Gun Control & RKBA

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,577 posts)

167. "...of the people, by the people, for the people..."

Tue Jul 19, 2016, 02:18 PM

Jul 2016

Indeed they are separate from the government. The people are guaranteed their rights by law. Those laws were written to protect the rights of the individuals from abuses by the government. The rights of any minority may be systematically abused by the majority in the form of laws contrary to those rights. For this reason laws passed by the legislature are subject to judicial review.

The language of the Declaration of Independence: "...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." clearly announces governments as being man made creations. Governments do not have rights.

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173 replies

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Why millions of Americans — including me — own the AR-15 [View all] Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 OP

Exactly Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #1

In other words, a handy-dandy modular mass slaughter machine. leveymg Jun 2016 #2

You obviously... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #5

I actually did. The primary argument in favor is that it's a convenient, easy to use killing machine leveymg Jun 2016 #8

I have four and have never killed a living thing. hack89 Jun 2016 #6

I have some old NRA patches from Boy Scout camp, myself. leveymg Jun 2016 #11

I'm sure... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #13

No one in Congress is dumb enough to actually confiscate guns hack89 Jun 2016 #14

So you must only use it for target shooting. In that case you could leave it locked at a range and The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #32

Because we know that guns ranges are so secure hack89 Jun 2016 #54

So all gun stores are safe. Gees, bad argument. At least their would be certified responsibility. The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #105

And anyone shot would be... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #106

Where does it stop. When does the safety of the child on the street count on everyone having an AK? The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #108

The firearms that I own... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #109

Just a few points here discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #119

They pay a lot for security and insurance hack89 Jun 2016 #107

At least as safe as military armories. Heh. But you knew that. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #111

If you have to go back to the 1920's, it seems quite safe. Where can we begin? Things have to The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #115

Do I want to be shot? No. And I don't fear that. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #118

I was talking about the plural "you". The threat is not with you but those who are the prey of too The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #123

Pehaps you can point to someone actually saying; "there should be a gun in every hand"? DonP Jun 2016 #124

Is it enforced? I thought it was archaic and ignored as senseless. The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #125

The NRA... Human101948 Jun 2016 #126

Oh, you mean those "stupid" armed guards in every Chicago high school ... DonP Jun 2016 #128

Well, to be fair... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #130

Yeah, that "big win" will be in court in a New York Minute DonP Jun 2016 #131

Your biggest problem at ATL is... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #136

There are good limits in place. I support UBCs to extend the current prohibitions Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #137

Your hobby has killed many people lewebley3 Jul 2016 #152

You talking about my bourbon collection? nt hack89 Jul 2016 #156

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #21

Not too many blunt objects have been used for mass murders. leveymg Jun 2016 #24

Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #27

You said, "About a rifle that is used in fewer killings than blunt objects, by the way -- such good leveymg Jun 2016 #30

Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #34

doesn't imply anything gejohnston Jun 2016 #35

Logical and persuasive are more than simply reasonable. leveymg Jun 2016 #56

except that you are assuming, gejohnston Jun 2016 #59

Except, that I am correct. leveymg Jun 2016 #82

your logical fallacy is gejohnston Jun 2016 #86

According to you, I am a liar. That's not an argument, it's attack. leveymg Jun 2016 #101

no, and you don't know what the word liar means gejohnston Jun 2016 #102

Gosh, leveymg, you seem to have a hair-trigger. "Attack?" Hardly. OKC. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #112

Better keep this person away from a gun! ;-) NT pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #139

That argument is so compelling... Jerry442 Jun 2016 #52

As is fertilizer and diesel fuel. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #110

Just like nearly every other gun in the country. krispos42 Jun 2016 #129

People are are dying to for this guys hobby: he should be ashamed of himself lewebley3 Jul 2016 #151

Au contraire, those who call a civil right a hobby should be ashamed of themselves... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #154

The country has a right to regulate guns: that's the countries civil rights according lewebley3 Jul 2016 #158

firearms ownership.. Puha Ekapi Jul 2016 #159

Even if we could cut the number of guns in the nation in HALF........ pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #161

Countries do not have rights, they have powers. People have rights... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #162

Emphasis mine: discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2016 #163

Obviously the framers were talking about 'the people' then... beevul Jul 2016 #164

The people are the goverment: they are not seperate from the goverment lewebley3 Jul 2016 #166

"...of the people, by the people, for the people..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2016 #167

That's one of the stupidest things I've read in this thread... NaturalHigh Jul 2016 #173

I see your point BeyondGeography Jun 2016 #3

Great use of modern marketing jargon The_Casual_Observer Jun 2016 #4

Do you know what has killed many more? hack89 Jun 2016 #7

Give it some more time. leveymg Jun 2016 #9

So what ? The_Casual_Observer Jun 2016 #17

Is it safe to assume you regard all guns as "nasty"? nt hack89 Jun 2016 #19

Look I'm not going to waste any more time with you The_Casual_Observer Jun 2016 #37

I fine with that. nt hack89 Jun 2016 #55

That comment shows how little you know... virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #18

More people killed by rocks ... rickford66 Jun 2016 #77

Uh, how many people would have died in Orlando if the shooter used one of those? nt flamin lib Jun 2016 #103

Getting heavy are they? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #104

Actually, the government keeps count: Fewer than 300 deaths from ALL rifles... Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #149

My ex killed feral hogs and javalinas with a regular old 30-06. Zen Democrat Jun 2016 #10

A regular old .30-06? Straw Man Jun 2016 #15

"On American streets" is anti-gun speak for "in private hands". beevul Jun 2016 #61

Your 30-06 was designed to kill humans oneshooter Jun 2016 #16

Like the British Lee Enfield virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #20

But but... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #26

ROFLMAO!!! virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #23

You STOP THAT! RME_SFC Jun 2016 #140

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #25

Isn't a .30-06 for hogs over kill? gejohnston Jun 2016 #31

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #38

Are you under the impression that the .30-06 is not a "people killer" designed for military use? Just reading posts Jun 2016 #39

They are designed to send a projectile down the barrel with great speed and accuracy. Waldorf Jun 2016 #71

In case you haven't figured it out, the rifle in #15 is semi-auto, like the ARs. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #113

Excellent article, and worth a cross post in GD. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #12

And we will continue to own them.. virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #22

How many US citizens have a daily or even occasional need guillaumeb Jun 2016 #28

This is nothing but gun porn to feed the fantasies of anxious white males gejohnston Jun 2016 #33

Indeed so, very sad Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #40

So I am thus a self-hating white male? guillaumeb Jun 2016 #47

What about... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #44

Please delete the words "white males" guillaumeb Jun 2016 #48

Perhaps not so fast chknltl Jun 2016 #80

Carl T Bogus, gejohnston Jun 2016 #87

The former slave states enacted all manner of Jim Crow laws to disarm blacks, post Civil War... Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #114

And to add to that: guillaumeb Jun 2016 #120

Michael Bellisiles won the Bancroft Prize for history. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #150

This message was self-deleted by its author DemFromPittsburgh Jun 2016 #29

Wow that took a while Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #41

You're welcome. DemFromPittsburgh Jun 2016 #42

EDP. Sounds like a rap group. Maybe punk rock. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #116

This message was self-deleted by its author Matt_R Jun 2016 #132

Thank you shireen Jun 2016 #36

Urban Combat give me a f---g break. You mean when those people invade your suburbs doc03 Jun 2016 #43

The select fire Military version was designed for urban combat and CQB use. DonP Jun 2016 #45

And when the term "urban combat" is used, guillaumeb Jun 2016 #49

No, no color can be assumed. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #64

Where the hell or why would a civilian engage in urban combat? We know doc03 Jun 2016 #69

There is always the zombie hord. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #70

For a home invasion an AR-15 would be about my last choice of weapon. You are going to be at very doc03 Jun 2016 #72

Ummmmm....no Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #81

I hope you don't kill one of your family in the next room or your next door neighbor. doc03 Jun 2016 #91

Shotgun vs Semiauto carbine for home defense aside, do not use birdshot for defensive purposes. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #94

To say "it only inflicts a shallow surface wound" is incredibly ignorant. tonyt53 Jul 2016 #153

Did you not notice that I was speaking of birdshot? Just reading posts Jul 2016 #155

I see it differently. pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #160

I agree with you on almost everything else tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #99

An AR 15.. Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #122

So, you van always called your local Law Enforcement. oneshooter Jun 2016 #127

This message was self-deleted by its author Matt_R Jun 2016 #134

Good point tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #135

Lots of misconceptions there. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #90

Agreed. A semiauto carbine such as an AR-15 is an excellent firearm for home defense. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #95

This message was self-deleted by its author Matt_R Jun 2016 #133

This is the same nra bull we always hear MFM008 Jun 2016 #46

AR-15... elephant/rhino... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #51

Lol, yes talk about uninformed Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #67

Well.... RME_SFC Jun 2016 #141

One thing tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #143

Ah yes... RME_SFC Jun 2016 #144

Ummmm... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #53

Q: What do call the sticky stuff on the elephant's feet? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #60

Good one Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #68

W. D. m. Bell killed a large number of elephants with the 7 mm Mauser round. Hangingon Jun 2016 #62

...which is considerably... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #63

He was a fantastic shot. oneshooter Jun 2016 #75

He also used... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #84

I once knew had a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. Hangingon Jun 2016 #93

I have a couple of them. One is a semiautomatic rifle, the AG-42 Ljungman. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #96

He used a .276 Rigby which is the English version of the 6.5 S. oneshooter Jun 2016 #100

The AR-15....21st Century elephant rifle! Just reading posts Jun 2016 #57

I'm not one of these guys who think you should only speak if you're a gun expert... but really. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #58

Uh...What the...? beevul Jun 2016 #65

Its illegal to shoot a deer with an AR-15 here Travis_0004 Jun 2016 #76

Presuming it's chambered for 5.56mm, yes. It would be perfectly legal and appropriate were it Just reading posts Jun 2016 #78

AR's are perfectly legal to hunt with... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #83

Oh, why didn't you say so earlier matt819 Jun 2016 #50

Full of what? Straw Man Jun 2016 #66

Interesting matt819 Jun 2016 #74

Yes. Straw Man Jun 2016 #97

Did you not insinuate that feral hogs RME_SFC Jun 2016 #142

good article beergood Jun 2016 #73

They are fun to shoot. Any other reason is Buzz cook Jun 2016 #79

AR's are down to 550. Used CVA break actions run 190 bucks. ileus Jun 2016 #88

great for mopping up the fear-piss when you see a black kid on a bike go by! MisterP Jun 2016 #85

They make awful mops....not absorbent at all. ileus Jun 2016 #89

Really hoping you just forgot the sarcasm tag. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #92

"MisterP"? Okay. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #117

you do know beergood Jun 2016 #145

You don't say... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #146

Taibo beergood Jun 2016 #147

Yeah. Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #148

did you ever watch Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls? beergood Jul 2016 #157

I bought one years ago, didn't use it tortoise1956 Jun 2016 #98

Sounds like a win all around discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #121

Solid article. pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #138

Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #165

Cowardly? bolus Jul 2016 #168

You have an odd definition of cowardice. pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #169

IMHO one sign of a coward might be... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2016 #170

Yup. pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #171

Another example of cowardice........ pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #172