Religion

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)

34. You aren't understanding the concept of falsifiability.

Tue Apr 29, 2014, 12:12 PM

Apr 2014

The difference between not currently falsified and unfalsifiable is the difference between "haven't yet" or "cannot yet" and "cannot ever".

The manner in which God is defined as possessing limitless magical superpowers renders attaining proof of his existence or non existence not just currently difficult, but LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. That is what being unfalsifiable means. That there exists no possible means of testing for the truth or falsity of the proposition. Not just that you currently lack the equipment and will need to spend some time building it or something.

The existence of extra terrestrial life is not even remotely unfalsifiable. It could easily be demonstrated by the act of going out and finding it... or it coming here and visiting. Or it could be falsified by souring the universe and establishing that... nope... nobody home. That that isn't happening right this minute is not the same thing as saying it can't happen. (Of course you would have to limit the scope of the proposition since the universe may well be infinite in size... otherwise, yes, you could formulate a proposition about alien life that would be unfalsifiable since you can't exhaustively search an infinite space... but THAT specific form of the proposition would be, again, useless.)

The idea that God exists is completely different. Even if something that was claimed to appear that people said was God, how would you demonstrate that was the truth when in order to accept the proposiotn you have to accept the existence of godlike magic superpowers? If you do that who says this entity is God and not an evil wizard pretending to be God so you'll do what he says? Etc. Or if we scour the universe and never find any sign of God? well God's using his magic powers to avoid detection of course! Because... faith... blah blah blah...

Simply introducing the various claims associated with what people generally call God invalidates all possible means of testing, and thus renders the proposition unfalsifiable.

Clear?

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If you cannot disprove the existence of God, or prove the existence of God [View all] Peacetrain Apr 2014 OP

While I agree with you, I think you are missing the point to the Religion Forum nt el_bryanto Apr 2014 #1

Nope, just stating my belief system.. Peacetrain Apr 2014 #2

Exactly what do you see as the point of the religion forum, el bryanto? cbayer Apr 2014 #5

Bottom line is, people are going to talk about what they want to talk about. trotsky Apr 2014 #6

It depends on who you are el_bryanto Apr 2014 #33

Sure, some people most definitely want that chance. cbayer Apr 2014 #40

It's harmful phil89 Apr 2014 #77

OTOH, there may be both plusses and minuses to being cbayer Apr 2014 #79

"Perhaps is it your goal to "save" people?" phil89 Apr 2014 #93

Hmm, that whole saving thing sounds so familiar. cbayer Apr 2014 #94

So maybe atheism is ironically the latest and truest expression of God; would that be bad? Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #141

Of all the inane things I have read in this group, this is possibly the most inane ever. cbayer Apr 2014 #148

Or more politely, "paradoxical" or "ironic"? Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #149

We should post a poll of them all and let the Group decide. rug Apr 2014 #158

That could be really entertaining, but this particular one really takes the cake, imo. cbayer Apr 2014 #161

Here's one rational explanation Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #182

And ye shall be saved!!! cbayer Apr 2014 #184

I'm on a mission from god. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #200

it is so tough for us mundane people to meet your very lofty standards. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #297

Looks like that post went over your head. trotsky Apr 2014 #83

K & big R to you Peacetrain. cbayer Apr 2014 #3

cbayer, I have no way of proving God exists.. Peacetrain Apr 2014 #21

I never engage in the existence of god debate. cbayer Apr 2014 #48

Ah, cunning deployment of Luke Russert's Equivalency Theorem... Act_of_Reparation Apr 2014 #4

I just cited this post to a Libertarian friend. immoderate Apr 2014 #80

I'm not trying to disprove god Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #7

Would never ask you too.. Peacetrain Apr 2014 #16

Seemed like you were making those the options Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #24

Nope Gobllinmonger.. not at all Peacetrain Apr 2014 #31

Did someone here say they were trying to, or could disprove the existence of one or many gods? AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #8

Why yes, it was the dreaded.... trotsky Apr 2014 #11

Damn that guy. He's so quick, you can't even see his posts zip in and out of the thread. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #15

If you cannot disprove the existence of Sarah Palin's god, or prove the existence of yours... trotsky Apr 2014 #9

Are you now, or have you ever been, a witch? AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #10

I cannot prove or disprove that accusation. n/t trotsky Apr 2014 #13

Which is an excellent reason to keep her the hell away from political power. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #18

Palin can believe she wants to.. but her beliefs stop at the end of her nose Peacetrain Apr 2014 #12

Quit telling others what they can or cannot do. trotsky Apr 2014 #14

ahhhh must have hit a nerve... Peacetrain Apr 2014 #17

Yes, it appears I did! trotsky Apr 2014 #19

trotsky it really is okay Peacetrain Apr 2014 #23

If religion was, as you seem to think, just "beliefs that stop at your nose" Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #32

That is more than okay with me to point that out.. I am not saying Peacetrain Apr 2014 #39

You do understand that... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #55

Like when for example the RCC acts to promote laws that discriminate against LGBTQ people? Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #60

Did I say it never happens? Of course... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #63

Did I say that's all there is? No, but you are acting like that is what I said. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #67

Well, that brings up the question of just what do we... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #71

Stand up and clearly voice opposition to what is wrong would be a start. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #75

So totally agree, Peacetrain. trotsky Apr 2014 #50

Interesting.. Peacetrain Apr 2014 #59

Again, totally agreed. trotsky Apr 2014 #64

Its okay.. it really is Peacetrain Apr 2014 #66

Agreed once more. trotsky Apr 2014 #74

trotsky,I don't think I said Peacetrain Apr 2014 #97

You're trying very hard to have it both ways. trotsky Apr 2014 #114

No trotsky.. you read what you read into something Peacetrain Apr 2014 #133

Well, the important thing is you've found a way to feel superior. trotsky Apr 2014 #142

No, she's simply calling you on mistating her position. rug Apr 2014 #159

Ah, but WHOSE nerve is the question... AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #20

Its okay.. I never ask people to prove their belief system Peacetrain Apr 2014 #22

All I know about Sara Palin's religion is that I don't want to be baptized into it. (nt) stone space May 2014 #275

Yelling nil desperandum Apr 2014 #25

No one has the right to cause harm to others with their Peacetrain Apr 2014 #27

Is using ones personal belief system as the basis for legislation and policy harmful? cleanhippie Apr 2014 #30

absolutely can be sometimes.. many times..most of the time Peacetrain Apr 2014 #35

Then you do see the problem of false equivalency in your OP's assertion? cleanhippie Apr 2014 #37

nope none at all.. no one can prove or disprove.. Peacetrain Apr 2014 #42

Who is trying to disprove anything? cleanhippie Apr 2014 #54

Ahh CH... Declarative statement Peacetrain Apr 2014 #56

I really have no idea what your point is. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #85

Interesting. trotsky Apr 2014 #53

they can believe what ever they want.. and live it as they choose Peacetrain Apr 2014 #57

Again, they could argue the same thing. trotsky Apr 2014 #58

Of course they can.. they have a right to believe that.. and live it Peacetrain Apr 2014 #61

So now we come to making laws. trotsky Apr 2014 #73

If the existence of God cannot be proven or disproven... gcomeau Apr 2014 #26

If the existence of other life outside our planet cannot be proven or disproven... cbayer Apr 2014 #28

You aren't understanding the concept of falsifiability. gcomeau Apr 2014 #34

I can't be expected to understand it, being dumb and all. cbayer Apr 2014 #41

I neither said nor implied anything of the kind. gcomeau Apr 2014 #44

No, but you were very condescending. cbayer Apr 2014 #46

I'm fascinated... gcomeau Apr 2014 #47

Ah, more condescension. How's that working for you? cbayer Apr 2014 #49

About as well as your mind reading powers are working for you I'd say. gcomeau Apr 2014 #51

The internet is only as hostile as those who populate it. cbayer Apr 2014 #52

That would appear to be... gcomeau Apr 2014 #65

It certainly could be and the lack of other cues in internet communication cbayer Apr 2014 #69

You mean... gcomeau Apr 2014 #78

Perhaps, or a mere "I am sorry that came across as condescending cbayer Apr 2014 #81

IOW, you require an apology no matter what the other person says. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #165

You also failed to genuflect. n/t trotsky Apr 2014 #88

:-D -eom gcomeau Apr 2014 #92

Having been caught in her own gotcha, the victim mode gambit is now in play. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #62

Ha! trotsky Apr 2014 #95

the question of the existence of life on other planets can be stated as a falsifiable theory Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #38

So how would one disprove the existence of ET life? DanTex Apr 2014 #129

You don't, you falsify the theory that there is no life outside of our planet. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #130

So that means that only one of the two theories is falsifiable, right? DanTex Apr 2014 #131

This is why the requirement of "falsifiability" is silly and misguided skepticscott Apr 2014 #132

I agree with you, to an extent. DanTex Apr 2014 #134

It is the negative. Note you could try Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #144

Well, hypothetically, I don't see why there couldn't be "evidence of god". DanTex Apr 2014 #153

Really? How would disappeared people be evidence of god? Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #175

You got me thinking there Warren Starboard Tack May 2014 #299

It doesn't matter Peacetrain Apr 2014 #29

Ummm... gcomeau Apr 2014 #36

No you are right about that.. if someone is dismissive or you Peacetrain Apr 2014 #43

Well this was a fun thread.. and I am off to lunch.. Peacetrain Apr 2014 #45

What are you defining as god? elias7 Apr 2014 #68

we all have a plan we live our lives by Peacetrain Apr 2014 #70

So what do you mean by deity? elias7 Apr 2014 #89

:) Peacetrain Apr 2014 #96

Well, this morning when I got to work, my SQL server was down, so AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #154

But isn't that exactly the point he is making? cbayer Apr 2014 #72

It is easy to disprove many specific ideas of God. Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #84

Oh, please. That's just simplistic hogwash. cbayer Apr 2014 #87

Hey? Isn't calling atheist ideas "simplistic hogwash" hurtful? Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #139

Hey! That's not an "atheist idea". That's just your idea. cbayer Apr 2014 #147

SOME atheists do not say there is no God; they perhaps merely are disinterested in one Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #151

There is no right, elias7 Apr 2014 #90

Agree. There probably is an answer, but we will never know it. cbayer Apr 2014 #91

We could know. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #156

Someone posted something here the other day that I found very intriguing. cbayer Apr 2014 #160

Many (I would risk saying 'most') caricatures of gods demand some form of allegiance or faith. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #166

Well, that's what the faith part is all about, isn't it. cbayer Apr 2014 #167

Well, I am mostly speaking to the abrahamic traditions. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #170

I believe that you are incapable of faith. cbayer Apr 2014 #172

Totally agree. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #174

Meh, I don't think the bible should ever be taken literally and reject cbayer Apr 2014 #176

Becasue I want to know if it exists. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #177

But you will never know, imo. cbayer Apr 2014 #178

Certain religions make very precise claims about the nature of the universe. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #179

Why are you so intent on causing the collapse of religion? cbayer Apr 2014 #180

Because their faith doesn't stay with them. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #181

Well certainly you are well within your rights to object to anyone cbayer Apr 2014 #183

I don't think there's any equivalency there at all. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #186

The religious right is losing ground, imo. edited to avoid starting another subthread. cbayer Apr 2014 #189

Oh no. Much longer ago than that. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #190

Ok, I think we are talking about two different waves. cbayer Apr 2014 #192

Do you really consider an equivalence between passing a law based on a religious tenet, and me AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #188

But if God exists, and wanted us to believe in him? Just showing himself would do it. Brettongarcia May 2014 #203

If there IS a supernatural god AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #155

I don't necessarily know if that's true. cbayer Apr 2014 #157

Said being could make it clear to us that it has many forms. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #164

Why might it even bother. You may be no more than an ant in an ant pile. cbayer Apr 2014 #168

Most of those claims of evidence/messengers occured long before I was born. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #171

I whole heartedly disagree with the premise Peregrine Apr 2014 #76

Yes this edhopper Apr 2014 #86

Ahem gcomeau Apr 2014 #126

But their vague God is demonstrably not the Biblical one. Who constantly demands "proof"s of himself Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #143

There is *always* an excuse. gcomeau Apr 2014 #146

Then God says "Put me to the test" in Mal. 3.10; "test everything" (1 THess. 5.21?) Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #152

Uh huh. gcomeau Apr 2014 #162

But 1) there is much in God that seems clearly outlined; things not so "mysterious" Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #185

Well sure, there are hundreds of things gcomeau Apr 2014 #187

Pointing that out to them, just the way you have done here, is one very useful thing to do. Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #191

One thing you can do is to realize that objective proof of God existence or non-existence ladjf Apr 2014 #82

Seems we CAN prove the non-existence of God. In "What if God's Existence Were Proven," recentDU post Brettongarcia May 2014 #307

Answer two questions - demwing Apr 2014 #98

I for one will be really interested in watching this thread Peacetrain Apr 2014 #99

A hiccup? demwing Apr 2014 #100

That is assuming that consciousness edhopper Apr 2014 #101

tests for self awareness in non humans have been passed by a surprising variety of animals. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #104

Excellent. demwing Apr 2014 #106

what deity is required? Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #109

That's true, and has nothing to do with my post demwing Apr 2014 #112

ok, then your post is gibberish. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #123

Did that make you feel better? demwing Apr 2014 #128

Perhaps it's an unfair question demwing Apr 2014 #105

We don't have a complete answer edhopper Apr 2014 #110

You're right, that's a God of the Gaps argument demwing Apr 2014 #111

Okay edhopper Apr 2014 #116

"And if you don't see the relevance of the questions, feel 100% free to not answer them " merrily Apr 2014 #140

awareness of the body is not self awareness Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #124

Well, that depends on who is writing the definition demwing Apr 2014 #196

I think the source of life on this planet can be satisfactorily explained by evolution. cbayer Apr 2014 #102

Well that is a common misconception. Evolution does not provide an explanation for the origin Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #107

I don't think evolution explains the source of life at all demwing Apr 2014 #108

Your question is very interesting to me. cbayer Apr 2014 #113

Have you seen this video? demwing Apr 2014 #115

I can't currently watch videos. cbayer Apr 2014 #118

Sorry - here's a quick breakdown demwing Apr 2014 #121

Sounds very cool and I will put it aside to watch later. cbayer Apr 2014 #145

"I've also had times when I wished I was more mediocre" trotsky Apr 2014 #122

Oh, Trots, you have no idea the BURDEN of PERFECTION Heddi Apr 2014 #193

It's tough being you. Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #194

Ah, the argument from personal incredulity. trotsky Apr 2014 #117

Ok, time for me to do some school work demwing Apr 2014 #119

When we talk about the source of life, we have to limit the talk to the life that we know ... Jim__ Apr 2014 #136

These are great answers, Jim_ demwing Apr 2014 #197

I though you were going to edhopper Apr 2014 #198

What I wrote in post 119: demwing May 2014 #202

Oh edhopper May 2014 #224

The only thing I would disagree with is that I don't know that there is any inevitability about ... Jim__ Apr 2014 #199

Improbability demwing May 2014 #268

Sorry to hear that you are having health problems. I hope everything is alright now. Jim__ May 2014 #270

No need for an eternal past demwing May 2014 #273

OK. I don't believe we have established that life is inevitable. Jim__ May 2014 #293

I'm not sure we need to demwing May 2014 #305

Given that we are not sure of the path taken to the origin of life on earth ... Jim__ May 2014 #309

when a personis dismissive Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #103

+1 rug Apr 2014 #120

I might make an attempt to challenge and/or educate them as to why this constitutes cbayer Apr 2014 #150

First come up with a definition of "God" that we can all agree upon... Flying Squirrel Apr 2014 #125

Well FS that is impossible.. Peacetrain Apr 2014 #137

Anyone can tailor the definition of God to fit the outcome they want. Kablooie May 2014 #328

The fact that no one has proven anything either way does not weigh evenly on both sides. merrily Apr 2014 #127

I guess you are talking to me.. Peacetrain Apr 2014 #135

I responded with my general thoughts on the OP, but I was not merrily Apr 2014 #138

Actually, this is not true. I prove so-called "negatives" all the time. stone space May 2014 #271

There is not a full-sized elephant in my pocket. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #272

People prove negatives all the time. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #274

How much is A-2A? edhopper May 2014 #278

Wicked Awesome.... RedRoses323 Apr 2014 #163

I dsimiss your premise. Iggo Apr 2014 #169

Do you mean by that that you think you can prove or disprove god? cbayer Apr 2014 #173

"Act of Reparation?" notes that if you can't prove God ... then believers are wrong too. Brettongarcia May 2014 #204

Er, yeah. That's the whole point of the OP, imo. cbayer May 2014 #210

Now worded a little more unequivocally though: firm believers in God are simply wrong Brettongarcia May 2014 #215

Firm disbelievers are equally wrong. cbayer May 2014 #218

But 1) many people here object to the premise: that God cannot be proved, or disproved. Brettongarcia May 2014 #237

Atheism doesn't claim there is no god phil89 May 2014 #352

You also cannot disprove the existence of god in the form of a monkey, or in the form of a pig, or DrewFlorida Apr 2014 #195

Interesting..ahhh.. Peacetrain May 2014 #206

How in the hell did such a blindingly obvious logical fallacy get to 200 posts? AtheistCrusader May 2014 #201

Maybe it has appeal based on what people would like to believe el_bryanto May 2014 #205

Do we ignore each other? Peacetrain May 2014 #208

You have to look at it from an Atheist point of view - or the point of view of some Atheists el_bryanto May 2014 #209

I see what you are saying. Peacetrain May 2014 #212

Disagreeing with, or arguing with someone, even sans decorum, is not *force*. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #217

No one is saying do not argue, or press your point if different Peacetrain May 2014 #222

That's because it is not intellectually honest to weight proving and disproving god the same. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #223

AC you keep missing my point.. you want to Peacetrain May 2014 #227

You bring up a really important point that I have been mulling over the last 2 days. cbayer May 2014 #228

There is no 'atheist tribe'. If there is, I am not aware of it, and did not recieve my invitation. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #230

Duck!! cbayer May 2014 #235

Without a tribe to identify with, your point is meaningless. Try again. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #236

We must have been on the same wave length today Peacetrain May 2014 #232

That's a nice thought, because I hold you in high regard, cbayer May 2014 #233

cbayer, have you ever read Vonneguts Cats Cradle. Peacetrain May 2014 #238

I read it long, long ago and may need to read it again. cbayer May 2014 #239

Its been a very long time for me also since I read his works Peacetrain May 2014 #241

Fear of the other - that's exactly it. cbayer May 2014 #243

My guess is cbayer that is where hazing has its beginnings Peacetrain May 2014 #245

Some of that is hazing and some of it is more like a loyalty oath. cbayer May 2014 #249

A lot of it is loyalty oath Peacetrain May 2014 #251

Ah, some of my Canadian friends tell great stories about "Newfies". cbayer May 2014 #261

Keep your fingers crossed! Peacetrain May 2014 #263

I will, and I wish you many travels in your future cbayer May 2014 #265

I guess I need to get going Peacetrain May 2014 #266

I don't need to disprove god. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #229

I do not have to prove anything Peacetrain May 2014 #231

Hey, welcome to the club. I see you are an athiest too! AtheistCrusader May 2014 #234

You have a tendency to broad brush the religious communities.. Peacetrain May 2014 #240

You are wrong on so many counts. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #244

laws being passed good and bad have nothing to do with Peacetrain May 2014 #246

Yeah, keep your fingers in your ears and chanting NANANANANAAA I CAN'T HEAR YOU. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #248

I have never said anything, but everyone has a right to believe as they choose Peacetrain May 2014 #252

So we have no argument then. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #253

I can't help you.. I am not Catholic Peacetrain May 2014 #256

Did I say you are catholic? AtheistCrusader May 2014 #258

Those aren't atheists. Those are anti-theists. cbayer May 2014 #213

No. No. No. And I can tolerate *you*. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #216

Interesting, I missed this posts Peacetrain May 2014 #254

Boy, you just 'read' shit that other people don't say all the time don't you? AtheistCrusader May 2014 #257

Maybe we are posting at cross purposes... Peacetrain May 2014 #260

A misunderstanding would explain a great many things. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #262

I think it is the nature of discussion boards Peacetrain May 2014 #264

Broaching the subject with people who by and large, base their worldview in reason, with a logical f AtheistCrusader May 2014 #214

How would you suggest it be phrased then - to communicate that idea without el_bryanto May 2014 #221

Maybe it is something that interests people Peacetrain May 2014 #207

What do you find wrong with it? cbayer May 2014 #211

Wrapped in a logical fallacy. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #219

I edited my response to you here. cbayer May 2014 #220

Do N-Rays exist? edhopper May 2014 #225

They are different things Ed Peacetrain May 2014 #242

Special pleading... Act_of_Reparation May 2014 #247

That is my point Peacetrain May 2014 #250

?! AtheistCrusader May 2014 #259

O_O Act_of_Reparation May 2014 #267

Well belief in god is easily proven edhopper May 2014 #269

Once again here we go Peacetrain May 2014 #289

I understand you point about belief edhopper May 2014 #290

Ed show me where I ever said that.. Peacetrain May 2014 #292

I thought that was what you meant by edhopper May 2014 #295

Have a good one Ed Peacetrain May 2014 #296

I love Rhubarb edhopper May 2014 #298

Me, too! stone space May 2014 #314

Religious beliefs have content. enki23 May 2014 #226

The religious privilege in this thread is rife and unchecked Lordquinton May 2014 #255

I know very few Theists who claim to have a proof of the existence of God. stone space May 2014 #294

Really? Because there are several Theists on this board Lordquinton May 2014 #300

Claiming to know God is not an offer of proof. Hell, my wife might qualify for that, but she's... stone space May 2014 #301

Claiming there is a god means you have some sort of reason to Lordquinton May 2014 #303

Where do you get this from? I keep seeing people say things like this. stone space May 2014 #304

Your reasoning is terribly faulty. trotsky May 2014 #308

You are expecting theists to prove existence. stone space May 2014 #310

Do I need to disprove Zeus to not believe in him? trotsky May 2014 #311

No you don't. stone space May 2014 #312

Yeah, something's silly here alright. trotsky May 2014 #313

It is one sided Lordquinton May 2014 #317

I prove negatives all the time. stone space May 2014 #318

lrn2science Lordquinton May 2014 #319

Of course you can. I do it all the time. stone space May 2014 #320

Mathematically? Lordquinton May 2014 #321

Mathematically. I'm pretty sure that we didn't agree that it couldn't be done. stone space May 2014 #322

Several Lordquinton May 2014 #324

Links make more sense than your paraphrasings. stone space May 2014 #325

Want links? Lordquinton May 2014 #327

I don't recall posting anything about any Nobel prize. stone space May 2014 #330

It was a joke Lordquinton May 2014 #336

Usually what people seem to mean by a "negative" is a universally quantified statement. stone space May 2014 #338

We're using the same words Lordquinton May 2014 #341

I claimed that God doesn't exist, but I didn't claim that I had a proof that God doesn't exist. stone space May 2014 #345

I think this is where your argument falls apart. cbayer May 2014 #306

No, it doesn't put them on the same footing Lordquinton May 2014 #316

This whole argument about who has to prove or disprove cbayer May 2014 #333

The whole argument has been framed in favor of the religionists Lordquinton May 2014 #334

You behave as if there is a war going on here. cbayer May 2014 #337

I'm saying your arguments lead to that line of thinking Lordquinton May 2014 #340

You are right. "We" do those things. cbayer May 2014 #343

Just recently someone here posted that Lordquinton May 2014 #358

Link please. cbayer May 2014 #359

No, but the argument goes something like this: Turbineguy May 2014 #276

Unfortunately edhopper May 2014 #277

See, you just said "most" then brought up fundies and the taliban as your examples. cbayer May 2014 #280

True edhopper May 2014 #281

I know that you were mostly making an argument about Pascal's wager, cbayer May 2014 #283

Evangelicals in the US are fundamentalists in a sense. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #288

But they do live their lives as if God existed edhopper May 2014 #291

Thanks for the education! Turbineguy May 2014 #284

Well, edhopper May 2014 #285

Or just live like it doesn't matter. cbayer May 2014 #279

That is the best way to edhopper May 2014 #282

Some people live thier lives believing that god exists and has precepts they must accept, and impose AtheistCrusader May 2014 #287

Live and let live, sure. Oakenshield May 2014 #286

K&R. darkangel218 May 2014 #302

Since no one else seems to have asked skepticscott May 2014 #315

I have a pretty good idea of what it means to prove something. That's probably why I seldom... stone space May 2014 #323

Don't youmean maybe you don't jump to claim things you can't prove? Lordquinton May 2014 #326

No, what I mean is that I try very hard not to claim to be able to prove things that... stone space May 2014 #331

SO when someone makes a claim Lordquinton May 2014 #335

That's fine, but you're doing it while naked. stone space May 2014 #339

Um, what? Lordquinton May 2014 #342

This was really intended for the OP skepticscott May 2014 #329

Actually, if I understand your question correctly, you should probably take it as a "yes" from me. stone space May 2014 #332

No, since you failed to show skepticscott May 2014 #344

I don't think that you understand what mathematicians do for a living. (nt) stone space May 2014 #346

In fact, I do skepticscott May 2014 #347

Feel free to show me what a proof of the existence of God or the non-existence of God looks like. stone space May 2014 #348

As noted, and now confirmed, you have no clue what you even mean by "proof" skepticscott May 2014 #349

When all else fails, question motives. stone space May 2014 #350

Yes, when all else fails to get a straight, non-passive aggressive answer skepticscott May 2014 #355

You chould try email. It works better for private conversations that posting in a public forum. stone space May 2014 #356

I promised not to post in this forum again, but one last time randys1 May 2014 #351

True. People focus a lot on the western religions phil89 May 2014 #354

And nobody should belittle you for that. stone space May 2014 #357

Also, nobody can prove or disprove that a giant moon mindwalker_i May 2014 #353