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thucythucy

(8,742 posts)
22. Here I'm going to post a much more general reply
Sat Oct 20, 2018, 11:12 AM
Oct 2018

for what it's worth.

I think atheists make a big mistake when they assume that religious affiliation in this country is primarily motivated by theology or belief. I think the largest role played by religion in this society is social. People go to church, temple or mosque to feel a part of a community, in a way for which there is, for them at least, no secular counterpart. They go to a particular congregation because their parents went, or a friend invited them, or they just stopped by and liked the vibe. For very many people this has little to do with politics or any particular religious sensibility. The right has been able to better coopt churches precisely because it seems to have understood this reality in ways that progressives--in my experience--have not. This all may now be mitigated at least in part by social media--which may be one reason why church attendance is declining so among younger people. But church "coffee hours" and such are primarily social gatherings, as are women's group meetings, meetings for young fathers, employment workshops, etc. Just as an example, I know religious people who visit congregants in prison. They do this because yes, the Bible tells them to, but more so because they actually know the prisoner. Indeed, it's almost a substitute for family.

In part this may be why atheists and atheism have made so little progress in the States. If atheists really wanted to strike a blow against organized religion in all its forms, they would, instead of arguing theology, think about ways of providing in secular society the sort of community and support provided by religious organizations. In part this means, of course, supporting a progressive Democratic agenda, which supports a social safety net that insures people in all parts of the country an alternative to religious charity. But further than that, I think it means building an atheist community that goes beyond simply announcing there is no god and expecting Americans en masse to therefore abandon their religion. What that would look like I have no idea, but it might be worth while to at least consider the possibilities.

Finally, to get back to the OP, I think one attraction religious communities offer is that they often include a diversity of people you won't find in many other places. Where else do college professors and high school drop outs gather for a single purpose? Or renters and home owners? Or single parents and long time married couples? Or, more to the point, people with divergent political views? Of course, American congregations usually represent all the usual class and racial divisions--sometimes even more so--but religious services in my experience generally offer a more widespread variety of participants than most secular gatherings. For instance--where else in our culture do teenagers and grandparents socialize on a weekly basis? As an aside: this is why working with religious groups is so effective politically. Whether it was the abolition movement of the 1850s, the civil rights movement a hundred years later, or right wing politics of the 1980s and beyond, involving congregations has always been a highly effective tool for political activists. I can't offhand think of an equivalent secular counterpart.

Anyway, I have to scoot now for a while. I'll check back later. And please excuse my long windedness.

Your question is so general as to be infinitely malleable, but here's my take... FreepFryer Oct 2018 #1
Thanks for your reply. MineralMan Oct 2018 #2
If "examples are easy to find" thucythucy Oct 2018 #5
See my reply to you below. MineralMan Oct 2018 #10
And see my reply thucythucy Oct 2018 #12
And so on and so on. MineralMan Oct 2018 #14
Okay, no problem. thucythucy Oct 2018 #17
I didn't want to go into too much detail... FreepFryer Oct 2018 #7
Perhaps snowybirdie Oct 2018 #3
Beliefs are one thing. Actions are another. MineralMan Oct 2018 #16
Could you be more specific? thucythucy Oct 2018 #4
That denomination is notable for its tolerance. MineralMan Oct 2018 #8
So in part you're answering your own question, thucythucy Oct 2018 #11
In this thread, I am raising a more general issue. MineralMan Oct 2018 #13
Well, again, that's a different question, even if it's only "an expansion." thucythucy Oct 2018 #19
I'm happy to have people explain their own reactions to MineralMan Oct 2018 #21
I'm still not sure I understand then what your question is. thucythucy Oct 2018 #27
See this link for information on the increasing number of Catholic hospitals MineralMan Oct 2018 #28
Here's another link about Catholic Hospitals taking over: MineralMan Oct 2018 #29
At first glance this seems to be less about Catholic hospitals "taking over" thucythucy Oct 2018 #34
Finally, here's another link: MineralMan Oct 2018 #30
On first reading I don't see an explanation as to why thucythucy Oct 2018 #37
I'd agree if the outrage from progressives wasn't selective Jake Stern Oct 2018 #6
Islam, in general, is intolerant of many things. MineralMan Oct 2018 #9
Your question here seems different from the one in your OP: thucythucy Oct 2018 #15
You're welcome to take the thread in any direction you wish. MineralMan Oct 2018 #18
See my post 19 thucythucy Oct 2018 #20
I think both should be "tolerated" qazplm135 Oct 2018 #41
Here I'm going to post a much more general reply thucythucy Oct 2018 #22
Really, there is no "atheist community." MineralMan Oct 2018 #24
All of which supports the point I've been making. thucythucy Oct 2018 #35
Atheism has no intention to do any of that. MineralMan Oct 2018 #38
I understand that. thucythucy Oct 2018 #39
I agree with that, but I'd also add that religious experience is important marylandblue Oct 2018 #26
Excellent point. thucythucy Oct 2018 #36
Early childhood indoctrination is a huge factor. Mariana Oct 2018 #40
I have no problem calling out religion. Cartoonist Oct 2018 #23
Yes. That's why the word "some" is in the title. MineralMan Oct 2018 #25
Looking at your title, guillaumeb Oct 2018 #31
You mean some as in thousands and thousands and thousands? Iggo Oct 2018 #32
4 hours later, we are still waiting for some names of these people. guillaumeb Oct 2018 #33
I'll concur with others who have said qazplm135 Oct 2018 #42
Just because they're being "metaphorically beaten" by the right Jake Stern Oct 2018 #43
I have no idea what deserves means qazplm135 Oct 2018 #44
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