Gun Control & RKBA

beevul

(12,194 posts)

123. No, but amendment 2 does.

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 01:45 PM

Jul 2013

Dance around that all you like, but its a fact as plain as the document itself.

Because a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The context of that sentence makes it very crystal clear that "regulated" means "equipped", and written in modern language, that is precisely how it would be worded.

You guys can cite "well regulated" to your hearts content, it still doesn't change what is.

"The primary purpose of the 2nd is to secure arms for the militia, and to ensure they are well-regulated."

No, the primary purpose, is to prevent government from disarming the people, of which the militia is made up. The framers clearly state it as a right which belongs to the people, not just "the militia".

At the end of the day, right of the people to keep and bear arms belongs to the people as the amendment itself says, not just "the militia".

No "creative" interpretation or extrapolation is going to change that.

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Who are the Militia? [View all] DWC Jul 2013 OP

Times change WovenGems Jul 2013 #1

Couldn't you find a bigger brush? geckosfeet Jul 2013 #3

agreed. safeinOhio Jul 2013 #4

My, oh my, you're a champ. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #11

What? WovenGems Jul 2013 #14

George Mason: discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #16

That answered not WovenGems Jul 2013 #17

Just to be clear... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #18

The militia WovenGems Jul 2013 #21

From US History... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #23

Semantics WovenGems Jul 2013 #25

Agreed in part discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #30

It specifically is not. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #36

Rather an indistinct meaning these days, no? jmg257 Jul 2013 #28

Not even close. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #37

Thank You - "unorganized", which isnt even close to "well-regulated" jmg257 Jul 2013 #41

You don't understand what was meant by 'well regulated'. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #42

Of course I do, its right there in the Constitution, the Militia Acts, even the Federalist papers. jmg257 Jul 2013 #45

Partially agree. Except AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #64

No. The militias are NOT formed in times of need. THEY ARE NECESSARY! jmg257 Jul 2013 #68

I have suggested to our governor on several occasions AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #70

It might. But then agan...why would a sand bag brigade need arms? Or to be well regulated? nt jmg257 Jul 2013 #72

I think emergency management would be a valid test. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #73

Sure. Make the provisions in law. Get the people at least somewhat involved jmg257 Jul 2013 #74

So many falacies in one post. beevul Jul 2013 #43

Bullshit - you might want to read this too jmg257 Jul 2013 #47

Which part of that contradicts anything I said? N/T beevul Jul 2013 #48

"First off, "well regulated" doesn't mean heaped under regulations. " jmg257 Jul 2013 #49

The "well regulated" which I refer to... beevul Jul 2013 #52

YOU get to define the term "well-regulated"? In spite its use in several other period jmg257 Jul 2013 #56

NRA WovenGems Jul 2013 #58

Ooga-booga NRA! AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #66

Except at this point, none of that matters ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #87

Yes! You are of course right. Which is why I dont get all the yap about "militia". jmg257 Jul 2013 #89

Well even newspapers... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #92

Exactly! ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #94

Not strange when one considers the topics discussed. hansberrym Jul 2013 #147

BTW...amendment 2 "calls for" a "well-regulated militia". They are "necessary". jmg257 Jul 2013 #51

No, it really doesn't. beevul Jul 2013 #53

Sure it does. A well-regulated militia is "necessary". jmg257 Jul 2013 #57

It doesn't mean what you think it means. beevul Jul 2013 #111

I know, I never said anything was forbidden. jmg257 Jul 2013 #115

No, but amendment 2 does. beevul Jul 2013 #123

Ha! Ha! You are still on regulated = equipped? Bullshit yesterday, bullshit today, jmg257 Jul 2013 #125

Yeah you're right ... beevul Jul 2013 #128

Thanks - I know! jmg257 Jul 2013 #129

equipped not synonymous with regulated jimmy the one Jul 2013 #117

he's so vain...... jimmy the one Jul 2013 #119

Goofy - right? I just never heard that one before! jmg257 Jul 2013 #120

the right of the people to be equipped snbi jimmy the one Jul 2013 #149

All thaty ability to copy and paste... beevul Jul 2013 #124

n/a nt jmg257 Jul 2013 #130

irrelevant tapdance jimmy the one Jul 2013 #131

LOL beevul Jul 2013 #132

You might want to read this too, on the importance of preambles in amendments... jmg257 Jul 2013 #61

Regarding the Bill of Rights discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #62

Are you stating that there was such a thing as "the unorganized milita" in 1791? jmg257 Jul 2013 #63

Yes discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #65

THAT? The Act that says "organization" right in it??? jmg257 Jul 2013 #69

Unorganized Militia discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #85

??? The same folks as who? What does this have to do with 1791?? jmg257 Jul 2013 #95

Here's a secret discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #97

No, its my turn to say again...the militia referred to in 1792 were REGULATED, organized, jmg257 Jul 2013 #98

Your opinion differs from... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #102

Peace, friend...and cheers! jmg257 Jul 2013 #104

Hmmm...maybe you are missing this? jmg257 Jul 2013 #100

Yes, there was, and they were referred to as 'irregular' troops. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #67

Sorry - "troops" are very different from "militia".... jmg257 Jul 2013 #71

"NOW" being a key word...what year was this? nt jmg257 Jul 2013 #27

Yes of course. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #33

Done - in numerous locations, just in this thread alone. jmg257 Jul 2013 #34

The Militia Act of 1903... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #46

True - and mention the creation of the National Guard as the new "well-regulated militia". jmg257 Jul 2013 #50

I'm a dumbass, ignore this post. :) n/t Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #55

"the unorganized militia" discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #59

Great...thanks for this. jmg257 Jul 2013 #60

Times Change. People don't. DWC Jul 2013 #20

fruitcakes discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #22

OF COURSE people change...a huge majority these days don't want to have ANY jmg257 Jul 2013 #29

Human Nature DWC Jul 2013 #35

If you are male, and were ever between the ages of 17-45 ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #79

This little tidbit is in Virginia's declaration of rights: geckosfeet Jul 2013 #2

Yea but WovenGems Jul 2013 #5

So, I'm a 'nutter' now for being a trained, certified FEMA CERT? AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #39

Clearly a balance is the best option discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #7

And yet Hamilton said... jmg257 Jul 2013 #32

However... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #44

No shit. But what's the point? jmg257 Jul 2013 #80

The point discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #82

the people = 'free adult white males' jimmy the one Jul 2013 #8

re: "...excluding about 75% of other americans..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #9

machiavellian jimmy the one Jul 2013 #15

re: "...75% americans did not have any federal right to bear arms in late 1700's." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #86

You wrote "...hidden individual rkba subtlety...?" DWC Jul 2013 #13

"Unlimited power of the sword" is "in the hands of the people"? jmg257 Jul 2013 #26

Thanks for pointing out ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #90

The people have to be able to defend themselves ileus Jul 2013 #6

They were "ourselves"...circa 225 years ago. Now they are the National Guard... jmg257 Jul 2013 #10

Not that it's a big deal but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #12

coxe spelled it $R$K$B$A$ jimmy the one Jul 2013 #19

Your high volume of verbiage DWC Jul 2013 #24

TLDR ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #91

TLDR and YAWN!! CokeMachine Jul 2013 #105

Modern usage of term "militia" = anti-government, anti-tax extremists and fruitcakes Jessy169 Jul 2013 #31

We must be DWC Jul 2013 #38

You're looking at the dictionary definition Jessy169 Jul 2013 #40

Actually, he's looking at the governments military organization definition. :) n/t Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #54

1828 websters, again, on well regulated jimmy the one Jul 2013 #75

mason out of context jimmy the one Jul 2013 #76

See my last post! nt CokeMachine Jul 2013 #107

Changing horses, & bunkum jimmy the one Jul 2013 #77

oh really? hansberrym Jul 2013 #88

you're not feigning ignorance, HB jimmy the one Jul 2013 #101

try reading, it works for those who do. hansberrym Jul 2013 #113

trainband is a trained band jimmy the one Jul 2013 #121

Why is reading so difficult for you? hansberrym Jul 2013 #126

london militia, trainbands jimmy the one Jul 2013 #133

OMG you really cannot comprehend even the simplest of concepts hansberrym Jul 2013 #135

Stop responding to JTO he's having fun and won't answer ceonupe Jul 2013 #151

Yeah, but I'm having fun too, and his inability to answer is much of the fun n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #154

see you, ceu. jimmy the one Jul 2013 #156

There it is again the ban you because we disagree ceonupe Jul 2013 #157

Curious as to why you quoted Hamilton, when his notions of a select militia jmg257 Jul 2013 #136

Perhaps curiosity will get the best of you, and you will read the thread -or maybe not. n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #140

I have....several times. Curious as to why you would quote Hamlton? jmg257 Jul 2013 #141

see #142 n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #143

Thanks..ill check it out...seems to make sense at 1st read. Nt jmg257 Jul 2013 #144

The Constitution is 4,433 words DWC Jul 2013 #99

Yawn -- lots of words -- yawn!! CokeMachine Jul 2013 #106

1788 1788 1788 1788 1788 1788 1788 jimmy the one Jul 2013 #78

You just caught that? Which makes his whole "unlimited power of the sword" thingie pretty silly, jmg257 Jul 2013 #81

what the hell is the 2nd needed for?? hansberrym Jul 2013 #116

Thank you - "POWERS actually GRANTED TO Congress". jmg257 Jul 2013 #118

Which powers were in the hands of Congress? hansberrym Jul 2013 #122

Congress had powers to provide for organizing/regulating/arming the militias jmg257 Jul 2013 #137

and did Congress have the power to disarm the people? n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #138

My opinion? No they didn't. But i also think the security of the 2nd jmg257 Jul 2013 #139

There you go. So in order to prevent the abuse of the power actually granted hansberrym Jul 2013 #142

Good points on Hamilton...in the numerous times I've read it, jmg257 Jul 2013 #145

cheers! n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #146

too funny hansberrym Jul 2013 #83

foot mouth egg face jimmy the one Jul 2013 #96

Even funnier hansberrym Jul 2013 #109

rawle's corollary jimmy the one Jul 2013 #84

LOL, and yet what Scalia wrote actually had impact ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #93

first draft of 2ndA & tench coxe jimmy the one Jul 2013 #103

See post 106. nt CokeMachine Jul 2013 #108

Chess Check your facts. When did the first Congress Meet? hansberrym Jul 2013 #110

Yawn. ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #112

student driver jimmy the one Jul 2013 #127

LOL, still not getting the lesson I see ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #134

talking turkeys jimmy the one Jul 2013 #148

A Thanksgiving Tale hansberrym Jul 2013 #150

OK, then let's look at what courts have said about the "militia" ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #152

henry colt jimmy the one Jul 2013 #155

Gee, I guess the fact ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #158

best consult your professors, mr student jimmy the one Jul 2013 #159

Maybe you missed this discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #160

XXXXXXX jimmy the one Jul 2013 #161

I'm speechless discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #162

Or just read the document hansberrym Jul 2013 #163

LOL, none are as blind as those that will not see ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #164

Quit -- you'll hurt his feelings. CokeMachine Jul 2013 #165

I thought it was funny... ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #166

screwy driver hansberrym Jul 2013 #153

Schooltime for two students jimmy the one Jul 2013 #167

Lesson One for JTO ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #168

changling jimmy the one Jul 2013 #169

Ah, but you do! ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #170

Lesson #1: Texas and Georgia are different states. n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #172

We should all want the tools to defend our families and country. ileus Jul 2013 #114

I am the militia era veteran Jul 2013 #171

You do understand DWC Jul 2013 #173

Vigilance era veteran Jul 2013 #174