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Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: Gun in hand, 68 year old woman saves boyfriend in attack [View all]beevul
(12,194 posts)25. Boom. You lose.
http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable15.pdf
Normally I would not use a VPC report to pick up after my dogs, but since excerpts have been receiving attention I decided to read the report. Specifically the statement that "Guns are rarely used to kill criminals or stop crimes" reasoning that only 259 justifiable homicides vs. 8432 criminal homicides with firearms in 2012.
Yet the title also says "Non-Fatal Self-Defense Gun Use"; I wondered what the report had to say about that...
COMPARING NCVS DATA TO CLAIMS THAT GUNS ARE USED IN SELF-DEFENSE 2.5 MILLION TIMES A YEAR
Using the NCVS numbers, for the five-year period 2007 through 2011, the total number of self protective behaviors involving a firearm by victims of attempted or completed violent crimes or property crimes totaled only 338,700. In comparison, the gun lobby claims that during the same five-year period guns were used 12.5 million times in self defense (applying to the five-year period the gun lobbys oft repeated claim, noted earlier, that firearms are used in self defense 2.5 million times a year). {p.7}
Unsurprisingly they found a number far lower than the 2.5 million high end claim. But the total dismissed as "only", 338,700, equates to 67,740 DGUs per year.
It should also be noted that the NCVS number is viewed as an absolute minimum and in the report Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearms-Related Violence said of the NCVS "difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use" {p. 15}
Comparing this to
TABLE TWO: CIRCUMSTANCES FOR HOMICIDES BY FIREARM, 2008-2012 {p. 10}
Criminal Homicide 42,419
Justifiable Homicide 1,108
or an average of 8,484 criminal homicides per year.
Two conclusions are quickly drawn from comparing VPC numbers.
1. The murderous vigilante meme is fantasy. The number of justifiable homicides is very low in any given year and roughly .327% of DGUs result in fatalities.
2. Guns are often used defensively; 7.98 times more often than used to commit criminal homicide.
Perhaps the statement should be "Guns are rarely used to kill criminals but stop crimes 8 times more often than they are used to murder".
Normally I would not use a VPC report to pick up after my dogs, but since excerpts have been receiving attention I decided to read the report. Specifically the statement that "Guns are rarely used to kill criminals or stop crimes" reasoning that only 259 justifiable homicides vs. 8432 criminal homicides with firearms in 2012.
Yet the title also says "Non-Fatal Self-Defense Gun Use"; I wondered what the report had to say about that...
COMPARING NCVS DATA TO CLAIMS THAT GUNS ARE USED IN SELF-DEFENSE 2.5 MILLION TIMES A YEAR
Using the NCVS numbers, for the five-year period 2007 through 2011, the total number of self protective behaviors involving a firearm by victims of attempted or completed violent crimes or property crimes totaled only 338,700. In comparison, the gun lobby claims that during the same five-year period guns were used 12.5 million times in self defense (applying to the five-year period the gun lobbys oft repeated claim, noted earlier, that firearms are used in self defense 2.5 million times a year). {p.7}
Unsurprisingly they found a number far lower than the 2.5 million high end claim. But the total dismissed as "only", 338,700, equates to 67,740 DGUs per year.
It should also be noted that the NCVS number is viewed as an absolute minimum and in the report Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearms-Related Violence said of the NCVS "difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use" {p. 15}
Comparing this to
TABLE TWO: CIRCUMSTANCES FOR HOMICIDES BY FIREARM, 2008-2012 {p. 10}
Criminal Homicide 42,419
Justifiable Homicide 1,108
or an average of 8,484 criminal homicides per year.
Two conclusions are quickly drawn from comparing VPC numbers.
1. The murderous vigilante meme is fantasy. The number of justifiable homicides is very low in any given year and roughly .327% of DGUs result in fatalities.
2. Guns are often used defensively; 7.98 times more often than used to commit criminal homicide.
Perhaps the statement should be "Guns are rarely used to kill criminals but stop crimes 8 times more often than they are used to murder".
Boom. You lose. Credit to Sarisataka for that bit of eye opening investigation.
Have a nice day.
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should we just start posting every single gun fatality on that occurs ...on DU?
VanillaRhapsody
Nov 2015
#1
Perhaps it would drown out all these desperate posts trying to prove guns
VanillaRhapsody
Nov 2015
#6
Take out the suicides and you have appox 8,000 firearm deaths per year in the US,
GGJohn
Nov 2015
#101
In Japan, if a husband killes his wife and three kids, it is nit recorded as a murder/suicide.
oneshooter
Nov 2015
#147
Don't we have sooooo many "irresponsible gun owners" in this country???
VanillaRhapsody
Nov 2015
#111
beevulhasn't cited, nor posted links from, the NRA. YOU, on the other hand,
Ghost in the Machine
Nov 2015
#84
Now its congresses fault that you're a poor debater without any reliable source material?
beevul
Nov 2015
#35
statistics......you mean the statistics the NRA controlled REPUBLICAN CONGRESS
VanillaRhapsody
Nov 2015
#36
Well duh! That post just cited a recent gun control related CDC study ordered by President Obama
DonP
Nov 2015
#133
triple DUH! and I just showed YOU how the NRA runs Congress AND then the CDC
VanillaRhapsody
Nov 2015
#140
Prove what? Good night and better luck next time, with your "approach" to discussion you need it
DonP
Nov 2015
#69
More exclamation points and all CAPS doesn't make you sound any less desperate or foolish
DonP
Nov 2015
#79
Vanilla, in a hurricane of gun-banner postings of killings, you found a fetid breeze?
Eleanors38
Nov 2015
#131
Nearly 10,000 American children are injured or killed by guns every year
VanillaRhapsody
Nov 2015
#136