Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: Can you be a Progressive Democrat and still the support the Second Amendment? [View all]discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,578 posts)86. As to the points you raise and a thanks again for the polite exchange
1) & 3) That same Constitution, of which the 2A is a part, names the President as
Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States...
It seems contrary to the position of there being no standing army to name a commander of said army.
2) It was intended originally that service in the organized militia would be compulsory. That is no longer the case. It was intended that those recognized as people (who possessed rights) were at all times part of the unorganized militia. In the vernacular of the day, one meaning of well-regulated was efficient. Being denied the ability to keep and bear arms does not serve to enhance one's efficiency in their use.
4) The term "defense" does not appear in the 2A at all. The announced purpose of the militia is SECURITY. I claim the 2A protects the RKBA, as it says in the amendment. The purpose of the amendment is to ensure that the various militias may not be subjugated and disbanded by the government in favor of their own professional armies or mercenaries. A militia of the people is loyal to the people. Pros and mercs are sometimes more loyal to whoever signs the checks. The existence of a need for a militia does not serve to limit a right expressed in the context of a means to protect the existence of that militia.
By the principle of In pari materia interpreting the 2A ought to be done in respect to the other 9 amendments in the BoR. Their purpose is quite clear from their texts and the preamble, which is the securing personal rights.
5) If you believe that somehow our individual and national interest is served by only allowing arms to those physically fit for service, I further hold by analogy that it would be by the same logic to say we are better served by letting only those with IQs over 100 vote.
Expressing a state and national purpose for a basic right does not serve to limit that right to be exercised ONLY that purpose.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
244 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Can you be a Progressive Democrat and still the support the Second Amendment? [View all]
Berlin Vet
Feb 2017
OP
Support the Second Amendment does not mean supporting Scalia's version of it.
guillaumeb
Feb 2017
#8
You avoided his. When and where has private gun ownership been strictly tied to militia membership?
Marengo
Feb 2017
#126
Oh, a smoke screen is it? Let's try again: When and where has a Federal court ruled that militia...
Marengo
Feb 2017
#128
Was he a "hack" on Texas v Johnson, Maryland v King, Brown v Entertainment, Florida v Jardine...
Marengo
Feb 2017
#145
When and where has a Federal court ruled that militia membership is a prerequisite for the private..
Marengo
Feb 2017
#135
When or where has a Federal court ruled that Militia membership is a prerequisite for the private...
Marengo
Feb 2017
#139
In reality, what is understood is that your position stands utterly unsubstantiated as you...
Marengo
Feb 2017
#146
Your question has nothing to do with open carry, or concealed carry, or supposed self-defense.
guillaumeb
Feb 2017
#147
God God, what a comedy. You're going hide behind THAT? Where's the evidence I asked for?
Marengo
Feb 2017
#149
Do you read the Amendment and decide for yourself what words really matter?
guillaumeb
Feb 2017
#155
All that really matters is the SC's decision, and in Heller a majority agreed the 2nd protects...
Marengo
Feb 2017
#158
So using your link, we can infer that the original intent was that possession of firearms
guillaumeb
Feb 2017
#31
SO, reading your second statement, we can infer that Amendments can be amended?
guillaumeb
Feb 2017
#34
Why is it that somehow with you pro-restriction folks there is always a need for a "need"?
discntnt_irny_srcsm
Feb 2017
#73
A nice response. And polite as well. Something that is occasionally lacking in this venue.
guillaumeb
Feb 2017
#75
As to the points you raise and a thanks again for the polite exchange
discntnt_irny_srcsm
Feb 2017
#86
And yet the gun lobby is rapidly pushing to allow gun owners to carry everywhere.
guillaumeb
Feb 2017
#108
I think it's rather obvious what my preferred list of restrictions would cover
discntnt_irny_srcsm
Feb 2017
#109
Free white women, as a group, were universally prohibited from posessing firearms?
Marengo
Feb 2017
#207
Where was militia service a prerequisite for the private ownership of firearms by free citizens?
Marengo
Feb 2017
#216
Like Scalia, you ignore what you cannot explain in the individual vs group argument.
guillaumeb
Feb 2017
#43
You have always been a good debater, even if I don't agree with your premise...
tortoise1956
Feb 2017
#120
In Plymouth, well before the Second Amendment, it appears that free blacks could own guns
HoneyBadger
Feb 2017
#180
As your "scholarship" is so superior, please provide an example of a Federal court ruling...
Marengo
Feb 2017
#143
When and where has a Federal court ruled that militia membership is a prerequisite for the private..
Marengo
Feb 2017
#141
Re. mental health issues, "progressives" reward lip service, ignore *complete* malfeasance.
pablo_marmol
Feb 2017
#16
Sorry, Berlin Vet, for my not-so-clear attempt regarding "mental health issues"
democrank
Feb 2017
#22
Precrime is a regressive fantasy- all of us have to trust *everyone* we interact with
friendly_iconoclast
Feb 2017
#239
The very idea of "earning" or "qualifying for" trust is anti-rights n/t
discntnt_irny_srcsm
Feb 2017
#240
As GE has mentioned, UBCs can only aspire to create very slight improvement.
pablo_marmol
Feb 2017
#18
No, if you support the NRA interpretation of the 2nd amendment you're a RW nutjob
SecularMotion
Feb 2017
#38
"There is not one Progressive or Liberal organization that supports weakening gun regulations."
wincest
Feb 2017
#59
Do they know you're using the name of their organization to pimp gun rights on DU?
SecularMotion
Feb 2017
#111
Are you attempting to silence that poster with a threat? Sure appears that way to me.
Marengo
Feb 2017
#142
yes, especially if you consider that the Bill of Rights protects civil liberties.
aikoaiko
Feb 2017
#124
Yeah, and I'm as progressive as it comes but I'm like Scalia on this, a strict constructionist...
brush
Feb 2017
#162
Re: "...there is no regulation to keep them out of the hands of the mentally unstable."
discntnt_irny_srcsm
Feb 2017
#163
How do the mass killers get them then, all thru the gun show loophole? We both know that's not true.
brush
Feb 2017
#164