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krispos42

(49,445 posts)
36. Oh, this crap again.
Sun Dec 30, 2018, 11:13 AM
Dec 2018

More proof that propaganda works, I guess.

It's simply amazing how the NRA is at once all-powerful and also on the ropes and on the brink of dissolving. It's also amazing how there is absolutely no discussion about the merits of gun-control laws anymore. Like conspiracy theorist believers, there is a self-contained, fact-and-reason-proof bubble around the most ardent of gun-control proponents that works like this:

Anything a pro-gun-control group proposed is the very definition of "reasonable". It's reasonable because Americans can still own a firearm, even if it's a single muzzle-loading rifle that takes $10,000 and 10 years to get.

If you disagree, you're a Russian troll or trollbot, a gun nut, a gun fanatic, a paid NRA stooge, and/or a terrorist and little kids getting shot in school shootings is what you beat off to in the shower every morning.

This Group used to be fairly busy, with robust discussions about the pros and cons of various aspects and proposals of gun control.

Now the divide has gotten so great it's generally not a topic that is able to be discussed. The sides has simply decided that their position is right, anything challenging it is wrong, and that absolves them from the sin of having to think anymore. For example, the control side has now enshrined into their agenda that things they term "assault weapons" must be banned, and dismiss any analysis or discussion. The debate has never gone away because the definition of "assault weapon" is and always has been arbitrary and mutable, but pointing that out equals "NRA shrill" or whatever. So, it's simply been absorbed into the system of beliefs and no longer subject to scrutiny or debate.

So what can you do?

But here is, once again, my biggest worry: the pro-control side sees the violence problem in America as a hardware problem. This makes them do unhelpful things that a) don't help violence, b) do mobilize pro-gun voters, c) spend political capital on these things, and d) ignore the root causes of violence.

The rich and powerful don't want us to look at things, like drug legalization or the school-to-prison pipeline or privatized prisons or wealth inequality or gerrymandering or election fraud, that actually help to cause high rates of violence. Blaming the hardware means you don't have to look at the system, and not changing the system is exactly what they want!

Look how low their taxes are! Look how many lobbyists they can hire! Look how much influence they have! Look how much the Koch brothers have given to various causes over the decades to shift the politics to the right in this country!

Dammit, every week I listen to the Best of the Left podcast (among others) and I hear experts and panelists discussing the core structural issues with this country, and I want so badly to change them, to fix them. But there's this albatross hanging around the neck of the Democratic party and it's shaped like the 1993 Assault-Weapons Ban, and it keeps dragging us down!

300 lousy votes in Florida shifted from Shrub to Gore, we have President Gore. A few tens of thousands of votes in like 3 states shift sides in 2016, we have President Clinton instead of Twitler.



And now I'm getting the feeling that once again, this is going to somehow be Priority 1. Not investigations leading up to impeachment and removal from office. Not working on sane tax policy or the school-lunch program or empowering the EPA or renewing the Violence Against Woman Act... this issue again!

It's goddamn tiring. It's the illusion of progress, the comforting fantasy of "making a difference". And it doesn't help an iota.




And to shift gears slightly, maybe tens of millions of parents and teachers and school administrators need to stop telling tens of millions of school kids that TODAY COULD BE THE DAY YOU ARE MURDERED IN SCHOOL. That might help with the "millions of kids are terrified" problem. After all, they do fire drills, right? But do parents and such give the kids such dire warnings that millions of kids are terrified of burning to death in school?

No, they don't?

Hmmm... almost like they're trying to accomplish a political goal.

Look, have 2 drills: an evacuation drill and a security drill. One is to get everybody out of the building as quickly as possible in a safe and orderly fashion, and another is to keep everybody in the building and to prevent people from moving into or around the building.

Since there are various reasons that each drill could be used (gas leak, chem lab mishap, earthquake damage, tornado, nearby SWAT raid, riot) then just call them that: evac drill and lockdown drill.

thanks media, gejohnston Dec 2018 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Dec 2018 #2
My kids are adults, gejohnston Dec 2018 #3
This is all a load of distraction. sharedvalues Dec 2018 #5
Agreed; comparing guns to asbestos... is a distraction n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #6
Same profit motive--corporations wanting to sell deadly stuff to make money. sharedvalues Dec 2018 #9
re: "...corporations wanting to sell deadly stuff to make money." discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #12
Cool, you support asbestos AND guns! sharedvalues Dec 2018 #13
Cool, you can make stuff up discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #25
re: profit motive discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2019 #57
still not a valid argument gejohnston Dec 2018 #8
Republicans stopped govt from funding research sharedvalues Dec 2018 #10
not true either, gejohnston Dec 2018 #14
You're wrong. DU has discussed this at length sharedvalues Dec 2018 #15
That's nice, gejohnston Dec 2018 #17
Wrong. Read link above. Fewer guns, fewer dead kids. sharedvalues Dec 2018 #19
I've heard about some... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Dec 2018 #16
don't have any, gejohnston Dec 2018 #18
Read the link above. Fewer guns, fewer deaths. sharedvalues Dec 2018 #20
From your link ... Straw Man Dec 2018 #22
Yup. You don't understand how the scientific method works. sharedvalues Dec 2018 #23
Do tell. Straw Man Dec 2018 #24
Read the article sharedvalues Dec 2018 #29
C'mon now. I read the article. Straw Man Dec 2018 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Dec 2018 #21
Good work. Canada is another good example sharedvalues Dec 2018 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Dec 2018 #33
Guns can be used for evil purposes or for good purposes. ... spin Dec 2018 #4
A gun is a simple tool discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #7
True. Guns can and are used to kill children. sharedvalues Dec 2018 #11
My daughter had recently graduated from high school ... spin Dec 2018 #31
Please read reply #1 guillaumeb Dec 2018 #28
Research on the number of times firearms are used for legitimate self defense is ... spin Dec 2018 #32
actually not true, gejohnston Dec 2018 #35
Dr. Arthur Kellerman, stated: discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #38
But with those odds, that undercuts the reason many give for owning guns. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #27
It undercuts the need for cops, gejohnston Dec 2018 #34
Oh, this crap again. krispos42 Dec 2018 #36
What astounds me, gejohnston Dec 2018 #37
It's focusing on the hardware krispos42 Dec 2018 #40
No, I'd say you're just wrong. sharedvalues Jan 2019 #43
ad hoc logical fallacy gejohnston Jan 2019 #44
Non-sequitur fallacy. Truth: Fewer guns, fewer dead kids sharedvalues Jan 2019 #45
Wealth inequality gejohnston Jan 2019 #46
False: let's focus on Canada sharedvalues Jan 2019 #48
wrong about everything as usual gejohnston Jan 2019 #49
False. The truth--Canada: few handguns on streets, few deaths. sharedvalues Jan 2019 #54
ad hoc fallacy gejohnston Jan 2019 #55
Non sequitur fallacy. Fewer guns, fewer deaths. sharedvalues Jan 2019 #61
and you don't know gejohnston Jan 2019 #64
I'm sorry you're unaware of the definition of "non sequitur" sharedvalues Jan 2019 #66
I simply pointed out a gejohnston Jan 2019 #67
"Non sequitur": point that is irrelevant sharedvalues Jan 2019 #68
Nobody is advocating for kids getting killed. Straw Man Jan 2019 #69
The truth: Mexico:few guns on street (legally), many deaths. yagotme Jan 2019 #60
What evidence and/or proof do you have to back up this claim? oneshooter Dec 2018 #41
I suggest reading the article I linked. sharedvalues Jan 2019 #42
IOW, "I like this editorial, therefore it is accurate and you should simply accept my word for it" friendly_iconoclast Jan 2019 #71
Proper secured storage is a good thing. ManiacJoe Jan 2019 #47
Mere moral panic mongering, the likes of which we've seen before: friendly_iconoclast Jan 2019 #50
"Won't somebody *please* think of the children?" friendly_iconoclast Jan 2019 #51
Except: kids ARE getting killed. It's a fact. sharedvalues Jan 2019 #63
You're far from the first to sanctimoniously proclaim that you're trying to 'save' children... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2019 #70
As a gun owner, this is not a compelling argument. aikoaiko Jan 2019 #52
As a gun and ammo buyer, you're complicit in kid deaths sharedvalues Jan 2019 #53
i remember when teachers would use that logic about buying weed. aikoaiko Jan 2019 #56
The new Prohibitionists hate guns (on the L), and migrants (on the R) friendly_iconoclast Jan 2019 #59
That's fair: if you advocate for gun control you're doing good. sharedvalues Jan 2019 #62
I'm interested to know... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2019 #65
No feed for you, but bless your heart Alea Jan 2019 #58
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