Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

yagotme

(3,819 posts)
39. To "regulate" the equipment of the militia would apply to #1,
Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:00 PM
Jan 2019

as you want your militia members to show up with the same caliber rifle, same type bayonet, etc. If you show up with an oddball bore size, you would then have to supply all of your own ammunition, and wouldn't be able to draw from the armory's stores.

I understand your argument, as I see "well regulated militia" in the second to mean properly trained, as the militia would be called upon at a moment's notice to repel a foreign invasion, as due to lack of "immediate" communication, the news of an invasion force would be announced with the shot of a cannon from a ship.

"A well regulated militia," covered above. (Note comma at end.)

"being necessary to the security of a free State," Above comma is separating the first part from the second. Why? Is it just one reason/method to ensure the security of a free State? Why not just say the Army? We just got out from under a dictatorship with a free-roaming army that wasn't under control of the local government, and our founders feared a heavy handed central control of the military forces. They wanted the "militia", the common man, to have a say in the government and some ways to counter an overt takeover of the government. To keep the "State", free. (Again, another comma at the end.)

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms," Who are the "people"? Are they different from the "people" listed elsewhere in the constitution? And that pesky comma, separating this phrase from the former. Part of the sentence, yes, but separated out. Why, again? The "people" made up the militia, and through history individuals and groups have jumped through twisted hoops to define the members of the "militia", but here, in this short little amendment, lies the crux. Is there an age/sex limit on voting, free speech, freedom of religion, etc.? Why all the effort to separate the "people" definition of this amendment from the others? And, to "keep and bear" arms. Simple, really. To "bear" then pretty means the same as "bear" now. To carry. "I can't bear it." "Litter bearer." Has the definition changed since I slept last? Same with "keep." "Can I keep that?" "Keep this close by." (Another pesky comma.)

"shall not be infringed." Well, another comma to deal with. Beginning to look like a shopping list. Wait, I might be on to something here. A partial list of reasons (clause 1 & 2), defining who (clause 3) and action to be (not) taken. &quot s)hall not". Easy peasey. And you CAN shout "FIRE" in a packed theater, if the theater is actually on fire. (I know this statement is eventually going to come out, just doing a preemptive strike.) &quot b)e infringed." Can't ban it. Now, let's look at "regulation". "So, you want to give criminals and the insane guns, huh?" No. Rights from the constitution belong to "citizens" of the State (citizenship being redefined throughout history, as it should have been), and a person that commits a crime as defined by the laws of the state, no longer was considered a "citizen". An immigrant, legal or otherwise, was not considered a citizen until properly naturalized. Therefore, a person locked in jail isn't allowed to bear arms, vote, move freely, etc. "Reasonable" gun laws have made an attempt to "reduce crime", but they usually end up increasing it, as a "criminal", by definition, doesn't follow the law. Background checks are OK, as long as there is an instant "go/no go" answer, otherwise, you are getting into the "infringement" area. We have the capability nowadays to do an instant check, so why delay a right? You just have to make sure crimes are reported into the system.

Is all this so hard to understand? Sometimes, it seems so.



United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939) [View all] discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 OP
What weapons are appropriate to a State militia? guillaumeb Dec 2018 #1
Well regulated means well equiped. gejohnston Dec 2018 #3
well-regulated militia member murders his wife sharedvalues Dec 2018 #4
appeal to emotion, gejohnston Dec 2018 #7
Nope, appeal to facts. Woman murdered. sharedvalues Dec 2018 #8
about facts, gejohnston Dec 2018 #11
Nearly everything you said is false. Please read here. sharedvalues Dec 2018 #15
Vox gejohnston Dec 2018 #16
Vox is truth seeking media sharedvalues Dec 2018 #19
the average Vox writer gejohnston Dec 2018 #21
This is a rightwing talking point. sharedvalues Dec 2018 #22
no, it is objective fact gejohnston Dec 2018 #23
An example of an article with internal inconsistencies discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #29
So if you pay taxes in Ferguson, Missouri... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #12
No, but if you buy ammo, you're complicit in Sandy Hook sharedvalues Dec 2018 #14
That just smells like more "flexible logic" n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #26
See the list of small arms here discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #5
And Scalia's later Heller decision was motivated by politics. sharedvalues Dec 2018 #2
re: "Originalism is a bullshit excuse..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #6
Originalism is Republican bullsh*t. As i said. sharedvalues Dec 2018 #9
Thanks, I will read it but, respectfully... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #10
Respectfully, Scalia, Heller, and "originalism" get Americans killed sharedvalues Dec 2018 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author gejohnston Dec 2018 #17
Please continue to defend Republican judges nm sharedvalues Dec 2018 #18
I defend the BoR, gejohnston Dec 2018 #20
"Well-regulated militia" sharedvalues Dec 2018 #25
which meant you show up with your own gun and gear gejohnston Dec 2018 #27
bulloffal on equipped jimmy the one Jan 2019 #38
To "regulate" the equipment of the militia would apply to #1, yagotme Jan 2019 #39
I am right, you are wrong. gejohnston Jan 2019 #40
no rebuttals, just ad homs & cheap shots & tap dancing jimmy the one Jan 2019 #41
only a postload of ad hominem & cheap shots gejohnston Jan 2019 #42
you're confused discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2019 #43
Legal Definition of in pari materia discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #28
re: germane discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #24
miller vs unorganized militia jimmy the one Jan 2019 #30
re: "This 1939 supreme court ruling on miller was UNANIMOUS." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2019 #31
unorganized militia is a JOKE jimmy the one Jan 2019 #34
Thank you: "It is an opinion..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2019 #35
The current existing law from Title 10 of the US Code discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2019 #36
Last but not least re: "...JOKE" discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2019 #44
Two comments. aikoaiko Jan 2019 #32
You are dead wrong on just about everything jimmy the one Jan 2019 #33
Problems with some of your comments: yagotme Jan 2019 #37
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»United States v. Miller, ...»Reply #39