Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
97. Interesting.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 04:30 PM
Oct 2015
Rights do exist to benefit society, after all the point of the constitution was to make a nation, not create personal freedom that could destroy a nation... the FFs weren't anarchists...


Actually, some of them were pretty close to being anarchists in principle. But that's neither here nor there.

If you want to argue that protected individual rights exist to benefit society through the betterment and empowerment of the individual, make your case.

I would point out that, when given the chance, you also offer no solutions, just attack gun control proponents. And that's typical.


I never claimed to actually know what the solution is. I do however, know what the solution isn't :

Taking guns away from/over regulating the guns of - the people that aren't committing gun violence.

I attack gun control proponents ideas when those idea they focus on the people who aren't committing gun violence, and the guns they own. I see such things as a tell, that those making such proposals care little to nothing about gun violence, and care only about getting rid of guns.

As for coming after guns, yes, that's pretty much the only logical solution, but don't worry Americans are way to brainwashed to ever actually come after any guns... your arsenal is safe. At least until the US actually shifts so far left through demographics that the majority changes it's opinion on what "freedom" means... that's gonna happen, but not for years and years.


Ahh, another with preconceived notions, superiority and arrogance. You just know that its Americans at large that are brainwashed, rather than yourself, don't you.

Oh, and about one of those preconceived notions you have rolling around in that head of yours:

I haven't bought a gun in over ten years, haven't touched a gun in months, and don't own any so called "military style/military grade" weapons. In fact I don't own enough guns to have them be considered an arsenal, at least by people with a sense of reason.

When I said compromise I meant working with gun control people to craft a solution that you can both live with. Right now you give up nothing, and the country pays with it's blood.


Of course that's what you meant. The country pays in blood due entirely to the actions of of people that misuse firearms resulting in gun violence.

Theres your area of focus, assuming its the gun violence rather than the guns, which bother you. I am however, unconvinced that that is the case.

We give up a LOT for you to have guns... 10K people's lives a year for starters, and having to deal with endless extra layers of security, and having our kids live through the bloodbath in the news and on tv...


No, "we" give up nothing for me to own the guns I do.

So pretending the majority that DON'T own guns haven't been compromising for years is a joke.


Pretending I was referring to those people when I wasn't, is an even bigger joke.

Now it's your turn to give up something... not your life, like the 3000 kids a year murdered with guns, but a little bit of your freedom to play with your toys...


Thank you for letting me know I can safely ignore anything you might ever again say about the subject, since you're either a brady sycophant, or may as well be one. There are no 3000 kids murdered every year with guns in America by any reasonable definition, in fact, last time I saw the number, it was 56.

And "our turn" a little bit of your freedom?

Listen buddy, We've been "giving up little bits of our freedom" since 1934. We've given up more than our fair share of freedom on this issue, so quit insulting us by pretending that isn't the case .

That's compromise.


No. That's pissing down our backs and telling us its raining. You've already made clear that compromise as you define it, is capitulation. You (the gun control side) get more gun control, and we (the pro-rights side) give up a little bit more freedom, while you assure us all with smiles and talk of compromise stating how important and necessary it is... and everyone on both sides knowing full well you and your gun hating buddies will be back next session asking to 'compromise' again.

The days of that being standard operating procedure, are over, and I would suggest you become aware of it.

The existing laws are NOWHERE near strong enough. And the right has repeatedly gutted any attempt to make them meaningful. REAL gun control would have to be national, and would have to actually do something about the hundreds of millions of guns on the street, and the 10s of millions more headed there.


ROFL. Look, you already gave yourself away the '3000 kids' talking point. I guess when you used the "hundreds of millions of guns on the street" talking point it was sort of an exclamation point? Everyone knows there are not "hundreds of millions of guns on the street" in America, and that you're referring to the guns in peoples homes, which is consistent with anti-gun dogma.

But like I said, don't worry, the pro-gun side is winning... the bloodbath will continue unabated...


If you're only interested in gun centric solutions, that's on YOU, not on the pro-rights folks. It reflects accordingly on you and not the pro-rights folks.


if anything now is the perfect time to invest in Hilenbrand Inc. They are the nations largest coffin manufacturer and business is booming...


I see you:


I think registration of all handguns would be safeinOhio Oct 2015 #1
Thanks EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #2
New York has had that ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #43
In that case safeinOhio Oct 2015 #47
It's the only way EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #50
It will never happen. Straw Man Oct 2015 #56
well.. EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #60
Are you sure ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #61
See here's the thing EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #65
The thing(s). Straw Man Oct 2015 #68
It's been done EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #70
No, it hasn't. Straw Man Oct 2015 #77
A push was made to ban handguns in the early-mid 70s... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #82
No attempt has ever been made EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #87
Google "National Coalition to Ban Hanguns..." Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #94
forming a coalition EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #111
Well, even I wouldn't equate the anti-gunners with flying pig advocacy.... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #131
You forget we aren't searched when entering NY state. jeff47 Oct 2015 #53
Prohibition banned alcohol from sea to shining sea. Straw Man Oct 2015 #57
Somehow, it works for every other industrialized nation. jeff47 Oct 2015 #62
The picture is far more complex ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #63
I've heard that exact argument used about MJ, against CO. beevul Oct 2015 #135
Fact check dot org safeinOhio Oct 2015 #69
welcome to DU discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #3
thanks... and... EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #4
other than a media campaign about... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #7
wellll.... EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #9
politics is about barter discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #10
the problem there EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #11
and what is it that pro-control is bringing to the table? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #12
welll... EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #14
sure but you would need to PROVE that your law would absolutely improve... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #16
ehhh EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #20
one of the issues is the lack of common ground discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #23
Our present laws have cut the murder rate in half hack89 Oct 2015 #35
no EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #51
So isn't the solution to a suicide "epidemic " hack89 Oct 2015 #59
one problem discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #64
absolutely not EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #66
But there are no gun control measures short of confiscation hack89 Oct 2015 #67
lol EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #71
You at least admit you have no realistic solution hack89 Oct 2015 #74
Yup, Ireland's always been such a peacful, safe place with no violence to speak of DonP Oct 2015 #75
Theres that ugly word again. beevul Oct 2015 #13
decades of gun control is a stretch EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #15
See the national firearms act of 1934, do the math, and get back to me. beevul Oct 2015 #18
no EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #72
I hate to point out the obvious... beevul Oct 2015 #83
Well... EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #86
You recognize some of the obvious politics, branford Oct 2015 #95
of course not EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #108
You've proven my point. branford Oct 2015 #118
as you say EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #121
Do you wonder why gun rights are expanding? branford Oct 2015 #139
there's the catch 22 EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #142
Define "and it wil be painful" sarisataka Oct 2015 #146
except your predictions on demographic shifts are assumptions gejohnston Oct 2015 #147
So, at least we've implicitly established that you really have no intention branford Oct 2015 #148
except EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #149
except not gejohnston Oct 2015 #152
Excuse me? branford Oct 2015 #153
So your examples are EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #154
Ah, nothing is as heart warming as a child's simple faith. DonP Oct 2015 #155
Another echo discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #126
Interesting. beevul Oct 2015 #97
10K kids injured and 3000 dead by guns a year EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #123
Yeah, like I said. Brady sycophant. beevul Oct 2015 #134
you need to read more carefully EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #143
but they are not children gejohnston Oct 2015 #144
The operative word, I believe, was 'children'. beevul Oct 2015 #145
riiiiight EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #150
So far, you're following the typical brady bunch script. beevul Oct 2015 #151
Most Americans don't like bartering with our rights yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #26
How about life liberty and the persuit of happyness are those rights? upaloopa Oct 2015 #129
All these good things are mentioned nowhere in the Constitution friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #140
there is a meme for that gejohnston Oct 2015 #17
the thing is EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #21
no they haven't gejohnston Oct 2015 #24
Excellent post..n/t Kang Colby Oct 2015 #30
sigh EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #44
Crickets..... safeinOhio Oct 2015 #48
Crickets? No. gejohnston Oct 2015 #90
Your WaPo articles speaks to gun violence, not violence as a whole as GE was speaking. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #54
Ive never said anything about house to house searches. safeinOhio Oct 2015 #92
Coincidentally, my post was not in response to any of your posts. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #96
the memes were a valid point gejohnston Oct 2015 #89
Would registration of handguns safeinOhio Oct 2015 #5
I suppose registration might be okay but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #6
good to see you discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #8
Welcome. I will respond when I have time to consider your questions thoroughly... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #19
ha! EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #22
Maybe and no. ileus Oct 2015 #25
I would restrict concealed carry permits to trained professionals with a demonstrated need. Maedhros Oct 2015 #27
Like it does in Vermont or Maine? n/t Kang Colby Oct 2015 #28
I'm not familiar with those states' concealed weapon laws. Maedhros Oct 2015 #31
In Maine and Vermont... Kang Colby Oct 2015 #32
Correlation is not causation. Maedhros Oct 2015 #33
I wasn't suggesting that it was. I was simply pointing out that a carrying populace does not Kang Colby Oct 2015 #34
It's not a phobia - it's a reasonable preference. Maedhros Oct 2015 #37
welll.... EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #41
No, it isn't, is it. Straw Man Oct 2015 #40
no need for utopia EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #42
Oh, the irony ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #45
Compare it however you want EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #49
Why not -- it works for you. Straw Man Oct 2015 #55
birds like warm weather jimmy the one Oct 2015 #52
Jimmy painfully elaborates the obvious. Straw Man Oct 2015 #58
is he or isn't he? jimmy the one Oct 2015 #73
Once more, Jimmy. Straw Man Oct 2015 #76
hypothesis defined for ray bolger's buddy jimmy the one Oct 2015 #78
Double duh. Straw Man Oct 2015 #79
I think, therefore I believe jimmy the one Oct 2015 #81
Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #84
think again, my irrefutable rebuttal jimmy the one Oct 2015 #124
Stop letting dictionaries do your thinking for you. Straw Man Oct 2015 #137
arguing the absurd again he is jimmy the one Oct 2015 #156
So ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #157
absurdum ad infinitum jimmy the one Oct 2015 #158
Belief. Straw Man Oct 2015 #159
"Too bad no one but the two of us is reading it." Incorrect, unfortunately for the Stuart heir friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #160
A favor, if you would... sarisataka Oct 2015 #85
Why do controllers only care about "gun violence"? Kang Colby Oct 2015 #29
How do you figure EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #38
Yes. And ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #46
There are many ingredients. deathrind Oct 2015 #36
Very true EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #39
I currently "live with" tens of thousands of alcohol-related deaths a year... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #80
in fact EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #88
This kind of data we have all heard and argued many times... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #91
there is no evidence to support gejohnston Oct 2015 #93
3 polls say gun ownership rates have fallen since '93 jimmy the one Oct 2015 #125
actually, only GSS actually says that gejohnston Oct 2015 #128
abracadabra, and he thinks he wins jimmy the one Oct 2015 #136
Allow me to reframe your question: guillaumeb Oct 2015 #98
Their restrictions were not common sense gejohnston Oct 2015 #99
Define "common sense" in a way that does not posit certain guillaumeb Oct 2015 #100
fact is, there have been mass shootings, as my link documented gejohnston Oct 2015 #101
I should have said that there are no mass killings in other countries like in the US. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #104
entirely different cultures gejohnston Oct 2015 #106
I cannot speak for Australians, but in my view, the difference guillaumeb Oct 2015 #107
the firearms death includes suicides gejohnston Oct 2015 #110
Can we agree to disagree without being disagreeable? guillaumeb Oct 2015 #112
This message was self-deleted by its author gejohnston Oct 2015 #113
well EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #109
Agreed. Killing will continue no matter the weapon employed. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #114
21K are suicides gejohnston Oct 2015 #115
FBI says that 20k are suicide. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #116
Suicide in general gejohnston Oct 2015 #117
When I do suicide assessments gwheezie Oct 2015 #132
Gun control will not do much to save lives, that being said... Kalidurga Oct 2015 #102
I agree with some of what you are talking about gejohnston Oct 2015 #103
I don't know about the percent of stolen guns either. Kalidurga Oct 2015 #105
The only questions that I'm interested in addressing are: pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #119
and what would you propose EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #120
they don't increase gejohnston Oct 2015 #122
I would propose that a good start would be for folks like you pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #138
Let's see two threads today about people getting shot by reckless concealed carry upaloopa Oct 2015 #127
define vigilante shooter gejohnston Oct 2015 #130
you know what I mean upaloopa Oct 2015 #133
Not really, as you've been rather vague friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #141
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Questions the left won't ...»Reply #97