Gun Control & RKBA

Straw Man

(6,774 posts)

90. And laws have to have specific goals ...

Reply to SunSeeker (Reply #87)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:09 PM

Feb 2018

... and establish clear guidelines in order to achieve those goals. None of which you're doing here.

And as gun manufacturers create new abominations to evade existing bans, we should pass laws to ban those too.

So let's just cut to the chase and pass a law against "abominations." That should work.

Gun owners fear a slippery slope that will ban more and more types of firearms until they're back to early 19-century technology. You have just clearly confirmed that theirs is a realistic fear, and that, going forward, any talk of "common sense" and "compromise" is hypocritical cant.

"NRA talking points" accusations are the Trumpian "fake news" response of the hardline gun controller: a statement meant to end discussion rather than having to rebut a point.

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REINSTATE THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN! [View all] poli-junkie Feb 2018 OP

Agreed! Snackshack Feb 2018 #1

The 2004 ban was too lenient samir.g Feb 2018 #2

I infer that you mean the 1994 ban which expired in '04 discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #16

Yes, the 94-94 ban samir.g Feb 2018 #20

Ban 'em! poli-junkie Feb 2018 #3

Do it. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #4

Let's add this -- RandomAccess Feb 2018 #5

What an idiotic tweet hack89 Feb 2018 #8

No, ARs are idiotic. And should be banned. Again. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #11

Go read the actual law - you are wrong. hack89 Feb 2018 #13

Nothing I said is wrong. The fact is, mass shootings doubled after the ban expired. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #19

Read your own link hack89 Feb 2018 #22

You do not and cannot dispute that mass shootings doubled after the expiration of the AWB. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #24

The point is it had nothing to do with the number of guns hack89 Feb 2018 #26

The point is the AWB saved lives. Without it killings doubled. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #28

The AR-15 and AR-10 were banned by the AWB Kaleva Feb 2018 #39

Colt made the Target Match rifle hack89 Feb 2018 #44

The AWB was so full of loopholes it was ineffective IMO Kaleva Feb 2018 #45

And how are you going to pay for them, once they are banned? oneshooter Feb 2018 #6

Ask the billionaires world wide wally Feb 2018 #7

I say we make Mexico pay for them n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #14

K & R SunSeeker Feb 2018 #9

Yes, and immediately ban the sale of ammunition. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #10

Please define "assault ammunition" discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #15

This and the ammunition that goes with it. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #17

I'm very sorry discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #23

I understand there are many "assault" type weapons mountain grammy Feb 2018 #30

I hope your granddaughters remain safe and have great experiences in their schools discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #34

And yet ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #35

Target practice maybe, but hunting? mountain grammy Feb 2018 #37

They are used many places to hunt wild hogs discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #38

No wild hogs in our neck of the woods. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #42

No wild hogs? Lucky you. Straw Man Feb 2018 #50

Not big game. There are other kinds of hunting. Straw Man Feb 2018 #40

Colorado. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #41

Please explain. Straw Man Feb 2018 #49

really, I'm just babbling.. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #53

may I recommend gejohnston Feb 2018 #54

Fishing.. now there's something I can relate to.. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #55

Let's try this again. Straw Man Feb 2018 #57

Follow-up shots. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #92

And I think all of you can take your semi autos and shove em.. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #97

Don't hold back. Tell us what you REALLY think ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #100

It can't be discussed rationally,there's no excuse for not reinstating the AWB. Body counts rising mountain grammy Feb 2018 #109

I've been discussing it rationally. Straw Man Feb 2018 #111

AWB didn't ban semi-autos. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #146

Then give up on me already.. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #148

I don't give up on people. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #150

Colorado put a limit on magazine size in 2013. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #154

Most of the time that restriction wouldnt' affect me. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #155

The onus would be on the prosecutors, and as noted there's no way to make it stick... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #166

Yeah, about that: "Many Circumventing Colorado High-Capacity Magazine Ban" friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #164

I'll let my wife know. I'm sure she'll appreciate your opinion. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #145

And one more question about that. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #43

I think you're missing the point. Straw Man Feb 2018 #48

The AR-10 is used on big game. The AR-15 is too small, and illegal in most states for use against AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #91

This is a very good argument for understanding better Feb 2018 #143

The ammunition that goes with it ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #51

The 1994 ban only banned the sale of new ones discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #12

Dems should point to past ban poli-junkie Feb 2018 #18

re: " I think most people dont know there WAS AN ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #25

The ban was and remains a dumb idea. krispos42 Feb 2018 #21

Nope. The ban did not boost gun sales. Your own graph proves it. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #27

I said "tactical rifles". krispos42 Feb 2018 #31

Gore got more votes than Bush in Florida, SCOTUS just didn't let them count all of Gore votes. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #32

And why was it so close? why was is close enough to steal? krispos42 Feb 2018 #46

No, pretending to be like conservative gun nuts will not get us elected. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #47

I didn't say that, did I? krispos42 Feb 2018 #52

Assualt weapons themselves are a "bullshit PR stunt" sold to insecure men. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #56

Just checking ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #58

You highlighted it, yet you can't see it? SunSeeker Feb 2018 #59

Which features are dangerous? discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #60

The whole package. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #61

Excellent answer; completely devoid of facts and details discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #62

I gave you facts. You chose to ignore them. I'm not going to play that game. Bye. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #63

Have a nice life discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #64

Thanks for the confirmation. Straw Man Feb 2018 #65

Nope. The whole package. You'll have to find someone else to be your straw man, Straw Man. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #67

I guess you need to be reminded of what you said. Straw Man Feb 2018 #73

No, you need to stop ignoring words. What part of "Not only that..." do you not understand? SunSeeker Feb 2018 #74

You can keep digging, but you won't find a way out of your hole. Straw Man Feb 2018 #75

You're being intentionally obtuse. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #76

No, actually, I'm not. Straw Man Feb 2018 #79

Actually, choosing not to play your diversion game is the opposite of evasive. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #80

Diversion? What am I "diverting" from? Straw Man Feb 2018 #81

That the cosmetic features of the AR-15 are exactly what sells them to murderous nuts. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #82

I get advertising sells discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #83

Playing tag team eh? Enough with the GOP talking points. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #84

Thanks for the polite answer discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #85

Laws work as controls. That's why we have laws. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #87

And laws have to have specific goals ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #90

The old AWB kept mass killings below half of what they are today. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #99

Do tell. Straw Man Feb 2018 #107

Well, at least you admit there is correlation. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #113

Correlation can be meaningless: mere coincidence. Straw Man Feb 2018 #117

Not a "mere coincidence" when AWB's work in every developed country. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #119

Since when was Norway kicked out of the developed world? Straw Man Feb 2018 #124

You have to reach back all the way to 2011 for a Norway's one mass shooting. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #125

And you missed the point again. Straw Man Feb 2018 #128

No, I didn't miss the point. All those countries have the same societal problems we do. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #134

Wrong. Straw Man Feb 2018 #165

Murderers already violate laws against murder; why would they obey others? MichMan Feb 2018 #105

What about the laws that have been on the books for centuries making murder illegal? MichMan Feb 2018 #106

The gun fan tag team gets bigger! So, MichMan, should we legalize murder? SunSeeker Feb 2018 #114

What new laws would people that murder decide to obey ? MichMan Feb 2018 #115

Criminals don't obey laws so why have any laws, eh MichMan? SunSeeker Feb 2018 #116

We need to get a few things straight discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #162

"GOP (NRA) talking point(s)" are the Left version of "fake news": thought-terminating cliches friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #133

You're going to have to do better than that. Straw Man Feb 2018 #86

You do not want an AWB, so spare me your concerns about what would "help." nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #88

And you want an AWB even if it wouldn't help. Straw Man Feb 2018 #89

Not me. You're projecting. "Ideological absolutism" is the NRA's game. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #95

Now we're just playing "Are not!/Are too!" games. Straw Man Feb 2018 #101

More projection. You must have a lot of time on your hands. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #102

Run out of counter-arguments? Straw Man Feb 2018 #108

You offered no argument to counter. Just diversion and insults. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #112

I have offered several arguments, with evidence to support them. Straw Man Feb 2018 #118

Diversionary NRA talking points are not arguments to the point I made. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #120

"NRA talking points" is a Trumpian "fake news" accusation designed to deflect and avoid. Straw Man Feb 2018 #122

No, NRA talking points are how you avoid addressing the fact that ARs are marketed to nuts. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #123

Doubling down on the deflection, eh? Straw Man Feb 2018 #126

More projection. Again, it is the whole package, function and form. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #127

And again and again ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #130

Some of the features you are referring to make the rifle much safer to use. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #94

Well thank GOD mass murderers can slaughter us safely. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #98

9+ million of them in circulation. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #144

one popular feature is it is easy OhNo-Really Feb 2018 #141

And, there we go. Micro-dick jokes. "These fucking idiots". "Rambo". krispos42 Feb 2018 #66

Nope, I am all for the most modern deadly ARs for our military. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #68

So, no actual response then. krispos42 Feb 2018 #69

I won't play the AR deflection game. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #70

Right, because when the emotional rhetoric fades, the facts hurt. krispos42 Feb 2018 #71

Gunners hope the horror of lives needlesly lost will fade. But it won't. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #72

The Military doesn't use the AR. They mostly use the M-4. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #93

The AR was originally designed for military use, not civilian use. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #96

The AR was designed to be a FULL-AUTO military weapon. Straw Man Feb 2018 #121

Bump stocks and easily acquired auto sears make your assertions pure sophistry. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #129

Pious fraud-"easily acquired auto sears" no longer exist. The Feds cracked down on them in 1986 friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #131

So ban bump stocks. I have no problem with that. Straw Man Feb 2018 #132

I, too have no problem with banning bump stocks. A ban would be Constitutionally sound, as... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #135

No, auto sears are not urban myths. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #136

Ah, yes, ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #138

Indeed, no mention was made of diming out the guy. That means one of four things: friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #142

"I knew a gun nut who got one for his AR." You helped enable a felony, *if* you didn't call the ATF friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #139

You called the cops right? AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #149

No. It was 1989, he had a dealer's license and said it was legal for him to have it. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #156

Auto Sears have been regulated as a Machine Gun and registered since 1934. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #157

No, pre-11-1-81, drop-in auto sears for AR-15s weren't regulated. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #159

After that date, they are retroactively Machine Guns. Any rifle that had one installed is also retro AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #160

You left out the part where ARs *that they would fit into* were regulated at the same time... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #161

I have 3 AR rifles that I inhereted from my Dad. oneshooter Feb 2018 #171

This is the kind of catastrophic failure an AR can experience if you try to install an auto sear AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #158

We have a range here... Puha Ekapi_2 Feb 2018 #179

Wow, he's lucky he wasn't arrested, or at the least the rifle confiscated. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #181

Eh, this is on the rez... Puha Ekapi_2 Feb 2018 #182

That's actually pretty cool. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #183

Our tribal cops... Puha Ekapi_2 Feb 2018 #184

That's how it should be everywhere. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #185

You were conned, Sunny- and that post deserves a fisking. So here it is: friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #163

My name is not "Sunny." You just can't help the mocking I guess. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #167

I've supported a slide stock ban for years. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #168

I canvas and phone bank. I got into this thread to support the OP. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #169

I've called you nothing. I've mansplained nothing to you. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #172

You derisively said "Cool story, bro" to me. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #173

You don't get to characterize it as 'jumping on' when the thread literally advertises itself in AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #174

I never called anyone a liar in this thread. You can't say the same. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #175

I didn't call you a liar. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #176

There is no other way to read your "Cool story, bro" reply to me. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #178

You're wrong. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #180

By the way, the 7th Circuit Court invalidated the BATFE's grandfathering of pre1981 AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #177

I stand corrected, SunSeeker-however, everything else I said still applies friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #170

Bump stocks are legal, and available. Auto sears are tightly controlled, expensive, and not availabl AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #152

The production model supplied to the military was the M-16. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #147

The ban was a big factor in the making that type of weapons popular. PoliticAverse Feb 2018 #29

What's an "assault weapon"? discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #33

You have a fundamental error of fact. Straw Man Feb 2018 #36

To be fair DetroitLegalBeagle Feb 2018 #77

I'm don't think that's a fair assumption. Straw Man Feb 2018 #78

I'm with you. leanforward Feb 2018 #103

More. Ban handguns. Like the UK, Canada, and Australia . sharedvalues Feb 2018 #104

Wrong again. Straw Man Feb 2018 #110

Banned in public. You can have them in your house IF trigger locked. sharedvalues Feb 2018 #187

Do you know what "ban" means? Straw Man Feb 2018 #188

Goal posts moved again... nt yagotme Feb 2018 #189

Ban ALL fucking weapons gopiscrap Feb 2018 #137

Start with easy stuff like sticks, rocks, and boards with nails through them friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #140

The idea of mixing fucking with weapons is puzzling. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #153

A butcher knife is a weapon. yagotme Feb 2018 #186

That's a good start! sfwriter Feb 2018 #151