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jimmy the one

(2,717 posts)
45. do you see the 'and' I wonder?
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 11:31 AM
Sep 2015

beevul, +emph: THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added:

You do realize there is an 'AND' between declaratory and restrictive? Restrictive clauses are indeed what restricts congress, but declaratory clauses are what provides for guarantees of individual rights (in 2ndA case, right to belong to militia & kba).

Wm Rawle (1825,29, A View of the Constitution) gives a far better rendition of what the 2ndA actually meant, than beevul's limited understanding:
Wm Rawle: In the second article, it is declared, that a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free state; a proposition from which few will dissent.
The corollary, from the first position, is, that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
http://www.constitution.org/wr/rawle_10.htm

Wm Rawle described the militia clause as "a proposition from which few will dissent". Rawle then described the rkba clause as a COROLLARY.
A corollary is a resultant which is derived from a higher rule or law. Thus the militia clause dictates what the corollary applies to.
There are some views Rawle had in 'A View of the Constitution' which were inconsistent, but this one has never seriously been challenged.

corollary: noun: (logic) an inference that follows directly from the proof of another proposition
noun something that will also be true if a particular idea or statement is true, or something that will also exist if a particular situation exists


Wm Rawle, 1829, A view of the constitution: CHAPTER X. OF THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE POWERS OF CONGRESS — AND ON THE EXECUTIVE AND JUDICIAL AUTHORITIES — RESTRICTIONS ON THE POWERS OF STATES AND SECURITY TO THE RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUALS
Of the amendments already adopted, the eight first in order fall within the class of restrictions on the legislative power, some of which would have been implied, some are original, and all are highly valuable. Some are also to be considered as restrictions on the judicial power.
The constitutions of some of the states contain bills of rights; others do not. A declaration of rights, therefore, properly finds a place in the general Constitution, where it equalizes all and binds all. http://www.constitution.org/wr/rawle_10.htm

encyclopedia britannica: Bill of Rights, in the United States, the first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution, which were adopted as a single unit on Dec 15, 1791, and which constitute a collection of mutually reinforcing guarantees of individual rights and of limitations on federal and state governments. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/503541/Bill-of-Rights

wiki: The Bill of Rights is the collective name for the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution. Proposed to assuage the fears of Anti-Federalists who had opposed Constitutional ratification, these amendments guarantee a number of personal freedoms, limit the government's power in judicial and other proceedings, and reserve some powers to the states and the public. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172167980

Actually, private gun ownership is not rare gejohnston Sep 2015 #1
You make Switzerland sound just like the US. flamin lib Sep 2015 #2
It is a bigger pain in the ass than most of the states gejohnston Sep 2015 #4
Still peddling that Lott shit, right? flamin lib Sep 2015 #5
Are you back again? oneshooter Sep 2015 #6
Actually, I'm peddling Wright and Rossi. gejohnston Sep 2015 #14
Glad we live in America... ileus Sep 2015 #3
Glad you do too Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #7
Isn't it amazing when common sense comes into play. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #8
As a non-resisident and not a citizen of the U.S., Snobblevitch Sep 2015 #42
Only you can answer that Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #43
A follow up to the OP flamin lib Sep 2015 #9
Well thanks... discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2015 #11
Didn't you swear NEVER to post on this Forum ever again? oneshooter Sep 2015 #13
I admire your ability to converse with these folks. I guess someone has to do it. randys1 Sep 2015 #26
You just have to pick and choose who to respond to. flamin lib Sep 2015 #28
I totally agree Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #44
The problem with many Democratic proponents of gun control branford Sep 2015 #49
"Gun Culture:" A patchwork of sociological & psychological terms meant to disparage... Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #10
This OP is a good point of departure for good discussion... Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #12
The argument that guns are causing all the violence in the US TeddyR Sep 2015 #15
That doesn't make sense. DetlefK Sep 2015 #16
You fixate on the metal and plastic, his post focuses on the people intent on committing crime. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #17
No, this is about his reasoning. DetlefK Sep 2015 #18
That's not how I read it. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #19
"The biggest difference between the US and Switzerland? How they think about guns:" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #20
Eh, the militias right now wouldn't accept joining a well-regulated militia. DetlefK Sep 2015 #21
well regulated in the amendment gejohnston Sep 2015 #22
Uhhhh...in the 18c. the government didn't control militias the way you suggest. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #23
any bonehead allowed in the UM jimmy the one Sep 2015 #24
re: the unorganized militia discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2015 #25
Unorganized militia is a JOKE jimmy the one Sep 2015 #31
"Unorganized militia is a JOKE" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #34
woman up jimmy the one Sep 2015 #35
Okay. Females who are members of the National Guard are the only ones eligible for the Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #36
nuclear yammering jimmy the one Sep 2015 #37
"The sleeping masses" are not a federal statue James; the unorganized militia is. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #38
re: your thoughts above from #31 discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2015 #41
(unorganized) groups of one jimmy the one Sep 2015 #47
Please, render for us... discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2015 #48
You're arguing a red herring again, james. beevul Sep 2015 #27
2ndA both a right & a limitation jimmy the one Sep 2015 #33
Negative ghost rider. beevul Sep 2015 #39
Hey, you know very well facts and historical context don't really matter DonP Sep 2015 #40
do you see the 'and' I wonder? jimmy the one Sep 2015 #45
regurgitating a half truth jimmy the one Sep 2015 #46
Says the guy with one eye closed. beevul Sep 2015 #50
"Stop embellishing requirements to join the unorganized MOB" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #30
Unorg'd militia, obsolete JOKE jimmy the one Sep 2015 #32
Concept of being a citizen HassleCat Sep 2015 #29
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