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jimmy the one

(2,717 posts)
29. errors in your reasoning
Tue Jan 17, 2017, 12:47 PM
Jan 2017

goodall: The Second Amendment to the Constitution does not give any rights. The Second Amendment is a restriction on the Federal Government from interfering with a citizen's right to be armed. The right to keep and bear arms precedes the formation of the Government, and therefore cannot be given by the Government.

The bill of rights was both a restriction on congress & a guarantee of individual rights (in 2nA case, the right to belong to a well regulated militia, right as a duty):

Wm Rawle, 1829, A view of the constitution, all caps in link, not my emphasis: CHAPTER X. OF THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE POWERS OF CONGRESS — AND ON THE EXECUTIVE AND JUDICIAL AUTHORITIES — RESTRICTIONS ON THE POWERS OF STATES AND SECURITY TO THE RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUALS
Of the amendments already adopted, the eight first in order fall within the class of restrictions on the legislative power, some of which would have been implied, some are original, and all are highly valuable. Some are also to be considered as restrictions on the judicial power.
The constitutions of some of the states contain bills of rights; others do not. A declaration of rights, therefore, properly finds a place in the general Constitution, where it equalizes all and binds all.
http://www.constitution.org/wr/rawle_10.htm

encyclopedia britannica: Bill of Rights, in the United States, the first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution, which were adopted as a single unit on Dec 15, 1791, and which constitute a collection of mutually reinforcing guarantees of individual rights and of limitations on federal and state governments. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/503541/Bill-of-Rights

wiki: The Bill of Rights is the collective name for the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution. Proposed to assuage the fears of Anti-Federalists who had opposed Constitutional ratification, these amendments guarantee a number of personal freedoms, limit the government's power in judicial and other proceedings, and reserve some powers to the states and the public. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172167980

Goodall: (As for the first part, it is a dependent clause to the statement and only serves as an example to support the statement).

If you are referring, as 'the first part', to the militia clause 'a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state,', as being a 'dependent clause, I rather believe Wm Rawle in 1825 from his A View of the Constitution, than someone immersed in 2nd Amendment Mythology:
In the second article, it is declared, that a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state; a proposition from which few will dissent.
The corollary, from the first position, is, that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/print_documents/amendIIs9.html

Wm Rawle calls the individual rkba clause a COROLLARY to the well regulated militia PROPOSITION, and a corollary is what is DEPENDENT upon a higher order of law or rule.

Wrong discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #1
um.. mac56 Jan 2017 #6
At the time of ratification sarisataka Jan 2017 #9
As my learned associate sarisataka has explained... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #17
The Democratic party says the 2A supports an individual right to keep and bear arms. hack89 Jan 2017 #2
There is no basis to the popular myth needledriver Jan 2017 #3
You are right...the 2nd did NOT give the people the right to bear arms. jmg257 Jan 2017 #4
+1 Doug.Goodall Jan 2017 #13
errors in your reasoning jimmy the one Jan 2017 #29
Error in your reasoning: yagotme Jan 2017 #38
Never understood why sarisataka Jan 2017 #5
I believe the placement of the comma's yagotme Jan 2017 #7
+1 Doug.Goodall Jan 2017 #14
You overly complicated it in your "translation"... jmg257 Jan 2017 #8
Why does the word "arms" safeinOhio Jan 2017 #10
It doesn't refer only to firearms sarisataka Jan 2017 #11
taking rawle out of context jimmy the one Jan 2017 #30
Thank you for your support sarisataka Jan 2017 #33
sorry sari, wrong era webster's jimmy the one Jan 2017 #42
Cherry picking key words.. sarisataka Jan 2017 #44
It doesn't. Swords pistols accoutrements jmg257 Jan 2017 #12
Aw man. Ya' done opened up a can of worms now. Ya' done blasphemed flamin lib Jan 2017 #15
You mean Democratic Party talking points don't you? hack89 Jan 2017 #16
How many guns do you own, again? Or, shall I say, "cling to"? Marengo Jan 2017 #18
Your awkward question will no doubt go unanswered... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2017 #24
Might have saved yourself the effort. It's settled law now, at least for the foreseeable future. Marengo Jan 2017 #19
I just want to thank everyone for sharing their opinion.........n/t HAB911 Jan 2017 #20
You're welcome discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #21
See post #19. It's a matter of *FACT* -- *not* opinion. NT pablo_marmol Jan 2017 #22
I just want to thank everyone for sharing their opinion.........n/t HAB911 Jan 2017 #23
I think there's an echo in here... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #25
No, the bill of rights "gives" nothing. X_Digger Jan 2017 #26
original wording was for the militia interpretation jimmy the one Jan 2017 #27
I'm really surprised no one has claimed HAB911 Jan 2017 #28
I think Hamilton was 1 of the 1st..the militia is much more of a defensive notion against tyranny jmg257 Jan 2017 #35
LOL, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, HAB911 Jan 2017 #36
You'll have to find someone who said it did. This is Hamilton's quote. jmg257 Jan 2017 #37
See: yagotme Jan 2017 #39
LOL!...........n/t HAB911 Jan 2017 #41
british scholars weighed in, after heller jimmy the one Jan 2017 #31
story & oliver support the militia view jimmy the one Jan 2017 #32
"probably" sarisataka Jan 2017 #34
They don't count. yagotme Jan 2017 #40
another sorry attempt re founding father quotes on 2ndA jimmy the one Jan 2017 #43
In all of your extended quotes sarisataka Jan 2017 #45
In your quote below, yagotme Jan 2017 #46
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