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Surf Fishing Guru

(115 posts)
49. Well . . .
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 07:23 PM
Nov 2015

Well, the "bearing arms for lawful purpose" the Cruikshank Court was describing was the right of armed self defense, in public, as exercised by two ex-slaves, then Freemen from the Night Riders / KKK in 1873 Louisiana, a state with no official state militia -- it having been disbanded by the republican governor.

Armed self defense in public by citizens who were excluded from serving in the militia is what the "it" is in those excerpts and is what the 2nd Amendment protects.

Regarding Miller, it does not support the collective right model. That was created in two lower federal court decisions a couple years after Miller. Cases v US is especially noteworthy because it offers a true (but hyperbole laden) interpretation of Miller's "rule" and what it meant for gun control laws.

The Cases court said after quoting the pertinent parts of the Miller decision:


"

Apparently, then, under the Second Amendment, the federal government can limit the keeping and bearing of arms by a single individual as well as by a group of individuals, but it cannot prohibit the possession or use of any weapon which has any reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.

However, we do not feel that the Supreme Court in this case was attempting to formulate a general rule applicable to all cases. The rule which it laid down was adequate to dispose of the case before it and that we think was as far as the Supreme Court intended to go. At any rate the rule of the Miller case, if intended to be comprehensive and complete would seem to be already outdated, in spite of the fact that it was formulated only three and a half years ago, because of the well known fact that in the so called "Commando Units" some sort of military use seems to have been found for almost any modern lethal weapon.

In view of this, if the rule of the Miller case is general and complete, the result would follow that, under present day conditions, the federal government would be empowered only to regulate the possession or use of weapons such as a flintlock musket or a matchlock harquebus. But to hold that the Second Amendment limits the federal government to regulations concerning only weapons which can be classed as antiques or curiosities,--almost any other might bear some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia unit of the present day,--is in effect to hold that the limitation of the Second Amendment is absolute.

Another objection to the rule of the Miller case as a full and general statement is that according to it Congress would be prevented by the Second Amendment from regulating the possession or use by private persons not present or prospective members of any military unit, of distinctly military arms, such as machine guns, trench mortars, anti-tank or anti-aircraft guns, . . . "




That exaggerated "truth" is why the Cases court invented the "militia right" interpretation in 1942 -- and likewise, in the same year, the 3rd Circuit in Tot created the "state's right" interpretation.

SCOTUS has never embraced or endorsed any permutation of any collective right theory.

Another drive by post with no comment OakCliffDem Oct 2015 #1
Or we could change the SC make up and safeinOhio Oct 2015 #2
Except that the majority of citizens know it is not a collective right OakCliffDem Oct 2015 #4
"Natural Rights" and John Locke. safeinOhio Oct 2015 #5
Natural law folks safeinOhio Oct 2015 #9
That genie won't go back in the bottle Big_Mike Oct 2015 #27
what he said safeinOhio Oct 2015 #28
Stevens has been very forthright in stating and restating his position on 2A Big_Mike Oct 2015 #29
Just one vote, or one judge away from safeinOhio Oct 2015 #30
Just ike they ruled against gay marriage, "Obamacare" and repealed Roe v. Wade? DonP Oct 2015 #32
Who is it, do you think, thats going to bring a second amendment case... beevul Oct 2015 #33
Yep I missed that as I was focused on safeinOhio Oct 2015 #34
Hes just letting everyone know that he either doesn't understand... beevul Oct 2015 #35
Some really crazy gun rights person safeinOhio Oct 2015 #36
The latest in a long chain of similar examples, I'm sure. beevul Oct 2015 #37
You are focused on an invented interpretation. Surf Fishing Guru Nov 2015 #38
but, but, but, but safeinOhio Nov 2015 #39
no, he is describing the concept gejohnston Nov 2015 #40
and the 2nd is the ONLY right safeinOhio Nov 2015 #41
said no scholar ever gejohnston Nov 2015 #51
Really? safeinOhio Nov 2015 #52
for more about the author safeinOhio Nov 2015 #53
two critiques of his gejohnston Nov 2015 #55
No scholar ever. safeinOhio Nov 2015 #57
Saul Cornell gejohnston Nov 2015 #54
You said "NO scholar ever". safeinOhio Nov 2015 #56
I also said who studied the issue seriously gejohnston Nov 2015 #58
OK, how about 15 eminent university professors of early american history safeinOhio Nov 2015 #60
did they base their opinions on gejohnston Nov 2015 #61
fifteen eminent university professors of early American history safeinOhio Nov 2015 #62
your logical fallacy is gejohnston Nov 2015 #63
to answer your question gejohnston Nov 2015 #64
Sure academics can get called out on what they safeinOhio Nov 2015 #65
they all do gejohnston Nov 2015 #66
Is someone who sells out to a gejohnston Nov 2015 #59
You should do some research. Write a paper. safeinOhio Nov 2015 #67
why when so many have done much better gejohnston Nov 2015 #68
what, what, what, what . . . Surf Fishing Guru Nov 2015 #50
how did you miss 1939 miller???? jimmy the one Nov 2015 #44
So,did that repeal the National Firearms act, pass a few years earlier safeinOhio Nov 2015 #45
Well . . . Surf Fishing Guru Nov 2015 #49
militia centric jimmy the one Nov 2015 #72
You have a very fertile mind and great skill finding souces rife with confirmation bias Surf Fishing Guru Nov 2015 #74
surfer guru in fantasy land jimmy the one Nov 2015 #76
Oh Jimmy! Surf Fishing Guru Nov 2015 #80
barroom dancer april love jimmy the one Nov 2015 #78
Awwww Jimmy . . . Surf Fishing Guru Nov 2015 #81
no louisiana militias circa reconstruction? jimmy the one Nov 2015 #79
Facepalm . . . Surf Fishing Guru Nov 2015 #82
con artist in the surf jimmy the one Nov 2015 #83
No kidding. They think the NRA disbanding will change the constitution? yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #3
The NRA and accomplices managed to change the reading of the Second Amendment... Human101948 Oct 2015 #8
Accomplices? People such as Big_Mike Oct 2015 #10
Scholarship? Human101948 Oct 2015 #11
Yes, scholarship Big_Mike Oct 2015 #26
lawrence tribe misconception strikes again jimmy the one Nov 2015 #43
I read an article on it in the NY Times years ago. Big_Mike Nov 2015 #69
Still think Tribe is on your side? jimmy the one Nov 2015 #70
You miss my point regarding Professor Tribe Big_Mike Nov 2015 #75
The 2A posits an individual right that can be strictly regulated hack89 Nov 2015 #77
Destroying rights is really "progressive"....what a dolt. ileus Oct 2015 #6
World Nut Daily? Really? krispos42 Oct 2015 #7
Aren't we always lectured by our "betters" on using right wing sources? DonP Oct 2015 #12
You can use any source IF it fits an agenda. ileus Oct 2015 #13
Well, some people can. Others are pilloried for doing it. DonP Oct 2015 #14
You mean this one? GGJohn Oct 2015 #19
Ah, the vanishing and reappearing Co-Captain of Castle Bansalot DonP Oct 2015 #21
So true Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #23
I recall a post sarisataka Oct 2015 #24
That's rich sarisataka Oct 2015 #15
"...articles written by noted politcal analysts Chuck Norris, Pat Boone and Charlie Daniels." beardown Oct 2015 #22
Ah, The Political Theory of Mass Extinction rides again. Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #16
Gee, SecMo, someone was complaining in ATA 'bout using RW sources in gun discussions. Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #17
I thought World Nut Daily was a no no here? GGJohn Oct 2015 #18
Nice rightwing nutbag source Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #20
So the gun control movement is reduced to racism and eliminationism. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #25
There's no fool ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #31
hispanics on planet pew jimmy the one Nov 2015 #42
Yup, Planet Pew ... Straw Man Nov 2015 #46
more from planet pew jimmy the one Nov 2015 #47
Nice cherry-picking, Jimbo. Straw Man Nov 2015 #48
entrail auspices jimmy the one Nov 2015 #71
Polls don't tell us what people really think ... Straw Man Nov 2015 #73
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