Religion

qazplm135

(7,608 posts)

69. As I said above

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:34 PM

Sep 2018

It's a really, really weak argument, but fine, let's go with it.

Taxing someone is at LEAST MORE control than not taxing them yes?

The whole point of the Free Exercise Clause is limiting government control over religion as much as possible, if not eliminating it.

You all seem to be arguing that's impossible when it comes to taxation because it's all "control."

Like I said, sorry but that's a really bad argument, but even if I were to buy that not taxing is still control (it isn't), taxing is absolutely control.

People get the benefits of things they don't necessarily pay for in multiple ways.

even if you don't pay your property taxes, the police and fire departments generally still respond. Getting a benefit of something is not control, and it is not "subsidizing" religion for the purposes of the 1st Amendment's Establishment Clause.

Taxation absolutely is control, and it absolutely interferes or has the great potential to interfere with Free Exercise.

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A Note on Tax Exemptions for Churches [View all] MineralMan Sep 2018 OP

you benefit because all that worshiping keeps angry god from erupting a volcano unblock Sep 2018 #1

There are no volcanos in Minnesota, nor any geological MineralMan Sep 2018 #2

see? prayer works! unblock Sep 2018 #4

But there are tornadoes and blizzards The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2018 #32

Well, given the number of Lutherans and Catholics in MN, MineralMan Sep 2018 #33

Not necessarily. Pope George Ringo II Sep 2018 #41

I know that there are some movements underway to look at this issue (in STLMO at least)... SWBTATTReg Sep 2018 #3

Here in St. Paul, MN, we also have churches everywhere in MineralMan Sep 2018 #8

I don't blame you Ohiogal Sep 2018 #5

So a non-profit charity moves in instead qazplm135 Sep 2018 #6

Churches have a special property tax exemption that is not available to MineralMan Sep 2018 #9

ok then extend it to all non-profits qazplm135 Sep 2018 #18

How does that work exactly? Does one wave a magic wand? Major Nikon Sep 2018 #35

probably the same wand qazplm135 Sep 2018 #38

All that takes is congressional action which falls under the realm of possibility Major Nikon Sep 2018 #39

a tax exemption is a tax exemption qazplm135 Sep 2018 #47

The 501(c)(3) status is not limited to churches. Jim Lane Sep 2018 #43

I didn't claim it was Major Nikon Sep 2018 #44

I feel the same about having to pay for sport stadiums. Doreen Sep 2018 #7

Here, one of our professional sports stadiums is funded via MineralMan Sep 2018 #10

That is ironic. Doreen Sep 2018 #11

Well, there was a lot of blowback about funding the NFL team stadium MineralMan Sep 2018 #12

It's not really the same thing Major Nikon Sep 2018 #36

By law, all 501c(3) organizations are exempt from property taxes. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #13

Not so in Minnesota. some 501c(3) organizations have such MineralMan Sep 2018 #14

And of those that do, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #15

Actually, I am opposed. Property taxes should be part of MineralMan Sep 2018 #16

Consistent, agreed, and understood. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #17

We use tax policy to encourage things qazplm135 Sep 2018 #20

Who are "We?" MineralMan Sep 2018 #22

Really? qazplm135 Sep 2018 #25

I don't mind paying property taxes for schools. MineralMan Sep 2018 #27

so we benefit from community centers if they are governmental qazplm135 Sep 2018 #37

A church is not a community center for the general public. Voltaire2 Sep 2018 #40

That's a pretty specious qazplm135 Sep 2018 #46

Non-religious community centers do not have MineralMan Sep 2018 #42

So all religious community centers focus on religious indoctrination as a goal qazplm135 Sep 2018 #45

I did not use the word "all" with regard to religious ones. MineralMan Sep 2018 #48

I have known several qazplm135 Sep 2018 #49

"Non-denominational prayers?" MineralMan Sep 2018 #50

yes nondemoninational there are two types qazplm135 Sep 2018 #51

How much evil is OK? MineralMan Sep 2018 #52

evil is relative first of all qazplm135 Sep 2018 #54

Religion is constitutionally off-limits for government. MineralMan Sep 2018 #56

If it's off limits qazplm135 Sep 2018 #58

Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. MineralMan Sep 2018 #60

Sooo qazplm135 Sep 2018 #62

Taxation is control either way marylandblue Sep 2018 #63

No you don't qazplm135 Sep 2018 #65

Your rent pays the owner's expenses, including taxes marylandblue Sep 2018 #66

As I said above qazplm135 Sep 2018 #69

My point is that "control" is not the issue marylandblue Sep 2018 #74

control is absolutely the issue qazplm135 Sep 2018 #76

So many red herrings, I'll be eating fish for a month marylandblue Sep 2018 #81

point 2 goes all the way back to McCullough qazplm135 Sep 2018 #83

If you think what I wrote is some kind of legal opinion marylandblue Sep 2018 #85

The property owner pays the taxes. You don't think that's figured into MineralMan Sep 2018 #67

lol qazplm135 Sep 2018 #68

So, you don't think landlords set their rental rates MineralMan Sep 2018 #71

I don't know what the landlord decides in setting the rental rates qazplm135 Sep 2018 #72

You seem to be confused about how accounting works marylandblue Sep 2018 #77

The landlord considers all costs, and sets rental rates based on MineralMan Sep 2018 #79

that's a good way to go out of business qazplm135 Sep 2018 #80

Wait, do you own any property, run a business, or have you ever worked in public finance? marylandblue Sep 2018 #82

I didn't remotely say anything you said in the first paragraph qazplm135 Sep 2018 #84

You said a lot of things. You also said a lot of things you didn't make up. marylandblue Sep 2018 #86

You just moved from churches to religious community centers. Voltaire2 Sep 2018 #53

My "introduction" was at the beginning and it wasn't intended to do anything qazplm135 Sep 2018 #55

Religious community centers are a church function. MineralMan Sep 2018 #57

Do you live in St. Paul, MN? If not, I'm not part of your "we." MineralMan Sep 2018 #29

Chiming in with my two cents. Wellstone ruled Sep 2018 #19

Yup. The government should in no way fund religious organizations. MineralMan Sep 2018 #21

Oh my,reminds Wellstone ruled Sep 2018 #23

Well, I'd have probably not had the man's car towed, MineralMan Sep 2018 #24

Understand that those permits are to displayed Wellstone ruled Sep 2018 #26

See, they could have gotten a permit, put out the signs and raised money MineralMan Sep 2018 #28

Rules are for others. Wellstone ruled Sep 2018 #30

Churches pay taxes on land that isn't for religious or educational purposes marylandblue Sep 2018 #59

True in your case, Wellstone ruled Sep 2018 #61

But that makes sense qazplm135 Sep 2018 #70

That's Maryland law, according to MM and Wellstone Ruled, it's different in other states. marylandblue Sep 2018 #73

that's fine qazplm135 Sep 2018 #75

Here, in Michigan MichMary Sep 2018 #78

Here's why Cartoonist Sep 2018 #31

Let the congregations take up collections or something. MineralMan Sep 2018 #34

If the believers' crutches are really all that important to them Mariana Sep 2018 #64