Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

jimmy the one

(2,717 posts)
30. sam adams proposal was withdrawn
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 10:44 AM
Nov 2015

TeddyR: And I always like Samuel Adams quotes: "And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …

He also had this one, explaining who those 'peaceable citizens' were: Samuel Adams: It is always dangerous to the liberties of the people to have an army stationed among them, over which they have no control ... The Militia is composed of free Citizens. There is therefore no danger of their making use of their Power to the destruction of their own Rights, or suffering others to invade them

BUT, dunno why you think that sam adams quote so appealing, it is ambiguous & maybe even bogus:

sam adams excerpt: ... or to prevent the people of the United states who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms... -- Samuel Adams, in "Phila. Independent Gazetteer", August 20, 1789

Just copying a truncated snippet out of context without precise date, place, and where one can find the original, is hardly a proper cite. These truncated snippets appear in many places, all from the same likely disingenuous redactor. And each hoplophile site just steals it unchecked from another, and keeps repeating it unchallenged. But whether Adams ACTUALLY said it is never proven, and, more importantly, it is ignored that this was merely a proposal, and IT WAS WITHDRAWN! It NEVER was sent! He was NOT involved in its drafting or debate!


Sam Adams quote in fuller context: "And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions." -- Samuel Adams, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of 1788

And "the people" in this context, as it was in JOHN Adams's Massachusetts Constitution of 1780 was ALWAYS "the people at large" acting as the collective body politic, and NOT each and every individual taken separately; THIS was a militia reference to the collective people maintaining the upkeep and readiness of the militia as an alternative to a standing army
http://kryo.com/2ndAmen/Quotes.htm

2nd Amendment showerthought... [View all] Kang Colby Nov 2015 OP
I know people like their guns itsrobert Nov 2015 #1
Actually... Kang Colby Nov 2015 #2
Don't spoil other people's romantic moments.... FSogol Nov 2015 #5
Well, some controllers say the best thing to do with explosive diarrhea... Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #6
What are arms? JonathanRackham Nov 2015 #26
history jimmy the one Nov 2015 #3
You forgot TeddyR Nov 2015 #10
arbitrary power of posters jimmy the one Nov 2015 #22
Actually TeddyR Nov 2015 #27
You are excluding a mountain of case law. (Verdugo-Urquidez, Emerson, etc.) Kang Colby Nov 2015 #19
This ^^^ beevul Nov 2015 #20
Very good post TeddyR Nov 2015 #21
pennsy minority rkba report jimmy the one Nov 2015 #24
Setting aside everything else that is wrong about your post TeddyR Nov 2015 #28
get new glasses jimmy the one Nov 2015 #29
sam adams proposal was withdrawn jimmy the one Nov 2015 #30
don't feel bad for us jimmy the one Nov 2015 #23
Your argument boils down to Kang Colby Nov 2015 #31
state constitutional rkba's jimmy the one Nov 2015 #25
The 2A. deathrind Nov 2015 #4
Re-read the Fourth. Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #7
The 4th. deathrind Nov 2015 #12
They seem to have equated them both in the same sentence. Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #13
Right off the top of my head one issue I have with your interpretation TeddyR Nov 2015 #17
The Second Amendment TeddyR Nov 2015 #8
There is a clear difference between the 4th and the 2nd. deathrind Nov 2015 #11
Thanks for the response and link TeddyR Nov 2015 #16
The 2nd was intended to do 1 thing - ensure the effectiveness of the Militias of the several States. jmg257 Nov 2015 #9
The right to own firearms should be understood at a primary part of natural law. ileus Nov 2015 #14
One small correction. branford Nov 2015 #15
There's a good bit of scholarly work that supports exactly that interpretation TeddyR Nov 2015 #18
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»2nd Amendment showerthoug...»Reply #30