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Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Can you be a Progressive ...»Reply #69
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Gun Control & RKBA

In reply to the discussion: Can you be a Progressive Democrat and still the support the Second Amendment? [View all]

hack89

(39,179 posts)
69. So no state ever properly enforced the 2A?
Reply to guillaumeb (Reply #68)
Sun Feb 12, 2017, 11:28 AM
Feb 2017

So where is all that precedence you say Heller went against? Doesn't really exist?

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Can you be a Progressive Democrat and still the support the Second Amendment? [View all] Berlin Vet Feb 2017 OP
Of course you can AJT Feb 2017 #1
OK so here's my thoughts. hollowdweller Feb 2017 #80
Some lever actions hold 7 (or so), yagotme Feb 2017 #189
Yes, but only if you can't read English DuckBurp Feb 2017 #2
The Founders and the SCOTUS disagree gejohnston Feb 2017 #7
Actually, I think you're wrong, but here's a Valentine anyway. DuckBurp Feb 2017 #56
what is the purpose of the wincest Feb 2017 #58
To enumerate some natural rights, yagotme Feb 2017 #190
Absolutely. pablo_marmol Feb 2017 #3
Thanks for the link. Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #4
You are most welcome! NT pablo_marmol Feb 2017 #5
Great Article Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #10
:-) pablo_marmol Feb 2017 #14
on the first, gejohnston Feb 2017 #6
Support the Second Amendment does not mean supporting Scalia's version of it. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #8
Can we support the Democratic party version? Obama's version? hack89 Feb 2017 #20
That was actually an echo of the Scalia version. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #23
So the party platform is RW on the 2A? hack89 Feb 2017 #65
You are asking for the ideal versus reality. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #68
So no state ever properly enforced the 2A? hack89 Feb 2017 #69
Heller created precedent. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #70
Of course not all men were actually equal hack89 Feb 2017 #74
Heller indeed has been an expansion of rights. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #77
That makes no sense hack89 Feb 2017 #78
The hysteria that drives sales will never stop. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #79
Can you name a single AWB that was ruled unconstitutional? hack89 Feb 2017 #82
What I said is that no regulations will be found reasonable. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #83
But that is not happening due to court rulings hack89 Feb 2017 #84
You avoided his. When and where has private gun ownership been strictly tied to militia membership? Marengo Feb 2017 #126
Prior to Heller, this concept of individual self-defense outside the home guillaumeb Feb 2017 #127
Oh, a smoke screen is it? Let's try again: When and where has a Federal court ruled that militia... Marengo Feb 2017 #128
More avoidance? guillaumeb Feb 2017 #129
Are you then arguing that voting is not a universal right.? hack89 Feb 2017 #132
What did Scalia mean by original intent? eom guillaumeb Feb 2017 #133
"The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." hack89 Feb 2017 #134
It is obviously clear to gun owners and gun lobbyists. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #136
It is mainstream within the Democratic party. hack89 Feb 2017 #138
Was he a "hack" on Texas v Johnson, Maryland v King, Brown v Entertainment, Florida v Jardine... Marengo Feb 2017 #145
What happened to the rest of the Amendment? guillaumeb Feb 2017 #156
No - this is the version you can find in the Democratic party platform hack89 Feb 2017 #161
Intentionally or not, you redacted 1/2 of the Amendment. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #168
So how do you explain the party platform? hack89 Feb 2017 #169
Do I detect avoidance? guillaumeb Feb 2017 #170
Just pointing out that the NRA and Scalia are irrelevant hack89 Feb 2017 #171
Allow me to help you: guillaumeb Feb 2017 #172
So? It still protects and individual right. hack89 Feb 2017 #174
And the Constitution predates the Democratic Party. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #175
Ok. hack89 Feb 2017 #182
Whole lotta comma's in there, yagotme Feb 2017 #191
Two interdependent clauses, and one modifies the other. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #197
I was referring to the original text you quoted. yagotme Feb 2017 #199
A displaced modifier? guillaumeb Feb 2017 #200
Sometimes, when you read something Yoda-like, yagotme Feb 2017 #203
And with you also. eom guillaumeb Feb 2017 #204
Are you seriously trying to argue that... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #154
When and where has a Federal court ruled that militia membership is a prerequisite for the private.. Marengo Feb 2017 #135
More avoidance. I understand that you cannot answer without guillaumeb Feb 2017 #137
When or where has a Federal court ruled that Militia membership is a prerequisite for the private... Marengo Feb 2017 #139
In reality, what is understood is that your position stands utterly unsubstantiated as you... Marengo Feb 2017 #146
Your question has nothing to do with open carry, or concealed carry, or supposed self-defense. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #147
God God, what a comedy. You're going hide behind THAT? Where's the evidence I asked for? Marengo Feb 2017 #149
The post, and my responses, concerned Heller. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #150
What do you mean by "dishonest redaction"? Marengo Feb 2017 #151
That should be obvious. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #152
Can you provide evidence that it is otherwise? Marengo Feb 2017 #153
Do you read the Amendment and decide for yourself what words really matter? guillaumeb Feb 2017 #155
All that really matters is the SC's decision, and in Heller a majority agreed the 2nd protects... Marengo Feb 2017 #158
Even Stevens and Breyer Indicated It Was An Individual Right Rucker61 Feb 2017 #218
Where does it say that the 2A was limited to whites only? hack89 Feb 2017 #131
Hate to break it to you, but you have been misinformed gejohnston Feb 2017 #21
Well, someone IS misinformed. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #24
From the link in #3 discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #26
So using your link, we can infer that the original intent was that possession of firearms guillaumeb Feb 2017 #31
The original intent... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #32
SO, reading your second statement, we can infer that Amendments can be amended? guillaumeb Feb 2017 #34
Are you also in favor of... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #36
You discounted my sarcasm and irony. eom guillaumeb Feb 2017 #40
Sorry about that chief discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #63
The purpose of the BoR... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #37
And that Second Amendment included two clauses. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #39
"Merely" prefatory? Straw Man Feb 2017 #60
Your attempt ignores the actual written wording of the Amendment. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #67
Why is it that somehow with you pro-restriction folks there is always a need for a "need"? discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #73
I referred to a literary need. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #76
I get that. We "gun-nuts" are just sensitive on that word "need" discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #87
Understood. I could have been clearer also. eom guillaumeb Feb 2017 #117
Wrong -- YOUR attempt does. Straw Man Feb 2017 #115
I feel we've discussed this before but thanks the exchange discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #72
A nice response. And polite as well. Something that is occasionally lacking in this venue. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #75
As to the points you raise and a thanks again for the polite exchange discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #86
Since you raised the points: guillaumeb Feb 2017 #89
Point by point discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #105
And yet the gun lobby is rapidly pushing to allow gun owners to carry everywhere. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #108
I think it's rather obvious what my preferred list of restrictions would cover discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #109
We both understand that a respectful dialogue is possible, guillaumeb Feb 2017 #116
Voting has nothing to do with it gejohnston Feb 2017 #44
Other states like Utah... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #64
Utah and Wyoming have something of a rivalry gejohnston Feb 2017 #118
Free white women, as a group, were universally prohibited from posessing firearms? Marengo Feb 2017 #207
Not explicitly. But neither were non-whites explicitly named. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #211
Free white women could not, and did not, possess firearms? Marengo Feb 2017 #212
When you start with original intent... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #213
My interpretation depends on a reading of the actual Amendment. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #214
Perhaps you can resolve the mystery discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #215
I am asserting that, in my opinion, guillaumeb Feb 2017 #220
Again I ask: discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #221
I believe in a complete and literal interpretation. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #223
Why Is Your Version Not Supported By History? Rucker61 Feb 2017 #224
Money talks. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #225
Some History Rucker61 Feb 2017 #227
This message was self-deleted by its author discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #226
Ignoring the question isn't an answer. To clarify: discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #228
Blame the Waite Court Rucker61 Feb 2017 #222
Where was militia service a prerequisite for the private ownership of firearms by free citizens? Marengo Feb 2017 #216
Free white women could not, and did not, possess firearms? Marengo Feb 2017 #230
But SCOTUS precedent... sarisataka Feb 2017 #27
There are no cases prior to Heller v. DC. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #35
So there was no precedent sarisataka Feb 2017 #50
No, the collective right of "the people", as opposed to wording such as guillaumeb Feb 2017 #66
Fourth Amendment sarisataka Feb 2017 #88
The term "the people" refers to the theory. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #90
You are avoiding the question sarisataka Feb 2017 #91
A collective right is not an absolute right. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #96
The only right that is arguably collective sarisataka Feb 2017 #99
Good points about the right of assembly. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #100
A GOP dominated Court is unfortunate sarisataka Feb 2017 #102
Good for your state. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #103
no it doesn't gejohnston Feb 2017 #42
Like Scalia, you ignore what you cannot explain in the individual vs group argument. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #43
Group rights simply do not exist gejohnston Feb 2017 #45
Again you reiterate Scalia's nonsensical excuse for scholarship. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #47
You haven't read any of the links, gejohnston Feb 2017 #48
You have always been a good debater, even if I don't agree with your premise... tortoise1956 Feb 2017 #120
We must agree to disagree on this. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #123
Where free white women as a group prohibited from owning firearms? Marengo Feb 2017 #140
In Plymouth, well before the Second Amendment, it appears that free blacks could own guns HoneyBadger Feb 2017 #180
An interesting article, but how does it relate to the Second Amendment? guillaumeb Feb 2017 #184
You seem reluctant to address this point discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #185
Provisions for an army had a 2 year limit. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #186
A 2 year limit does not preclude a standing army discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #187
My point about the army goes to original intent. guillaumeb Feb 2017 #188
Your point about the army is a conclusion you've drawn discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #206
As your "scholarship" is so superior, please provide an example of a Federal court ruling... Marengo Feb 2017 #143
So 200 plus years isn't precedent? ileus Feb 2017 #122
Other than Heller v. DC, what SCOTUS precedent guillaumeb Feb 2017 #125
When and where has a Federal court ruled that militia membership is a prerequisite for the private.. Marengo Feb 2017 #141
So you'd argue befor heller no individuals owned firearms? ileus Feb 2017 #148
Interesting question. trc Feb 2017 #9
Assault Weapons Ban Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #12
Same as 1994? yagotme Feb 2017 #192
CT and NY Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #198
The thrust of my post was on a national AWB, yagotme Feb 2017 #201
Old Liberal female here who supports the Second Amendment. democrank Feb 2017 #11
Mental Health Issues Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #13
Re. mental health issues, "progressives" reward lip service, ignore *complete* malfeasance. pablo_marmol Feb 2017 #16
Sorry, Berlin Vet, for my not-so-clear attempt regarding "mental health issues" democrank Feb 2017 #22
Out of the 4 you list, yagotme Feb 2017 #193
A progressive Democrat sarisataka Feb 2017 #15
Should Say It Often Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #17
I just can't wrap my head around the fact, yagotme Feb 2017 #194
I have to ask HAB911 Feb 2017 #237
Precrime is a regressive fantasy- all of us have to trust *everyone* we interact with friendly_iconoclast Feb 2017 #239
The very idea of "earning" or "qualifying for" trust is anti-rights n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #240
LOL! HAB911 Feb 2017 #241
YMMV discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #242
Agreed. yagotme Feb 2017 #243
As GE has mentioned, UBCs can only aspire to create very slight improvement. pablo_marmol Feb 2017 #18
Yes. Nt hack89 Feb 2017 #19
I don't agree with your last point about requiring guns to be in a safe, doc03 Feb 2017 #25
what would you recommend if there are children in the home? Phoenix61 Feb 2017 #29
on my to buy list once the grandkids are created gejohnston Feb 2017 #49
You could secure most of the guns in a safe. If you want doc03 Feb 2017 #51
My grandfathers M92 Winchester carries 13 rounds. It was built in 1911. oneshooter Feb 2017 #81
Sure you can. democratisphere Feb 2017 #28
Personally, I would like to make handguns illegal Phoenix61 Feb 2017 #30
If someone is shot and killed... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #33
No, but criminals aren't going to have Phoenix61 Feb 2017 #41
What's the purpose of having laws... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #167
If your local police were confiscating unregistered guns, yagotme Feb 2017 #195
No, if you support the NRA interpretation of the 2nd amendment you're a RW nutjob SecularMotion Feb 2017 #38
"There is not one Progressive or Liberal organization that supports weakening gun regulations." wincest Feb 2017 #59
Not progressive, not liberal SecularMotion Feb 2017 #61
what is your defination wincest Feb 2017 #62
Can we at least agree the 2A protects and individual right? Nt hack89 Feb 2017 #71
As long as you agree that the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. SecularMotion Feb 2017 #92
I have never believed otherwise hack89 Feb 2017 #93
Now you're just being delusional SecularMotion Feb 2017 #94
One issue has broad support hack89 Feb 2017 #95
Correct HAB911 Feb 2017 #238
Very few people are progressive, moderate or conservative on all issues. Kaleva Feb 2017 #46
Yes RoadhogRidesAgain Feb 2017 #52
As originally written, or as demagogued by the NRA et al? Zambero Feb 2017 #53
Yes, and it's not even difficult. HassleCat Feb 2017 #54
I'm sure this has been said a thousand times... sagetea Feb 2017 #55
Gun debate a microcosm of our national psychosis Worktodo Feb 2017 #57
No fuck all gun humpers!!! gopiscrap Feb 2017 #85
This is going to to be a difficult time for you, isn't it? hack89 Feb 2017 #98
i accept your offer wincest Feb 2017 #244
Reason For This Post Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #97
I checked your website and found no mention of guns SecularMotion Feb 2017 #104
ARC Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #106
Did you ask them the same question? SecularMotion Feb 2017 #107
No Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #110
Do they know you're using the name of their organization to pimp gun rights on DU? SecularMotion Feb 2017 #111
Feel Free Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #113
Are you attempting to silence that poster with a threat? Sure appears that way to me. Marengo Feb 2017 #142
He might be asking if... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #112
I See Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #114
Some posters here, yes. yagotme Feb 2017 #196
Yes... Mike Nelson Feb 2017 #101
Post removed Post removed Feb 2017 #119
You can't be a progressive and NOT support the 2A. ileus Feb 2017 #121
yes, especially if you consider that the Bill of Rights protects civil liberties. aikoaiko Feb 2017 #124
yes bluecollar2 Feb 2017 #130
In theory, yes. Reality is a tougher proposition. Paladin Feb 2017 #144
Depends. Can we agree on a definition for "Progressive Democrat" TXCritter Feb 2017 #157
Thanks Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #159
OK, an actual answer to your strategy question TXCritter Feb 2017 #160
Thanks for your response Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #165
Yes but now there's two of us TXCritter Feb 2017 #173
What Other Federally Protected Rights Rucker61 Feb 2017 #217
Yeah, and I'm as progressive as it comes but I'm like Scalia on this, a strict constructionist... brush Feb 2017 #162
Re: "...there is no regulation to keep them out of the hands of the mentally unstable." discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #163
How do the mass killers get them then, all thru the gun show loophole? We both know that's not true. brush Feb 2017 #164
- $$$ not being spent to keep the database updated, discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #166
They have to be adjudicated first. hack89 Feb 2017 #208
The founding fathers used handguns for more than target shooting HoneyBadger Feb 2017 #177
Oh, I forgot, those one shot jobs, right, certainly not full-auto uzis or even glock semi... brush Feb 2017 #179
Sure, if you are part of a well regulated militia. Nt HopeAgain Feb 2017 #176
License & registration MedusaX Feb 2017 #178
Thanks Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #181
A license good in every state in the union? Sounds good. hack89 Feb 2017 #183
heck yeah!!! samnsara Feb 2017 #202
Depends on what you call "support." Warpy Feb 2017 #205
So self defense is not a valid reason to own guns? Or recreation? hack89 Feb 2017 #209
what are military style weapons? wincest Feb 2017 #210
Sorry, but you've been conned re. "military style weapons". pablo_marmol Feb 2017 #219
Of course you can discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2017 #229
In paragraph #1, yagotme Feb 2017 #231
I'm Confused Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #232
No, if the conviction is actually registered in the system, yagotme Feb 2017 #233
You've got it right. Straw Man Feb 2017 #234
Thousands? Berlin Vet Feb 2017 #235
Not all turn aways are for criminal reasons, yagotme Feb 2017 #236
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