove it. trotsky Jan 2019 #300

Um, yes I can zipplewrath Jan 2019 #301

No, you can't. trotsky Jan 2019 #302

No zipplewrath Jan 2019 #303

Aha. There's actually lots of evidence against many gods. trotsky Jan 2019 #304

Nope zipplewrath Jan 2019 #306

So what you're saying is... trotsky Jan 2019 #307

All entities zipplewrath Jan 2019 #308

There's no way to prove one way or another that "no unicorns" exist. trotsky Jan 2019 #309

Actually zipplewrath Jan 2019 #310

No god has ever been seen, photographed, or physical evidence found either. trotsky Jan 2019 #311

No special exemption zipplewrath Jan 2019 #312

Yeah, that's exactly what you are defending. trotsky Jan 2019 #313

No zipplewrath Jan 2019 #314

If the assertion is that God edhopper Jan 2019 #321

Undetectable impact zipplewrath Jan 2019 #324

So the claim of atheists edhopper Jan 2019 #325

fine zipplewrath Jan 2019 #330

My experience edhopper Jan 2019 #331

Honestly, I've never encountered an atheist Mariana Jan 2019 #332

I have met many believers with doubts edhopper Jan 2019 #333

nonacceptance of deities zipplewrath Jan 2019 #334

Do you accept that bigfoot is real edhopper Jan 2019 #335

If you read the thread zipplewrath Jan 2019 #337

Description of deities edhopper Jan 2019 #338

If there is no way to know one way or another, then there is no reason to believe they are real. LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #339

It is not a conclusion Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #277

covered this yesterday zipplewrath Jan 2019 #278

A question PJMcK Jan 2019 #286

Well, belief is the whole thing zipplewrath Jan 2019 #288

Atheists like to say that atheism is not a belief system, because it doesn't fit their self-image Fortinbras Armstrong Jan 2019 #285

That's just absolutely wrong PJMcK Jan 2019 #287

Be careful with that one. He's not honest. trotsky Jan 2019 #294

Good to know PJMcK Jan 2019 #295

If yoiu don't believe in a diety, then YOU prove it. Fortinbras Armstrong Jan 2019 #296

Once again, that's not how science works PJMcK Jan 2019 #297

Then prove that you're not a serial killer. You can't. LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #305

And your quite affirmative claim is "There is no God" Fortinbras Armstrong Jan 2019 #315

I do not claim 'There is no God' uriel1972 Jan 2019 #317

I need not claim; "there is no god"; I simply state that I lack the belief in a god. LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #318

I don't use the word belief edhopper Jan 2019 #323

I usually just say "I don't beilve in god". If they're open to duscission, I can clarify, LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #326

In a general conversation, yes edhopper Jan 2019 #327

Edhopper has a point. Mariana Jan 2019 #329

Sure, but once they do (outside of forum discussions like this) I just write them off. /nt LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #336

Not how scientifi method works edhopper Jan 2019 #322

"There's probably no God. Stop worrying and enjoy your life" Major Nikon Jan 2019 #12

I fainted while clutching my pearls. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #25

See, that is every bit as tiring Mariana Jan 2019 #47

Yeah, a relative whisper of dissent over a system of opposition by the megawatt Major Nikon Jan 2019 #59

It's as tiring as a county government council paying six figures MineralMan Jan 2019 #216

Agree Irishxs Jan 2019 #213

Considering the source... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #21

Yeah man but they like voice their opinions on the Internet. trotsky Jan 2019 #164

Gosh, you're so right...how could anyone even think those aren't... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #165

There's no such proselytizing by non-believers. MineralMan Jan 2019 #2

See reply 3. And proselytizing doesn't refer only to formal religions or organizations. It can highplainsdem Jan 2019 #5

Or proselytizing the Democratic Party? MineralMan Jan 2019 #9

No, I'm not suggesting non-believers shut up. I'm recommending empathy. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #14

"There's probably no God. Stop worrying and enjoy your life" Major Nikon Jan 2019 #17

That's not proselytizing at all. It's just a gentle suggestion. MineralMan Jan 2019 #28

Stop worrying and enjoy your life violetpastille Jan 2019 #63

Probably not a good idea to sell Prada to a migrant worker either Major Nikon Jan 2019 #75

Psst...Over Here...I Have Some GENUINE Pradha bags for sale. MineralMan Jan 2019 #77

We don't disagree. violetpastille Jan 2019 #78

True Major Nikon Jan 2019 #85

When I lived in Penang violetpastille Jan 2019 #132

Possible doesn't mean likely Major Nikon Jan 2019 #134

As Western Europe becomes multi-cultural violetpastille Jan 2019 #140

You think advising people to stop worrying about gods or damnation is "empathy neutral"? muriel_volestrangler Jan 2019 #127

I didn't know. violetpastille Jan 2019 #133

The amusing part is that the their website domain has expired LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #159

Maybe they were raptured and no-one noticed ... (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jan 2019 #183

Amazing how the original bus ad doesn't get anyone's ire here... trotsky Jan 2019 #223

Which, of course, is the problem in a nutshell. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #228

Even when the atheist one says "hey, that guy is probably wrong so don't worry!" trotsky Jan 2019 #232

Persecution, don't you know. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #236

BOTH SIDES!!!!!111eleventyone trotsky Jan 2019 #238

How are you recommending empathy? MineralMan Jan 2019 #19

Empathy? No, no empathy. Sympathy perhaps. bitterross Jan 2019 #131

Or proselytizing for civil rights Major Nikon Jan 2019 #16

Oh, the horror! Racists just hate that, don't they? MineralMan Jan 2019 #20

Sure, and there's lots of other words that can literally refer to the same thing Major Nikon Jan 2019 #15

I used the word for the same reason the writer of this Daily Beast article highplainsdem Jan 2019 #23

I'm not doubting that Major Nikon Jan 2019 #30

So basically we are ok if we just shut up. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #27

I'm glad I found my own path, years ago. However, I still glean from both sides. Siwsan Jan 2019 #6

+1,000,000 highplainsdem Jan 2019 #10

We're glad you did, too. MineralMan Jan 2019 #22

I have read some of your posts! Siwsan Jan 2019 #31

I didn't have to find or choose a path Major Nikon Jan 2019 #32

I did have religious beliefs, as a youngster. But, when I became an adult, I started reasoning MineralMan Jan 2019 #34

So you're saying that anyone with religious beliefs is illogical, childish, a disappointment to you? highplainsdem Jan 2019 #52

No. You're the one saying that I'm saying that. MineralMan Jan 2019 #53

You said very clearly that you threw off religious beliefs when you became an adult and could think highplainsdem Jan 2019 #56

.. MineralMan Jan 2019 #58

???? Not sure what you mean by that. But I wish you understood why your comments that adults who highplainsdem Jan 2019 #65

A frequent assertion. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #200

A theist may be childish or they may not... uriel1972 Jan 2019 #319

The poster is not the only one. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #201

That is not what he said. Mariana Jan 2019 #67

Thanks. I reread the post to which that was the reply. MineralMan Jan 2019 #69

So you're still saying that it's illogical to hold any religious belief, and you're disappointed in highplainsdem Jan 2019 #70

No. I said exactly what I meant. You are adding words to what I said. MineralMan Jan 2019 #72

Your statement made it clear that you believe reasoning, logical adults should throw off religious highplainsdem Jan 2019 #79

.. MineralMan Jan 2019 #80

Is atheism a religion? Didn't know that. Dream Girl Jan 2019 #39

Nope. It can't be. MineralMan Jan 2019 #40

You have a narrow view of religion. I believe in a higher power and I'm relaxing in bed this Dream Girl Jan 2019 #61

I have my own personal view of religion. MineralMan Jan 2019 #64

My views are fairly similar to yours. I went from a childhood in a major religion to agnostic, highplainsdem Jan 2019 #68

"Mr. Science"? Lulzd. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #135

Not really the place of science to explain metaphysical abstract concepts Major Nikon Jan 2019 #144

Bingo! Thank you for your wisdom so beautifully stated. cornball 24 Jan 2019 #139

Atheism is about acceptance. PassingFair Jan 2019 #340

Not a religion, but a belief system. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #62

Not even a system. MineralMan Jan 2019 #66

Whatabout those who proselytize against the proselytizers who proselytize against the proselytizers? Major Nikon Jan 2019 #7

Lost me. Duppers Jan 2019 #11

I don't like being "explained" to anyone. LakeArenal Jan 2019 #13

Especially the newly converted whether from religious to non-religious or non-r to religious. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #18

Non-belief isn't a belief Major Nikon Jan 2019 #24

Those who believe there is no God have a belief system. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #33

I believe I'll have another beer Major Nikon Jan 2019 #37

"and more generally includes" - meaning it does not have to include keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #44

"belief system" requires a set of beliefs at a minimum Major Nikon Jan 2019 #54

Those who don't believe there is any such thing as deities, though, MineralMan Jan 2019 #42

As MJ said: "You were born an atheist. That is the default condition. You did not have a belief syst keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #49

You're funny... MineralMan Jan 2019 #51

How could someone decide to be an atheist? Mariana Jan 2019 #71

" If the answer isn't Yes", (or it is), you have decided. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #73

Does this reasoning apply to everything one believes or disbelieves? Mariana Jan 2019 #83

Your rhetorical questions keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #84

You really should speak for yourself. Mariana Jan 2019 #93

"if I don't believe it's real. " keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #95

Or they can reject belief without believing anything Major Nikon Jan 2019 #117

What other outcomes are there? keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #118

I have already told you and prominently put it in the subject line Major Nikon Jan 2019 #119

Link? keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #121

Link Major Nikon Jan 2019 #124

So you didn't post it after all. OK keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #125

Link? Major Nikon Jan 2019 #128

False dilemma Major Nikon Jan 2019 #113

Kids seem to believe all sorts of things automatically marylandblue Jan 2019 #126

I agree we can decide to question beliefs and examine evidence. Mariana Jan 2019 #138

Did you choose not to believe in leprechauns? Major Nikon Jan 2019 #81

other imagined things? keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #82

Bertrand Russell... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #86

Thanks keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #122

Do you doubt anyone can come up with an infinite number of not real things? Major Nikon Jan 2019 #87

"conflating real things" keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #97

Nor did I mention them. You did. Major Nikon Jan 2019 #100

Link? keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #101

Really? Major Nikon Jan 2019 #102

Funny that they were not real things at the time. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #103

Yes, well evidence does that for ya Major Nikon Jan 2019 #106

OK keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #109

You seem to be saying you disbelieve that people went to the moon Mariana Jan 2019 #89

that anyone 'could go' to the moon keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #94

There "could be" a god. Mariana Jan 2019 #99

You believe that there could be. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #105

Why don't you answer any of my questions? nt. Mariana Jan 2019 #108

Your post 99 was not a question keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #111

"There "could be" a god." keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #116

Sure, there's also people who think the earth is flat Major Nikon Jan 2019 #104

"unfalsifiable claims" keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #107

Neither one of those is an unfalsifiable claim Major Nikon Jan 2019 #110

That was my point. Sorry you missed it. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #112

I've been telling you I've been missing your point all along Major Nikon Jan 2019 #114

You wrote... tonedevil Jan 2019 #136

If you believe you are an atheist, you believe something. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #137

Well sure. MarvinGardens Jan 2019 #141

What makes you think I belive... tonedevil Jan 2019 #152

Do you understand the difference between "innocent" and "not guilty"? LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #129

It shouldn't have to be explained more than once, at any rate. Mariana Jan 2019 #153

That may be true... uriel1972 Jan 2019 #316

Agreed Snackshack Jan 2019 #74

There will always be a label for those on the outside looking in Major Nikon Jan 2019 #76

We could make up words: :Anelvisist" or "Analienist" MineralMan Jan 2019 #92

oooh oooh uriel1972 Jan 2019 #320

Agree. I've seen that in my family, with both outspoken atheists and outspoken evangelicals who've highplainsdem Jan 2019 #26

The worst zipplewrath Jan 2019 #184

I think I'll go engage in my hobby of Not Collecting Stamps. Iggo Jan 2019 #29

Enjoy your hobbies! MineralMan Jan 2019 #35

. Iggo Jan 2019 #36

The nice thing about hobbies like that is that MineralMan Jan 2019 #38

And they're the easiest hobbies to master. Iggo Jan 2019 #43

Yes, indeed. MineralMan Jan 2019 #45

And we don't have to dust the trophies keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #57

But deciding the believer zipplewrath Jan 2019 #199

I make no claim. The believer makes the claim. Iggo Jan 2019 #224

As long as there is no counter claim zipplewrath Jan 2019 #225

I don't have a problem saying that some deity of some sort somewhere may exist. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #233

Well, we would zipplewrath Jan 2019 #235

I'd suggest that if quantum mechanics were easier for most, they'd gravitate that way. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #240

Magical thinking is quite common zipplewrath Jan 2019 #261

I've watched my share of postgame interviews. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #263

Belief in "momentum" zipplewrath Jan 2019 #271

I blame the announcers for that one. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #272

No counterclaim needs to be made. Iggo Jan 2019 #253

I agree 100%... ADX Jan 2019 #41

But Mama, that's where the fun is. Iggo Jan 2019 #46

Yeah, you've got a point there... ADX Jan 2019 #48

Thank you for understanding what I was saying. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #60

Thank you for saying what I was understanding... ADX Jan 2019 #120

It is not tiring to me. That is because I am not religious. You are I suppose so you do not want wasupaloopa Jan 2019 #50

The poster has given one extremely weak example Mariana Jan 2019 #98

I'm not religious. I haven't belonged to any religion since my teens. But I know people who are highplainsdem Jan 2019 #123

If someone believed in a superstition could wasupaloopa Jan 2019 #273

There are just different types of people where religion is concerned - who wudda thunk it? Freelancer Jan 2019 #55

Liberalism by definition it seems at first, can't be dogmatic or militant. Bretton Garcia Jan 2019 #88

Six and a half billion people on this planet, now, beleive in a Supreme Being, a Higher Power or a demosincebirth Jan 2019 #90

And that majority likes to crush the atheist minority. Bretton Garcia Jan 2019 #115

Why does something you don't believe in bother you so much? demosincebirth Jan 2019 #143

And yet many Catholics do impose their views on others Major Nikon Jan 2019 #146

You paint with a wide brush. Old saying, "point a demosincebirth Jan 2019 #151

I wonder, would you say that to a member Mariana Jan 2019 #155

I have a very large family, 99% Catholic, three gay and all liberal, but not in all sense. demosincebirth Jan 2019 #280

The majority of Catholics in this country voted for Trump in 2016. Mariana Jan 2019 #284

Had I said all Catholics, you might have something Major Nikon Jan 2019 #162

Religion is very real, and it has an effect on all our lives. Mariana Jan 2019 #154

What makes you say that? Eko Jan 2019 #130

You know what I mean demosincebirth Jan 2019 #142

It sounds like what you mean is religion has been around since humans have Major Nikon Jan 2019 #145

Depends on what you mean by religion marylandblue Jan 2019 #175

The earliest evidence is burial rituals Major Nikon Jan 2019 #180

Yes burial rituals, but also modern hunter gatherer societies provide evidence marylandblue Jan 2019 #187

I never mentioned religion demosincebirth Jan 2019 #281

Whatever you want to call it Major Nikon Jan 2019 #282

Yes I do. Eko Jan 2019 #148

Pretty clear what you mean. trotsky Jan 2019 #163

Interesting post, and I appreeciate what I believe are your intentios. Regarding the difference c-rational Jan 2019 #96

Maybe they are just talking to themselves in a form of self persuasion. littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #147

You are right. Eko Jan 2019 #149

I am not sure what your point is but my reference does not littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #150

My point is that out of "humbleness" Eko Jan 2019 #156

Twisted. How are being humble and empathetic counterintuitive? littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #157

Judging you? Eko Jan 2019 #158

I guess some people will just never get it. littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #161

You said that in humbleness, right? Mariana Jan 2019 #169

With empathy also. Eko Jan 2019 #244

Totally. littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #270

#notallwhitepeople? Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #160

????????????????? highplainsdem Jan 2019 #168

Confused? Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #170

No, I post question marks as an emoji for certainty. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #172

Good. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #173

Making a sandwich will add just about as much to this discussion as a deliberately cryptic remark. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #174

I will assure you everyone who needs to know what it means knows what it means. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #176

Oh, it's a forum in-joke for people who agree with you. How helpful to any discussion in a public highplainsdem Jan 2019 #178

You're half right. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #188

I think I get where you are coming from. MarvinGardens Jan 2019 #166

Time to dust off this old classic again... trotsky Jan 2019 #167

That old classic doesn't apply to my OP, since I made it very clear I wasn't highplainsdem Jan 2019 #171

Great post... ADX Jan 2019 #179

You are absolutely right. trotsky Jan 2019 #193

No one should engage anyone who doesn't want to be engaged... ADX Jan 2019 #217

Uh, by being here in this open forum where all viewpoints are welcome, you are asking to be engaged. trotsky Jan 2019 #222

What the actual fuck's going on here is that in your zeal to attempt to prove some kind of point... ADX Jan 2019 #226

Thanks for the condescension! The OP compares atheists speaking negative opinions about religion... trotsky Jan 2019 #229

Condescension? Seriously? LMAO. This from someone who literally posted a dripping sarcasm smiley... ADX Jan 2019 #250

So ironic. trotsky Jan 2019 #252

First off my "rules" aren't universal, they're my opinions... ADX Jan 2019 #254

Oh OK. Got it. "Rules for thee, not for me." trotsky Jan 2019 #255

Thanks, Mr. Kettle! ADX Jan 2019 #256

Any time, Mr. Pot. trotsky Jan 2019 #259

Nope, I didn't forget... ADX Jan 2019 #264

Oh dear. trotsky Jan 2019 #266

Oh dear... ADX Jan 2019 #269

Apparently you didn't understand what that saying means. trotsky Jan 2019 #275

Post removed Post removed Jan 2019 #289

"I hope you get the help you need"?? trotsky Jan 2019 #290

Who said anything about mental illness? ADX Jan 2019 #291

Doubling down on the abuse. An interesting tactic. trotsky Jan 2019 #292

Uh huh. trotsky Jan 2019 #192

LOL highplainsdem Jan 2019 #194

For real, take a good look at what you've posted. trotsky Jan 2019 #196

No, that excerpt was posted as an example of the words "proselytize" and "evangelize" being used highplainsdem Jan 2019 #203

And the "tone" of saying "we're here" is the same as that of the TV preacher? trotsky Jan 2019 #221

Again: I have nothing against atheists, and there's nothing wrong with making a case for your highplainsdem Jan 2019 #227

But that's exactly what your OP said. trotsky Jan 2019 #230

Of course they are identical, Trotsky! Mariana Jan 2019 #231

Two sides of the same coin, CLEARLY!! trotsky Jan 2019 #234

Do you agree with everything that Obama, Biden and Clinton have done? Eko Jan 2019 #246

Far better if this "classic" had some relevance. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #274

You have convinced yourself. trotsky Jan 2019 #276

I would argue that genuine proselytizing by atheists is wrong, but rare LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #177

I defer to the master...Mr. Carlin, take it away... Moostache Jan 2019 #181

Everything before the 'but' is... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #195

Yeah LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #257

Recommended. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #202

This message was self-deleted by its author Kurt V. Jan 2019 #251

"I have nothing against people who don't believe in conservatism, but people who proselytize... trotsky Jan 2019 #279

Ouch dude... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #283

Well, I'm clearly Sam Elliott. A HERETIC I AM Jan 2019 #293

Sweet essay. Crutchez_CuiBono Jan 2019 #328